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MajorMcNicol

Sorylians vs RSN, 850pts

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Just put this up on the blog!  Game from last Saturday.


This last weekend I played my second game of Firestorm: Armada, facing off against a new opponent's Rense System Navy fleet.  It was fun, and a closer game than the final battle log would suggest.  Randy also generously offered me some extra Hawk Flight Widgets after the game, which I find exceptionally useful for keeping the models on their flight stands.  It was almost my first chance to use my new star mat from D'stone Art, which was awesome.


0fsagame2sorrsn.jpg?w=538


Background


The initial Dindrenzi push into Sorylian space was devastating for the Collective, as the compartmentalized, defensive spheres were unable to individually stand up to the amassed Zenian League war fleets.  As the war went on, forces were consolidated among the beleaguered Alliance of Kurak signees.  Even the cold-blooded Sorylians changed their defensive strategy, bringing in the reserve fleets of distant spheres to support the developing front.  The counter-attack stalled the Zenian League forces across much of Collective space, providing time for further reinforcements to be brought forward.  Along this not-so-stable line, many Sorylian planets - some largely untouched by the Dindrenzi or Relthozan advance in their conquering haste - were the focus of rescue attempts by Collective fleets.  The site of this battle was a system including one such planet, Kerdan II; a cold world (at least by Sorylian standards) being slowly terraformed by Collective Engineers to suit Sorylian populations.  The Kerdan system boasted significant mineral and metallic value, the system full of asteroids of all sizes - including a very large, semi-spherical planetoid orbiting Kerdan II but devoid of any atmosphere.


As the new front against the Zenian League ebbed and flowed, the Collective was able to tow a new Phalanx-class battlestation to the vicinity of the planet.  A reserve fleet from the galactic east of the Collective was also stationed in the system to prepare for further action against the Dindrenzi aggressors and their allies.  Little did the newly arrived defenders know that an elite enemy fleet was closing in on the system, but a spur of a much wider Zenian offensive occurring all across the Storm Zone.....


Fleets


The combined defensive fleet consisted of a new, powerful Phalanx-class battle station, made nigh-impregnable with improved weapon bracing, advanced shielding, and expanded close-range defensive systems.  The reserve fleet was of an older generation, but was in top operating condition.  The Swordbreaker class battleship - carrying the flag of the highest ranking military officer in the system - was a redoubtable weapons platform, retrofitted not so long ago with expanded shielding capacity, improved drives for normal space propulsion, and substantially increased armor on the weapon decks.  In support were four long-serving Skyhammer-class cruisers - true mainstays of the Collective fleets - upgraded long ago with significant energy shielding, backed up by a full-strength squadron of Scythe class frigates.  The reserve fleet also brought with it a single damaged Scythe, its propulsion systems damaged during a brief encounter with raiders in transit.  The plan was to use this damaged Scythe as a source of replenishment parts and ammunition for the squadron of its compatriots, but upon receiving intelligence that an enemy fleet was heading in-system, the damaged frigate was delivered new crew and supplies and pressed into service as an escort for the admiral's battleship.  Its cannon - calibrated to a short but fiercely wide arc - would be of great service defending the flagship from enemy torpedoes and boarders.


The attacking fleet proved to be a respectable armada from the fearsome Rense System Navy.  In the galactic vicinity of Kerdan "policing" Relthozan assets, the RSN fleet decided to strike out at the gathering Sorylian forces by Kerdan II, hoping to catch them unawares and land a resounding blow.  The RSN assets that folded into the outer reaches of Kerdan included a trio of Bulwark-class frigates and another trio of Phoenix-class destroyers.  These were led by the twin giants of a Spectre class battleship and a formidable Banshee-class dreadnought, both advanced models with superior maneuvering engines and advanced shielding.  It was a fleet to be respected - a fleet to be feared.


