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Need Help "Getting It" - Terrans are RB1 Brawlers?

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I'm sure I'm looking at this FAR too simply, but since I'm new to the game, I'm hoping to get a better understanding.  After all, when I can truly appreciate my strengths, I can be a much more effective Admiral.  Seems the general consensus is that Terrans are tailor built to get close and start swinging at RB1.  So far I've only dealt with the BfV box set, so my comparison is going to be limited, but I'm looking at Terran Tyrant vs. Dindrenzi Praetorian.  For arguments sake, I'll assume no upgrades (which is nice for comparison, as it means 200 points vs 200 points).  A couple things immediately jump out at me:

  • The Tyrant is quite a bit better in RB2 than in RB1.  Assuming I'm Linking my Turrets and Broadsides, it's 15 AD at RB2 and only 10 AD at RB1.  HUGE difference there...
  • The Praetorian beats the Tyrant at RB1, throwing 11 AD with its Gun Rack.  To be fair, the Gun Rack has to point one way or the other, but in a 1v1, it's better.

I *think* I'm probably under-valuing Shields and Weapon Shielding, as with the Praetorians complete lack of shields, a couple points of damage at long range isn't out of the question.  Anyway, the point I'm trying to get to...  Why are Terrans RB1 brawlers?  I appreciate the toughness, but why not stick to RB2 and brawl from there, as it appears that the majority of ships have more firepower from there?  Thanks for helping out the noob!

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The Tyrant is in spirit what the Razorthorn was in v1.5, a RB2 brawler.  The change-over to v2.0 refocused the Apollo and the Titan, our other battleship and dreadnought respectively, into RB1 brawlers.  The other thing that pushes Terrans into the RB1 brawler category is the wide access to beam weapons on our ships, which get to reroll 1's if the target is in RB1 and the attack consists entirely of beams.  That being said, our torpedos like having targets at RB4 for the most part.

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I don't see a major difference in the RB1/RB2 area for the Titan/Apollo. Especially not enough to say they are significantly weighted towards one or the other. Honestly, if you are going maximum dice pool, they are "killers" in RB1.5, that sweet spot where the turret is RB1 but the Fixed Fore is RB2.

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I don't see a major difference in the RB1/RB2 area for the Titan/Apollo. Especially not enough to say they are significantly weighted towards one or the other. Honestly, if you are going maximum dice pool, they are "killers" in RB1.5, that sweet spot where the turret is RB1 but the Fixed Fore is RB2.

After approach, the Fixed Fore Nukes become a weapon of opportunity. I would rather line up the broadsides and maximize the Beam coherency effect at RB1 while linked with the turret.

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I honestly like making a tiered gunline.  Battleship/Dreadnaught goes in hot and hard, getting in close, cruisers form second line, hammering away from there, with Destroyers supporting from past them, and torpedo fire coming in from beyond them.  Makes for a piss.  Miserable.  Beatdown for the poor opponent.  :D

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Well...

The more i had read the Rules ans specail abilitys and so... the lesser i like the terrans anymore...

 

All that "Good parts" like the Shields, weaponshielding an so on are just to make the bad parts not SOOOO bad. But they are still very bad.

1. The Beam weapons: ONLY hat it specail ability on RB1.

2. the Nukear Weapons: when the enemy is not "cuddling"  with his Frigats or crusers, than it is USLES! IT MAKE NOT EVEN A HAZARD MARKER!

 

When i compare it with the spacial ability of the other race, i feel betrayed. All terran abilitys are just to make me hope, that my ships dont get so mutch damaged.

 

 

It is not nice, when you have a good fleet, that could match the others , but then the designer decide to make  your Fleet. a joke. It feels like GW politic. "Oh, so many like that Race? Time to **** them up, so they go to a other race."

I will test the Terrans this Weekend...

But i think for me there are only two Options: Chance to Dindrenzi or leaf the hole System behind.

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Well...

The more i had read the Rules ans specail abilitys and so... the lesser i like the terrans anymore...

All that "Good parts" like the Shields, weaponshielding an so on are just to make the bad parts not SOOOO bad. But they are still very bad.

1. The Beam weapons: ONLY hat it specail ability on RB1.

2. the Nukear Weapons: when the enemy is not "cuddling" with his Frigats or crusers, than it is USLES! IT MAKE NOT EVEN A HAZARD MARKER!

When i compare it with the spacial ability of the other race, i feel betrayed. All terran abilitys are just to make me hope, that my ships dont get so mutch damaged.

It is not nice, when you have a good fleet, that could match the others , but then the designer decide to make your Fleet. a joke. It feels like GW politic. "Oh, so many like that Race? Time to **** them up, so they go to a other race."

I will test the Terrans this Weekend...

But i think for me there are only two Options: Chance to Dindrenzi or leaf the hole System behind.

