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Fire@Will

Yurei Terror Ship

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Please explain why? I find the heavy BB to be plainly better...

 

The Sokotsu is also a great Battleship! It has almost the same awesome durability and the same assault potential. It is a bit quicker, it lacks the node and a bit of firepower with his turrets, but it get way better rockets at long range. And it is of course 45 points cheaper, which isn't nothing.

 

I see it more like a  low-cost "support" battleship, where the Kaiju is more of a "brawler". Pair the first one with an Arashi and enjoy.

 

I love the Kaiju, but the Sokotsu regularly find a place in my lists and it never disappoint me :)

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The Sokotsu is also a great Battleship! It has almost the same awesome durability and the same assault potential. It is a bit quicker, it lacks the node and a bit of firepower with his turrets, but it get way better rockets at long range. And it is of course 45 points cheaper, which isn't nothing.

 

I see it more like a  low-cost "support" battleship, where the Kaiju is more of a "brawler". Pair the first one with an Arashi and enjoy.

 

I love the Kaiju, but the Sokotsu regularly find a place in my lists and it never disappoint me :)

So basically the kaiju is superior in every regard to the sokotsu at marginally higher cost.

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So basically the kaiju is superior in every regard to the sokotsu at marginally higher cost.

 

Hum... Did you read anything I wrote before?

 

The Kaiju isn't superior in every regard to the Sokotsu. They are very similar, with the Kaiju having better turrets and a node whereas the Sokotsu has better long range rockets. And 45 points isn't "marginal" at all... It's 25% more.

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Nodes are horrendous against almost every enemy, and almost no enemies have a defence against them. Everyone gets free rocket protection (AA).

 

Also the Kaiju is required for battle groups, the sokotsu can't take part in any of them.

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Anyone who knows how valuable 'Tally Ho' is? ;)

 

You mean this card you won't ever be able to play, because your opponent will counter it? Yeah, it is really great... ;)

 

Moreover, taking this battlegroup forces you to buy a Kiyohime (pretty crappy and expensive carrier) and 3 Honshu Cruisers (give me ONE reason not to take the Tanukis instead... maybe the node version but god, 210 points just for some nodes is way too much).

 

Anyway, the original topic was about the Yurei, we should focus on it again or open another discussion.

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Yeah the Tally ho card isn't that great as itl most defiantly be cancelled. Crappy and expensive carrier is way easier to pronounce than kiyohime :lol:

 

Honshu's are a real disappointment for the 'new' type of cruiser, they are just a poor mans tanuki :P

 

Personally I find the terror ship a tad bit expensive for what it is :blink:

 

The only way the battlegroups will get peoples eyebrows raised is if the tally ho card cant be cancelled, but that might be too much :mellow:

 

Give the Eotbs a fleet carrier! :)

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Oh yeah, forgot the vanilla card rules are awful.

We have a house rule that 'only espionage can counter cards' put in ages ago because it made for more exciting play, made the cards usable, gave espionage a reason to exist, and generally cured the problem of people always preventing exciting things from happening.

Of all the excellent rules in this gaming system, the card countering ones are the worst.

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I tried something similar, but I find some of the cards are just to powerful without the ability to cancel, as the rules have been built with that in mind, so I just don't use them anymore :mellow:

Well there's the card that loses you a random card, espionage, and the fact that both sides have the same deck to choose from. Can't get more balanced than that!

It adds a degree of intrigue to the cards too, because you're more wary about only having one veto.

Plus it gives the advantage back to squadrons that other people are poopooing in this thread, thus justifying the time spent by the SG team putting them together! Everyone wins!

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Though I find Lerriano's house rule on game cards intriguing (and look forward to personally testing), I have always seen the cards as a win-win. If your opponent cancels your card, you get a (usually) substantial amount of VP's, if the card goes through.........Mwa ha ha haha ha haha ha ha. Either way it is a win-win;)!

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Moreover, taking this battlegroup forces you to buy a Kiyohime (pretty crappy and expensive carrier) and 3 Honshu Cruisers (give me ONE reason not to take the Tanukis instead... maybe the node version but god, 210 points just for some nodes is way too much).

 

Anyway, the original topic was about the Yurei, we should focus on it again or open another discussion.

I run two Honshu with nodes and find them a lifesaver as my two main oppents are the gf with shield heavy Brits and my boy with Chinese air force...damn those fury gens

As for the ghost ship he is invaulabe to harrasing my other boy's Georgetown's,mmmm the faces he makes as I sail around rb1 in front of him with out a care

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Thanks for getting us back on topic Deco.

I once played the Yurei against my friend with the Australian Fleet. I no longer recall the exact means of how it happened, though I am quite sure it involved his thrice-cursed propensity for rolling a string of sixes, but he ended up boarding and capturing my Yurei using his commodore ability, something along the names of forced compliance. After the ensuing gusts of laughter I was left with the realization the I now had to face my ex-ship with only minor hp damage! It was definitely a demoralizing blow and affected my immediate gameplay by inspiring a burning desire to either retake or destroy the Yurei. Fortunately I regained my head after only a couple activations, recalled the main objective, the mission, and ended up winning the game. Though my friend still claimed psychological victory because the game ended with him still in possession of the Yurei. I brought up this story to tell of my only experience against the Yurei and how I dealt with it. If I had continued chasing after my lost craft, I am sure that not enough resources would have been aimed towards the objective, thus costing me the match.

P.S. @Deco

To once again stray off topic, at what ages did your boys begin playing?

