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V2 RULES QUESTIONS

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Are you sure Lord Nat?

What you say implies, that if I play a card and my opponent cancels it, I can then cancel his cancellation with another card and make the first card take its effect. This would seem a bit strange to me.

Ok I seem to have put it into too condensed a version....

 

Player A is Active,  B is the one being shot...

 

Player A gets to play a TAC card

Player B get to Cancel that TAC card if they want

If player A didnt play a TAC card, Player B now gets a chance to

If player A has now B has the choice to cancel.

 

So only ONE TAC card may be played per SQN activation per player, and the active player gets to choice to do it first.  

 

Now the thing I'm trying to remember is If you dont cancel your opponents card can you play one of your own :\

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Since we're now wading the swampy, tangled mire that is TAC, I suppose I'll toss up one of my questions about them. I've seen it implied on the forums but see no indication in the rulebook: Does discarding cards to cancel another card count has "playing" those cards during a phase? If so, what's the train of logic behind that conclusion and why isn't it stated outright in the book?

 

Also, I have a bit of a scenario I'd like addressed: if you and your opponent both declare you're playing cards in the pre-turn TAC segment, and your opponent plays first, and you then espionage their card, does espionage count as your card for the segment, and in turn prevent you from playing your other card as originally intended? On the flip side, If you play a card first, would you then be unable to espionage their card? Also, if the answer to my original question is "yes", alternatively replace espionage with "discarded cards".

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Since we're now wading the swampy, tangled mire that is TAC, I suppose I'll toss up one of my questions about them.

 

1)I've seen it implied on the forums but see no indication in the rulebook: Does discarding cards to cancel another card count has "playing" those cards during a phase? If so, what's the train of logic behind that conclusion and why isn't it stated outright in the book?

 

Also, I have a bit of a scenario I'd like addressed:

2)if you and your opponent both declare you're playing cards in the pre-turn TAC segment, and your opponent plays first, and you then espionage their card, does espionage count as your card for the segment, and in turn prevent you from playing your other card as originally intended? On the flip side, If you play a card first, would you then be unable to espionage their card? Also, if the answer to my original question is "yes", alternatively replace espionage with "discarded cards".

 

1) Yes it does.

 

2) No. If you've both declared you are playing the cards in front of you, you are playing the cards in front of you.

To cancel a card in the pre-turn phase, either:

Put the espionage card down as  your pre-turn card

or

Or with either espionage or other cards, you have to NOT declare you are using any card, so you then free to cancel your opponents, as you haven't played a card for the pre-turn phase.

 

 

Yes, this does lead to all sorts of Psychology and guesswork as to what you opponent is up to with their cards, and if you should cancel thiers, play your own, or neither.

 

James

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So by that logic, you can NEVER cancel a cancel, be it them using Espionage or them using cards to equal the VP value of the card you're playing, 

 

Because if I play a card, and it's getting cancelled, I can only play ONE care per activation, and therefore cannot use either an Espionage from my hand or an equal VP card to cancel.

 

 

Likewise, while it seems like the rulebook is implying you can combine cards up to a total equal value (so I could combine 3 20's to cancel a 60), is this actually NOT the case, as I'm limited to playing only one card, and therefore have to have that one card be equal or greater in order to cancel?

 

 

I was confused as to whether "playing" a card and "using cards to cancel another card" were the same or not, but it got cleared up.

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So by that logic, you can NEVER cancel a cancel, be it them using Espionage or them using cards to equal the VP value of the card you're playing, 

 

Because if I play a card, and it's getting cancelled, I can only play ONE care per activation, and therefore cannot use either an Espionage from my hand or an equal VP card to cancel.

 

 

Likewise, while it seems like the rulebook is implying you can combine cards up to a total equal value (so I could combine 3 20's to cancel a 60), is this actually NOT the case, as I'm limited to playing only one card, and therefore have to have that one card be equal or greater in order to cancel?

 

 

I was confused as to whether "playing" a card and "using cards to cancel another card" were the same or not, but it got cleared up.

Correct, you can't cancel a cancelation

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Cool - but when you are attempting to cancel the first player's card can you actually combine the value of two or more cards to do so?

I.e. You can only "play" once but that "play" may be of more than one card when you are attempting to cancel?

Cheers

Andy

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Yes you can.

 

To Cancel a TAC played by an opponent, a player must sacrifice a card or a combination of cards of an equal or higher Victory Points cost than the TAC that is being played.

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It says, quite explicitly, on page 83, "to cancel a TAC...a player must sacrifice a Card or combination of Cards of an equal or higher Victory Points cost than the TAC that is being played.".

 

After some of my asinine questions I'm starting to feel some sympathy for James now!


Edit: Ninja'd whilst taking the kids to summer school!

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It may bear reminder that the cancelled card DOES NOT count as VP's for the other fellow, only the card(s) doing the cancelling as they become VP's for the player whose card was just cancelled. The played card only counts as VP's for the other fellow if it goes through.

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This was brought up during a game, 

 

as indirect fire is a firing option, can a model/squadron elect to fire indirectly even if there is no intervening terrain or models to block line of sight? 