Take a deep breath. It's time to come down off the ledge. :D

In actual play, after turn two, it is very hard not to get small and medium ships to bunch up while attempting to line up ships with fixed fore weapons for an attack.

As to the designer comment, these ships were tested and edited by a Beta Test group of 40+ unpaid gamers that were in no way compensated. No one had an agenda for profits(at least I didn't get any).

One more thing, the Terrans have a real identity and play style. A lot of players like it, you may not agree with it, but your experience and mileage may vary.

Oh, welcome to the forum! :D

We are glad to help and answer any and all questions.

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Terrans are FAR from a joke. Nukes are brilliant as a psychological weapon, and actually getting to use the coherency effect is a lovely bonus. Beams make your RB1 and 2 threat area wider, and really shine on heavy cruisers and the Apollo - re-rolling 1's in a system that uses exploding dice is a rather powerful ability. 

 

Our shields and weapons shielding make it much more difficult for opponents to simply shave off a point of hull here and there in order to cut our firepower on approach like one would do against Dindrenzi, if you want to hurt our ships, you really need to focus on them. 

 

Oh, and it might have little bearing on rules, but... DAMN, do we have some sexy models!

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It is not nice, when you have a good fleet, that could match the others , but then the designer decide to make  your Fleet. a joke. It feels like GW politic. "Oh, so many like that Race? Time to **** them up, so they go to a other race."

 

ROTFLMAO! :D

 

This is some hilarious stuff here.  Just be forewarned Devalis, I almost got ban-hammered for making GW comparisons about Spartans decisions about the Terrans like this before.
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It's like bizarro universe. Out of all the fleets in the game, I think that Terrans are probably the most well thought out and considered (along with dindrenzi), with obvious strengths and weaknesses. They're durable, short range brawlers (whether that's RB2 or RB1 is dependent on ship). They have best in class for both battleships and frigates, an amazing carrier and everything else is extremely solid.

 

They only have one duff ship, the Aegis, which the beta testers have confessed was a nightmare to balance.

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I think that having ships designed to be RB1 brawlers is great. In a fight between two large ships having a ship designed like that can be a great advantage, because once the ships close up, you essentally force your opponent to make a choice to either

  • break off moving directly away from the apollo, revealing the vulnerable rear arc of his ship to it;
  • continue dancing the RB1 spiral dance in which your ship has the advantage.

Using the drives to maximum TAC card and gravitaional slingshots makes reaching opponent's ships a rather simple matter.

Of course, the access to beam weapons and changes to boarding assault rules make the whole concept much more viable.

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One more thing.  There is a thread in the Battle Reports forum called War Log, which tracks reported battles.  The Terrans have consistently had one of the higher scores of any faction in the game.  Just saying.

 

Second best performers after the Aquans at present! And then only just marginally. 

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Well... My game was... not a good example to test the Terrans... My enemy did have hever heard of stochastics. Nearly every shoot was a krit.

First Shoot, His Aquan Battlehip agains my Razorthorn. Beam don't make damage. But then the Salvo of 8 Torps. 4X6 and the other 4 hit. My PD don't kill enough. Krittable double 1. 5 extra Damage.

So after the FIRST shoot, my battleship get 7 Damage. And so was the hole game... Need to make a other test. >_>

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How did your battle ship get 7 damage from 1 shot? The most damage he could do in one shot without killing you is 6 points of damage (3 x critical which would take him 30 hits total). If he got 4 x critical your ship would have instantly died. 

 

In your example those 4 x 6's + 4 more hits is only 12 hits total, remember each 6 only counts as 2 hit. 12 hits is only just enough to cause a single critical, so 2 hp worth of damage assuming your PD and shields didn't save at least 3 hits worth, in which case it's only 1 hp of damage. 

 

I think you have been calculating hits and damage incorrectly. When you exceed DR, you take 1 HP of damage, when you exceed CR, you take 2 HP of damage. To take more damage your opponent needs to double your CR (so 20 hits for the Apollo) to cause another two, then 30 for another 2. You ignore the 1 HP for DR if CR is reached.

 

The Apollo is easily one of the hardest battleships in the game to hurt, especially against torpedo fire, with good shielding, moderate PD and the option to upgrade to quite good PD. 

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Well he crit and the roll a doubble 1 on the Table. (2d3 Damage.) so he got a +5 Damage to the 2 Damage from the critical hit.

 

Like AndrewChrislieb say seconds ago ;)

 

 

So thats why i don't take this as a example how good the teranns are... Agains this guy, everything is usless. I never see so many dices with a 6... ^^"

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Ah that makes sense, sorry didn't get that first read through, I read that as 1.5 extra damage, didn't realise it was a new sentence. 

 

In that case that's not really a fair example of how good or bad the Apollo is though, that's just really unlucky (or lucky for your opponent) rolling on the critical table. Maybe your opponent is just lucky with the die? 

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