1fsagame2sorrsn.jpg?w=538


The Battle


The Sorylian cruisers deployed on the far left of the battle line, while the battleship and battle station deployed in the very center.  On the far right, the frigate squadron deployed behind Kerdan II, ready to flank right and swing around the planet.  Opposite the Scythes, however, were the Bulwarks, poised menacingly forward.  The Spectre battleship and Phoenix destroyers were set across from the Sorylian admiral's flagship, while next to Kerdan II's irregular moon the fearsome bi-prow hull of the RSN dreadnought was aimed directly at the Skyhammers.


2fsagame2sorrsn.jpg?w=538


The RSN's experience and training payed off, and they were able to make the first move.  The opening of the battle saw lots of positioning, as the capital ships of the RSN moved slowly forward, unleashing considerable firepower at range that was largely fought off with shielding.  For their part the Sorylians moved forward as fast as they could manage, equally unable to damage their opponents at range.  As the fleets closed in distance, both sides were able to inflict lasting impressions on their enemy's hulls.  Ranged fire from the Broadsword and the Phalanx took their toll on the destroyers and eventually the enemy battleship, which suffered massive damage from a close range broadside from the Sorylian flagship (17 hits!).


6fsagame2sorrsn.jpg?w=538


As the destroyers took irreparable damage and were reduced to a single functioning vessel, the Sorylian cruiser squadron and Banshee dreadnought went head to head in the far west.  This shootout saw no cruisers destroyed, but all damaged, and the massive dreadnought merely scratched.  A somewhat-successful boarding action against the Banshee did manage to reduce its fore guns, however.  The cruisers passed the dreadnought as they both turned around the planetoid, albeit in opposite directions.


3fsagame2sorrsn.jpg?w=538


In the far east the frigate squadrons approached each other at full speed, the Scythes slightly damaging the enemy before pulling up to present a full broadside.  Upon completing this maneuver they failed to knock out a single Bulwark.  In return the enemy frigates destroyed the entire Scythe squadron in an impressive display of firepower.  After the multiple rounds of targeted main gun volleys that took the Scythes out of action, the Bulwarks turned to assist the Spectre battleship.


4fsagame2sorrsn.jpg?w=538


5fsagame2sorrsn.jpg?w=538


As the battle raged, the center became a swirling melee.  The Sorylian Swordbreaker lined up a well-executed double broadside on the two largest enemy vessels, shattering the opposing battleship while damaging the dreadnought.  The battle station delivered long-range support as the Skyhammers came about on one side and the RSN frigates closed in from the other.  A boarding assault from the Sorylian flagship failed to capture the remaining RSN destroyer, while the burning RSN fleet managed to heavily damage the Swordbreaker.  Its point defense network long knocked out, the Collective admiral relied heavily on the supporting defensive fire of its attached makeshift escort.  This brave ship however was soon obliterated by the dying RSN battleship before it, too, fell to scatter cannon and torpedo.


7fsagame2sorrsn.jpg


As the Skyhammers closed the distance and the Spectre burned and limped away, the final blows were struck.  The combined Sorylian fire destroyed the last destroyer before causing the dreadnought to go critical, its mighty hull perforated in hundreds of places.  The RSN admiral lost, the final Bulwark was struck down by the man-handled cruiser squadron.


9fsagame2sorrsn.jpg?w=538


The Sorylians had carried the day, but at great cost - losing, in effect, six frigates and receiving heavy, perhaps irreparable, damage across the rest of the fleet.  Only the Phalanx station remained unscathed, as it continued on its orbit around Kerdan II.


Final Battlelog: +18 Sorylians to -8 RSN (or +15 / -7 at time of victory)


8fsagame2sorrsn.jpg?w=538


Thanks very much to Randy for the great game, and to Brian for taking pictures (and the ride)!


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Very nice game!

 

Did you like the station?  I've always had a hard time figuring out how to incorporate one in a list.

 

Well fought though, and cool looking fleet!  I have a similar idea for my new V2 Lizards.

 

Thanks!  I do like the station a good bit, although it never makes its points back.  Really its primary worth seems to be psychological.  My opponent feared it and really shied away from it, even though it only put a few points of damage on his fleet (let's say....6 in the entire game).  So I usually just put it in the center of my line and march it forward, moving it 1" and turning it to maximize firing arcs.  If I had another battleship it would be a tough choice to choose which to take instead of the Phalanx.