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If you let it board you, the Yurei is  rather strong, but if you board it, it is quite vulnerable. A full unit of corvettes stand a good chance of taking it, or failing that should strip off enough AP that it won't be able to board effectively itself.

 

The Australian 'forced compliance' rule is good fun- the psychological effect of turning a ship against a former owner is often much greater than the actual impact in game, by the time damage, position etc, etc of the prize are accounted for.

 

James

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On 11 December 2015 at 1:22 PM, Bunnahabhain said:

If you let it board you, the Yurei is  rather strong, but if you board it, it is quite vulnerable. A full unit of corvettes stand a good chance of taking it, or failing that should strip off enough AP that it won't be able to board effectively itself.

I run Covenant, with reckless Thales crew, I just bounce off his AA, and Security posts, the remaining AP just aren't enough to do anything of worth. The Yurei is still devastating at RB1 and throwing out Raging fires all over.

It just takes too many resources to kill without a LOT of luck and is quick + powerful enough that u can't just ignore it. My friend has the clear and white resin moulds and uses them both in a 1k match up. I just can't play against it anymore.

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On 3.7.2016 at 3:17 AM, Wolfchild said:

It just takes too many resources to kill without a LOT of luck and is quick + powerful enough that u can't just ignore it. My friend has the clear and white resin moulds and uses them both in a 1k match up. I just can't play against it anymore.

Why should You ever kill it? Yurei has the firepower of a gunship, but costs as much as two. Kill the rest of the fleet instead. If You really want to kill it, use SAW or disruption generators. Generators like tesla, calcification, fury and and the like also ignore Yurei´s phase generator. Boarding with terror tactics dice is also good, because they cannot be killed by AA. Be glad the opponent does not field a battle ship for just a few points more instead. The BB ist as hard to kill but has double firepower. I even think the Yurei is somewhat overpriced now. 150 points was good, but it went up to 160.

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15 hours ago, Lifegiver said:

Why should You ever kill it? Yurei has the firepower of a gunship, but costs as much as two. Kill the rest of the fleet instead. If You really want to kill it, use SAW or disruption generators. And be glad that the opponent does not field a battle ship for just a few points more instead. The BB ist as hard to kill but has double firepower. I even think the Yurei overpriced. 150 points was good, but it went up to 160.

 

If  victory conditions state : kill all mediums, you have to. Second, if you set it up in front, it will be in RB1 & 2 while you other ships are in RB 3 & 4. Ignore it, and you

The Yurei is actually a very tricky pony to balance.

1) It has crazy good defenses while the generator is online.

2) It has nothing special at all if the generator goes offline.

3) But it's firepower is a regular cruiser.

There are several problems. IF enemy has disruption-node generator, AND manages to use it, it's a regular cruiser. In that case, it is definitevely easily neutralized, and it's worth 160points. If however the enemy does not have a disruption-node, or the Japanesse manage to disrupt the disruption-node, it's an completely different ballpark.

But Lifegiver is correct in one part. Normaly you kill the high FB low defensive units first, then work your self up from there.

 

So, the designers risk making it a 'overpowered indestructable medium' if the enemy does not have node generator, whish is overpowered in that sense. But underwhelming if they do. They also risk making it an useless indestructable medium if their firerpower per cost is to low.  But there are ways of taking it out. Boarding is on of them.

 

And, this is exactly why I like DW. The designers dare to do crazy things like this! And it definitively makes things interesting, when people say that it is useless and at the same time overpowered. And it also makes for a good unit which is only good in some strategies. And a good game when there exist counter strategies, ranging from 'ignore it', to 'board it'

 

 

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On 4.7.2016 at 11:54 AM, Grand-Stone said:

 

If  victory conditions state : kill all mediums, you have to. Second, if you set it up in front, it will be in RB1 & 2 while you other ships are in RB 3 & 4. Ignore it, and you

You can always choose the 70% order if You want. If You send the Yurei forward alone, it will take the fire of all weapons that are effective at short range and that are ineffective if You completely stay away. You always have to ignore parts of the enemy fleet, because You cannot sink them all, and You do not have to because victory conditions will apply before. If You leave alive one thing, other elements will stay and do damage. Given Yurei´s low damage potential, ignoring it is a good idea most of the time. If You do not want to ignore it for some reason, there are still many ways around the phase generator (see above).

If the Yurei was too strong, all EoBS players would field it most of the time. In fact most EoBS players do not, because the Yurei has little impact on the game as soon the oppent learns how to cope with it.

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A Yurei close to the enemy has higher damage output than units further away. Ignore the It is such a good defensive unit that it can be sent in front, even blocking LoS to the more precious ships behind. If you manage to force the enemy to fire at the Yurei, that will make all other ships safe.

 

 

 

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On 6.7.2016 at 10:08 AM, Grand-Stone said:

A Yurei close to the enemy has higher damage output than units further away.

I politely have to disagree. Even at close range Yurei´s damage output is significantly lower than other EoBS units at a similar price level at medium range.

On 6.7.2016 at 10:08 AM, Grand-Stone said:

Ignore the It is such a good defensive unit that it can be sent in front, even blocking LoS to the more precious ships behind. If you manage to force the enemy to fire at the Yurei, that will make all other ships safe.

If You send the Yurei forward alone, the opponent shoots his weapons that cause low damage at medium range but high damage at short range at the Yurei. This does not make Your other ships safe, but likely kills the Yurei.

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