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V2 RULES QUESTIONS

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Quick question on weather generator.

 

When exaclty does a model Count as being in the storm effect?

 

What I mean is. If I fire directly at a ship in front of me that has everything but the tip of the bow inside the stormfield, does it Count as inside or outside?

 

Same for a ship shooting out, is it only the weapons inside the effect that suffers or is it all weapons (for example a turret outside the effect)?

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? On the Teleport Generator

 

? What is the "implied" distance between energy portals of the generator.

      I read it as an implied 0" because the table of D6 results indicates that the model "may continue its Movement Segment as normal" [page 98 Digital Edition].

 

? What is the "direction" of any shot that "passes through an Energy Portal" [page 98]

 

I ask these questions because (it came to me whilst driving) I read that if I shoot through a portal at a target that I have LOS on I can "extend" my effective range as the distance between portals is 0"  so that if the portal exists I can fire any weapons that effects only surface targets and calculate the range as distance from attacker to portal centre + other portal centre to target.

     eg Hippasus  generates Teleport energy portals and my Cleomedes fires through it  (7") to a target "via" the other portal (25") making an effective distance of 7 + 24 + 25 = 56" max. (very situational).

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The implied distance is 0", when your model touches it it is sent to the other portal without spending any more movement before moving away from the exit portal.

 

Passes through doesn't mean you can shoot through a portal. It means that if you shoot at a model and there is a portal template between then it passes through that template and the shot is partially blocked.

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I can see that that interpretation can be made, however as I can also make sense that the munitions of a model are "part of a model"  and therefore when the book states when the model "makes contact with the portal MUST move between the two portals" implying that "any part of the model" also translates - and logically any attached to the model that is considered "not at the surface" is disconnected ie CAPs, etc.

 

I can understand the "partially blocked" impairment due to the physical nature of the "portal" is logical in this context.

 

I have yet to see any clarification of this type of shenanigans and wonder whether people have actually considered this aspect and that is why I have asked the question because "fluff" wise those Antarctician "magicians" can do real "Magic".

Playing this type of shenanigans in a match would be "fun" and be a surprise ONLY ONCE.

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"Any technology, sufficiently advanced, is indistinguishable from magic."

I frequently use some of the different template effects for purposes other than originally intended. The teleport templates are great for using as cover, and the half-AD of the dilation field is useful for cutting anti-boarding AA from a target.

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I'll have to "theoretically" discuss with a TO when I attend a tourney next weekend unless I get a more concrete ruling saying expressly "no way are those southern magicians going to be allowed any magic - our world is scientific and logical - NO MAGIC ALLOWED"

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Quick question on weather generator.

 

When exaclty does a model Count as being in the storm effect?

 

What I mean is. If I fire directly at a ship in front of me that has everything but the tip of the bow inside the stormfield, does it Count as inside or outside?

 

Same for a ship shooting out, is it only the weapons inside the effect that suffers or is it all weapons (for example a turret outside the effect)?

I am interested in this answer. I assume it would apply to Dilation fields as well.

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Wow! those generators just became a lot more powerful then. You could have three squadrons in a template. 

 

Alternatively, I assume that you have to have the same requirements for a clear shot to not be affected by a template.

Those are middle and an end point if the weapon/LOS can see them without the target itself blocking. Head-on or crossing the "T" when that applies.

Several ways of saying this:

 

If the TEMPLATE prevents an otherwise clear shot then the shot is affected.

 

Said another way--If a weapon CAN see the required points on a target  (middle and an end), but the Template gets in the way, its effects are applied.

This way the "a ship can't block a LINE OF SIGHT to itself" rules still applies. Normal LOS is calculated and the template is applied

 

Therefore if a ship's middle is covered ( on both sides), then the generator effect will always be applied.

 

For a covered ship attacking--a turret/weapon would need to be completely out of the template. The LOS from a turret/weapon on a ship partially inside a template would have to meet all the same requirements to have a clear shot. (So if the shot LOS to a required spot on a target crosses a template- the template applies even if the weapon is outside the template. Some ships measure from the center rather than a battery. Do so. If it crosses, it applies.

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When you have a turret the LOS and firing arc is measured from the turret. So if a ship is peaking past a blocking ship or terrain you can shoot a target without penalty if the turret meets all the requirements even if the central hard point is blocked.

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Confucius he ctrl+v:

All Attack Dice (AD) from Surface and

Aerial Models firing into, through, or out of a

Storm Template, suffer a -1 ‘To Hit’ modifier.

Models. Not turrets. Models.

Therefore while you're able to poke out from behind models, the same is not applicable in the case of a hurricane.

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The template is the key.  

Otherwise by your rule if the back third of a model is in a storm template and you shoot at the  the 2/3 out of it  you are not affected. You are not shooting into or through the template. But by your interpretation a model touching a storm template in anyway is affected?

 The most sensible is: If the model is in the template it is subject to the POSSIBILITY of the -1 but the if the shot does not go through, into or out of the template, it is not affected.

The model must in a template AND the shot has to go through the template. Otherwise it gets wacky fast.

They mention model because otherwise it would have break down every case.

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As I said we play it so that any ship touching is affected, both ways. The reason is that if you have to check every time you shoot at a ship or in and out of a template you have to check and sometimes discuss. This way is simply faster. The problem is that if you have to check every time you shoot in or out of a template, then you can waste a lot of time doing that. Especially if you don't agree and then you and your opponent have to discuss it until the active ship is moved so that both agree.

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Huh, OK. I just measure normally. Speed being the critical factor there. The cumbersome part could be the open clear LoS. But that is not any different than any shot that may be partially blocked. Those situations always require additional LOS checks, though it is not slow and doesn't have to be perfect. Defender gets the benefit of doubt.

Similar to fixed channel attacks, we allow some fiddling with the final angle of the attacker as the ship drivers could see if they are in line and would adjust accordingly- as long as it isn't excessive. Usually the player is quite good about it. Like distance- some premeasure and then move to be just outside 8" (or just inside 16"), others have a metric eye. Its all part of the game.  For the shot itself, if it crosses the template then it is in play. If it doesn't it doesn't.

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Put it this way. A tornado the size of a city block it hitting your ship. Your aim will definitely be affected.

Well, not all templates are weather (dilation), and for at least the RoF cloud, it doesn't applies inside 8" so more like you are in the eye of a wind shear that is cut for outgoing shots (like the propellors and machine guns in WWI airplanes). Its Sturginium. Applying logic and physical principles will likely fail. They are going for the effect- the science is vague at best.

The way we do it is it straight forward- measure normally. iI the template intersects (with either the shot itself and the open shot check) it applies, if not, it doesn't.

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Well, not all templates are weather (dilation), and for at least the RoF cloud, it doesn't applies inside 8" so more like you are in the eye of a wind shear that is cut for outgoing shots (like the propellors and machine guns in WWI airplanes). Its Sturginium. Applying logic and physical principles will likely fail. They are going for the effect- the science is vague at best.

The way we do it is it straight forward- measure normally. iI the template intersects (with either the shot itself and the open shot check) it applies, if not, it doesn't.

However the rules for storm templates are not vague. Any MODELS firing out of the template.

A fair ruling would be that means central hard points under the storm, regardless of where the weapon is.

And just to put this into context, I'm an ottomam player arguing this. This has direct implications on a core tenet of my defensive abilities.

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