 

 

I like the paint scheme on them thar space lizards.

 

Thanks!  Like many things, up close they don't look as good ;) but what can I say, painting white sucks 

 

Fantastic report!  Well done.

 

Don't forget to post the results in the Warlog thread.

 

Already up there!  And thanks!

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I suspect that the BattleStation did more damage than we are being led to believe.  (direct and indirect)

 

Simply stated, if a DN and a BB went up against a composite force of a Sorylian BattleStation and a BB, I find it hard to believe that the role of the BattleStation is not elevated above merely doling a few Hull Points of damage and sponging up a number of hits. A psychological weapon it is, and it can be, but I just have trouble understanding the true effects of the BattleStation since the Sorylians clearly "won" the battle versus a tough, well designed Dreadnought + BB.

 

Let me be clear and state that I am not wishing to attack the messenger, nor am I wanting to split hairs over this report and dissect each ships' movement/targeting or such. This report, in my mind, further solidifies the overbearing abilities (which might have been "psychological" as well in this battle, sure) of Battle Stations in games under 1,200pts.

 

Call it what you will, but this game is even more "proof" that BattleStations are undercosted. (even though I don't find the Sorylian BattleStation offensively overly capable at long ranges due to its weapons layout) 

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I suspect that the BattleStation did more damage than we are being led to believe.  (direct and indirect)

 

Simply stated, if a DN and a BB went up against a composite force of a Sorylian BattleStation and a BB, I find it hard to believe that the role of the BattleStation is not elevated above merely doling a few Hull Points of damage and sponging up a number of hits. A psychological weapon it is, and it can be, but I just have trouble understanding the true effects of the BattleStation since the Sorylians clearly "won" the battle versus a tough, well designed Dreadnought + BB.

 

Let me be clear and state that I am not wishing to attack the messenger, nor am I wanting to split hairs over this report and dissect each ships' movement/targeting or such. This report, in my mind, further solidifies the overbearing abilities (which might have been "psychological" as well in this battle, sure) of Battle Stations in games under 1,200pts.

 

Call it what you will, but this game is even more "proof" that BattleStations are undercosted. (even though I don't find the Sorylian BattleStation offensively overly capable at long ranges due to its weapons layout) 

 

 

So, to summarize your point: ignoring all the facts in the presented case, this case supports your thesis that is the opposite of the facts presented?

 

Man, I have no idea what you're talking about.  I like the phalanx a lot, I've used it in every game I've played, I don't plan to stop using it, but it plainly did less than 5 HP of damage in this game.  Was it the dice?  That's always a possibility.  But in this game, as it was played, as it happened, it did not do a lot of damage.  (It also, as noted above, was completely unscathed at the end of the game.)  

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Call it what you will, but this game is even more "proof" that BattleStations are undercosted. (even though I don't find the Sorylian BattleStation offensively overly capable at long ranges due to its weapons layout) 

3...

2..

1.

and that's it, you're on my ignore list.

Zak

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So, to summarize your point: ignoring all the facts in the presented case, this case supports your thesis that is the opposite of the facts presented?

 

Man, I have no idea what you're talking about.  I like the phalanx a lot, I've used it in every game I've played, I don't plan to stop using it, but it plainly did less than 5 HP of damage in this game.  Was it the dice?  That's always a possibility.  But in this game, as it was played, as it happened, it did not do a lot of damage.  (It also, as noted above, was completely unscathed at the end of the game.)  

 

Ok, we are talking over one another here.

Please re-read my post above, especially the part where I said I am not wishing to attack the messenger in any manner.

 

 

I am saying that the BattleStation's abilities seem to have been understated.  (I can't see a single BB taking on an RSN Dreadnought and RSN BB single-handedly and coming out on top....)

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No Sky, you are calling him a liar when he says what the battleship did THIS GAME.  He's not talking about balance or anything else.  You're just bringing your dislike of the Sorylian BB into another thread and refusing to believe it might have done something useful and refusing to believe his report.