 

Was used to counter act the effects of a cloud generator, and with four spotting tokens, be able to hit on 4+ 

 

To me felt very cheese d**kery and taking the rule out of context, but the rule does not completely state that you must NOT have line of sight.

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This was brought up during a game, 

 

as indirect fire is a firing option, can a model/squadron elect to fire indirectly even if there is no intervening terrain or models to block line of sight? 

 

Was used to counter act the effects of a cloud generator, and with four spotting tokens, be able to hit on 4+ 

 

To me felt very cheese d**kery and taking the rule out of context, but the rule does not completely state that you must NOT have line of sight.

 

 

Perfectly legitimate.  If you've used at least 4 spotting models, or probably considerably more with average dice, and therefore used several activations to build up those spotting tokens, a minor reward of a net +1 to hit is in order.

 

Clearly, if the target has been spotted that many times, it has multiple observers  correcting fall of shot against it, so some of them can see though the gaps in the Cloud generator at any given point in time, and so the generator isn't enough to hide it effectively.

 

Don't forget, Spotting markers are removed at the end of a turn.

 

James

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On a related note IDF note.

 

A target is out in the open and a squad elects to fire indirectly anyway.  Can they call a Generator Strike?

 

The target is in the open, but it is also being fired on indirectly.

 

 

Yes, this is just me trying to get some use out of the KoB Commodore ability.

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On a related note IDF note.

A target is out in the open and a squad elects to fire indirectly anyway. Can they call a Generator Strike?

The target is in the open, but it is also being fired on indirectly.

Yes, this is just me trying to get some use out of the KoB Commodore ability.

Generator strikes cannot be called with indirect fire

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I looked through the rules on Generator Strike in D1 and indirect Fire in C4 could not find anything prohibiting IDF.

 

You'd get an additional minus one for the generator strike and you are already essentially minus one at best on IDF so you'd need three successful spotting attempts to get to 4,5 red 6 on a generator strike which is a lot of spotting attempts. Particularly in the naval side, there may quite well not be six units with the spotter MAR within 32".

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I looked through the rules on Generator Strike in D1 and indirect Fire in C4 could not find anything prohibiting IDF.

 

You'd get an additional minus one for the generator strike and you are already essentially minus one at best on IDF so you'd need three successful spotting attempts to get to 4,5 red 6 on a generator strike which is a lot of spotting attempts. Particularly in the naval side, there may quite well not be six units with the spotter MAR within 32".

That's because it's in section D2 with the rest of the criteria for a generator strike... (It must be an external generator on a ship in the open, IDF doesn't use the LOF rules so the target can't be counted as in the open)

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Can a turret link with a bombard when both are primaries? 

 

Bombards are not classified as "Specialized weapons" and I could not find anything prohibiting primary bombards linking with other primaries without. Just differences on terms of IDF.

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Can a turret link with a bombard when both are primaries? 

 

Bombards are not classified as "Specialized weapons" and I could not find anything prohibiting primary bombards linking with other primaries without. Just differences on terms of IDF.

 

 

Yes, assuming there is not some other condition or MAR in  play - i.e. one is a tesla weapon and the other is not.

 

So, a Normal Bombard (P) and other gunnery (P) can link.

 

As you say, if you wish to fire IDF at this point, differing to hit numbers and allowed range bands may come up.

 

James

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Yes, assuming there is not some other condition or MAR in  play - i.e. one is a tesla weapon and the other is not.

 

So, a Normal Bombard (P) and other gunnery (P) can link.

 

As you say, if you wish to fire IDF at this point, differing to hit numbers and allowed range bands may come up.

 

James

 

This came up with the Ottoman Kanuni, as it has two fore bombards (P) and a fore main turret (P) that can link together.

 

Direct fire is clear, they can link.

 

Now, let's say that I want to use IDF in RB3. Bombards each have 8 AD, the main turret has 7 AD. How would it work then?

 

If one of the bombards leads, it is 8 + (8+7)/2 = 12 bombard dice + 4 turret dice, each group rolling to hit separately?

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This came up with the Ottoman Kanuni, as it has two fore bombards (P) and a fore main turret (P) that can link together.

 

Direct fire is clear, they can link.

 

Now, let's say that I want to use IDF in RB3. Bombards each have 8 AD, the main turret has 7 AD. How would it work then?

 

If one of the bombards leads, it is 8 + (8+7)/2 = 12 bombard dice + 4 turret dice, each group rolling to hit separately?

 

 

Correct.  Separate out the dice by to hit values if necessary (sufficient spotters could reduce them all to a 4+ to hit), and  add up total hits at the end.

 

James

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Hi,

Question about raging fire markers.

If I have 0 AP on the vessel and several raging fire persistent markers that I'm failed to fix, how much HP will I loose. 1 HP for each marker or just 1 HP.

What happened if have 1AP and 3 raging fire markers that I did't fix? Will I only loose 1 AP, or I loose 1 AP and HP?

Thanks in advance.

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Can IDF ignore the Wave Lurk -1 to hit Modifier with enough Spotting markers?

Yes,

 

IDF with Primarys =6

wave lurker = 7

spotter marker 2 = 6

No 3 = 5

No 4 = 4+

 

If a small then add a 5th spotter marker!

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