 

Which is rude as hell, I might add, however you might feel about it.  You can present all the opinions you want, but when someone presents an actual report on how a fight went, and your immediate response is "it must have worked out differently" then you're the one out of line.

 

You bolding the "well designed" bit is the over the top proof.  We get it, you don't like the Sorylian BB which is a poorly designed mess to you, and you probably even agree with Calmdown that the RSN is totally awesome.  It's impossible, in your mind, for the Sorylian BB to have been critical to winning a fight against the RSN, so this report put some serious cognitive dissonance into your brain.  Tough. 

 

Keep it to the Sorylian threads at least, not question someone else's battle report!  After all, what do you think of people who bring their pet gripe into every possible thread, no matter how tangential?

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Oh, and exactly WHO is the one who dismisses anything that doesn't agree with his opinion?  I'll give you a hint:  it's the guy who immediately assumed someone filed a false or bad battle report where a Sorylian BB did well.  It didn't conform to your opinion on how the battle would have gone, so you immediately assumed something else happened.  So the guy guilty of dismissing things that don't agree with his opinion isn't Zak.

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Oh, and exactly WHO is the one who dismisses anything that doesn't agree with his opinion? I'll give you a hint: it's the guy who immediately assumed someone filed a false or bad battle report where a Sorylian BB did well. It didn't conform to your opinion on how the battle would have gone, so you immediately assumed something else happened. So the guy guilty of dismissing things that don't agree with his opinion isn't Zak.

If you are not careful, you will join me on the "bully" list.

:D

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I'm declaring shenanigans.

 

Sorylians not only won, but won convincingly, against RSN no less! This outcome has shattered my perception of reality and places the Sorylian's perpetual recipient of the FSA 'Thanks for coming' award into jeopardy! OP clearly cheated.

 

(Subtext: great report, good job lizards. That was some strategic use of the Sory BB, really capitalised on those broadsides).  

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I think it's pretty clear the Sorylians got at least somewhat lucky.  Not only did MajorMcNicol highlight some nice rolls they got, but pretty much any time you bring a 200 point model (like the station) that does very little in the battle, and still win convincingly, well of course the rest of the fight tilted your way.  It's the immediate assumption that something else must have occurred that set me off (and it's not even my fight).

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Obviously my English escapes me and I'm not speaking English today.

 

There are so many layers that I must peel back in addressing the confusion that is currently being growing on this thread is many. Let me see if I can give it a shot.

 

 

Guys, I am not calling anyone a liar. Period.   (talk about being blindsided)  :huh:

 

I honestly don't understand where anyone is getting that from. I don't understand where MajorMcNicol is getting that, assuming that he believes I am calling him a liar, nor did I attempt to paint him as someone who is presenting a one-sided story for the some unfathomable gain. He gamed a battle, posted a bat rep, and those who read it (as I did) form their own opinions. I formed my own opinion as well, as others I'm sure did. (am I the only one who holds an opinion?)

 

However, I am not calling him a liar or someone who is furthering an agenda. 

 

I've played Sorylians and I have a good understanding of the fleet and the tactics that the race uses. Add to this the 4 different battles that I have witnessed 

 

When I stated above 

 

 

 

 

No Sky, you are calling him a liar when he says what the battleship did THIS GAME.  He's not talking about balance or anything else.  You're just bringing your dislike of the Sorylian BB into another thread and refusing to believe it might have done something useful and refusing to believe his report.

 

What are you talking about??? 

 

I stated, as I began my post, that the BattleStation did more damage than we could imagine. Why? Because a single BB, in combination with a 3-ship cruiser squadron, cannot take on and defeat an RSN DN and RSN BB. Why do I state that? In my experience, I have never seen a Sorylian BB accomplish 

 

I understand that the MajorMcNicol was the one who gamed the battle, I understand it went down as it went down. My only point of contention was that the battle station, during the heat of combat and record keeping and gaming, might have played a larger role than posted by MajorMcNicol.  (note; that is not equivalent to calling someone a liar. Not in my book and not in the English department in most colleges) 

 

 

You bolding the "well designed" bit is the over the top proof.  We get it, you don't like the Sorylian BB which is a poorly designed mess to you, and you probably even agree with Calmdown that the RSN is totally awesome.  It's impossible, in your mind, for the Sorylian BB to have been critical to winning a fight against the RSN, so this report put some serious cognitive dissonance into your brain.  Tough. 

 

The RSN ships are well designed. The RSN DN is well designed. The RSN BB is more than capable of handling a Sorylian BB, and has done so in at least one bat rep on these forums.  (ask an RSN player about the abilities of their ships and you might get a counter opinion that might not follow your own opinion... it's possible)

 

And yes, there is certainly a large amount of cognitive dissonance in my brain because the Sorylian BB can NOT commonly do this. I know because I have tried, against various races, and have failed. Unless I am a 100% idiot (which is a high probability, since I am obviously itching to pick a fight with persons that I haven't met on a gaming site), I just can't see how a battle station didn't contribute more than it did; that is such a high level of uncommon belief as a Sorylian player that I must degrade the capabilities of the BB due to my own experience. (and thus, in my mind, the battle station must have had a larger role than the poster recounts.... remember, he is gaming and is in the heat of combat, in the thick of it.... is it possible that he might have placed a higher emphasis on the abilities of the mobile fleet as compared to the battle station?)

 

But Jesus Christ, I am not calling him a liar.  :mellow:

 

 

 

Lastly, just when did some of us come up with this "holier than thou" attitude?

 

I was told to go to hell in a post and nothing came of it.... I was told that my opinion didn't matter in a post and nothing came of it.... Now, I express an opinion that a given composition of ships aren't commonly capable of taking on and defeating an enemy force as presented in this bat rep (in my experience, thus the missing element - the BattleStation, must have lent more support to the battle), and what happens next? ..... Incredible.  :blink:

 

Then we have zaknafan, who out of nowhere comes on and quotes a single line and attacks my opinions of battle stations, since he has continually argued that battle stations are "well balanced," decides to ignore me. Wait, what?  I am lost as to.... well, he has decided that someone who holds a counter opinion must be ignored.... (I should have told him that I didn't care what he said first...)  Baffling.

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I think it's pretty clear the Sorylians got at least somewhat lucky.  Not only did MajorMcNicol highlight some nice rolls they got, but pretty much any time you bring a 200 point model (like the station) that does very little in the battle, and still win convincingly, well of course the rest of the fight tilted your way.  It's the immediate assumption that something else must have occurred that set me off (and it's not even my fight).

 

Anything is possible. 

 

Did the Sorylians get lucky? Of course they did and that is pretty much stated by the author of the thread. (Im not attacking that nor am I attacking MajorMcNicol, nor am I calling him a liar in any given way)

 

Did he have some good dice rolls? Absolutely possible, and again, he stated so in his bat rep. 

 

Is he a good tactician? Most definitely.... And Im sure that he can crush me like a grape if we ever went head-to-head.... But I was never attacking him or his gaming.  (this is going to become a crazy set of arguments based on circular logic.... I'm too stupid to engage in a comprehension argument as I will always lose due to my lack of writing skills.... )

 

 

However, what did set you off?..... I have never seen so much emotion from you aimed at anyone on these forums. Ever. 

 

So what was the cause of your anger reddwarf?  (You are probably having poll withdrawal and need another Sky poll)  :D

 

And what is equally baffling to me is that not even 2 weeks ago you agreed with me, as well as 2 other posters, that battle stations are underpriced by a certain percentage (I believe you posted something along the lines of 10-20%, though I may be wrong as I didn't commit that to memory), yet here you are excluding my angle of argument (that battle stations are undercosted) and attacking my opinions and my stance on the abilities of the Sorylian BB, and then saying that I am calling him (MMN) a liar......    -_-

 

 

Again reddwarf, I have yet to see the same level of productivity out of a Sorylian force that had an equivalent composition of force: A BB, squadron of medium cruisers, and a squadron of 5 frigates..... unless you include a battle station, which is more than capable of taking on a DN single-handedly and give it a run for its money.... 

 

I had no intent to hurt, call names, or assault anyone over this. I try to compartmentalize my thoughts (concerning the BB and its faults), but some posters seem to relish an opportunity to take a swipe at others and "get back at them" for holding said opinions. 

 

 

And oh my reddwarf, I thought we were buddies. I'm hurt. 

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Let me be clear and state that I am not wishing to attack the messenger, nor am I wanting to split hairs over this report and dissect each ships' movement/targeting or such. This report, in my mind, further solidifies the overbearing abilities (which might have been "psychological" as well in this battle, sure) of Battle Stations in games under 1,200pts.

 

I had to go back and post my quote so that I can be sure what I stated.

 

And as I reread this portion of my post, I clearly see it as the following:

> I'm not attacking the messenger, the poster, nor calling him a liar

> I'm not arguing the flow of battle by both sides and their ship movements or targeting, or some such

> The Battle Station did have a role in the battle, and its role (in my opinion) was larger than I believe it had since in my experience, a Sorylian BB w/cruiser support cannot comfortably take on a heavy force such as an RSN DN and BB without heavy support from another element... and in my opinion, that must have been furbished by the battle station.

 

 

While I can certainly be wrong in this instance and in other instances, I don't believe that my postings above qualify for someone being placed on an ignore list or being called a liar. I cannot even begin to imagine this, and even more so when you go read some of the most heated debates on these forums that we have witnessed in the last few months.

 

 

 

Man.... I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing paint.    :D

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Unbelievable.

I do agree battle stations in general are too good for their points. Which this thread is not about. And now your argument is that he must have just not written down everything about the battle correctly? So he's not lying, just incompetent. And all because YOUR experience with the Sorylian BB represents the only possible reality apparently. I've had sex with my wife and you didn't see it and its not in your experience, but I assure you she exists and it happened.

You just don't get it, do you? I like you Sky, I really do. But you have abandoned all pretense of objectivity when it comes to the Falx. To the point where someone posts a battle report where it does well, and your immediate assumption is that something else simply must have happened, because the idea that it actually won a battle apparently strains your brain past its breaking point. You emphasize in your post how other ships are well designed, bringing your gripe about the Falx into a thread where it is completely utterly irrelevant. That's what set me off. This is a battle report. No one gives a flying f--- about which ships are balanced or not in this thread, but you just can't let it go. Same thing that drives me batty with CJ--90% of his comments include that wings or RB1 Terrans suck. Give it a flipping rest, instead of posting passive aggressive BS about well designed ships and then pretending you weren't being offensive or trying to start an argument.

Step back a second and ask yourself this: are you so insecure in your opinion of the Falx that when it comes up in a thread completely unrelated to balance that you must not only immediately reject that it did well in your own head, but rush to post something so that everyone else knows there must be some mistake?

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Unbelievable.

I do agree battle stations in general are too good for their points. Which this thread is not about. And now your argument is that he must have just not written down everything about the battle correctly? So he's not lying, just incompetent. And all because YOUR experience with the Sorylian BB represents the only possible reality apparently. I've had sex with my wife and you didn't see it and its not in your experience, but I assure you she exists and it happened.

 

No reddwarf, I am not arguing that he didn't write everything down. I wish I had better writing skills to write wheat I think or how to approach some topics. clearly, this is a great example of it.

 

 

 

Step back a second and ask yourself this: are you so insecure in your opinion of the Falx that when it comes up in a thread completely unrelated to balance that you must not only immediately reject that it did well in your own head, but rush to post something so that everyone else knows there must be some mistake?

 

100% possible.

My argument was of..... never mind man. I just can't even see straight right now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

MajorMcNicol-

I will never post in any of your threads, nor argue any matter with you.

And I never called you a liar or said your were incompetent in any given way. 

 

I am truly sorry for all of this.  :mellow:

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Gentlemen, lets all please calm down and take a quick breather.  Plus if things are going to get nasty, lets at least do it through private messages so no one gets offended or flagged. 

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The irony is if I didn't like Sky so much, the things he types about the Falx wouldn't bother me nearly as much. It's like a blind spot. Of course I'm sure he thinks I'm an ok guy except for the stick up my behind about the Falx.

We're probably both right.

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