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JJMicromegas

Going from starter box to 1000 pts

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Hello, I have the RoF starter and also picked up the Couronne Carrier, this puts me at about 810 points and I'd like to scale my force up to 1000 pts. I was wondering what would be good options.

 

- New Attack Flotilla - this box is tempting but I'd like some more variety and don't need that many models. Is this a must have?

 

- Toulonne - now that the toulonne can be fielded with three models is this a good option.

 

- Ecuyer + Air ship - my other option was to get some  Ecuyer's and then pick up an airship to win establish air superiority but still have a naval core.

 

I've only played 2-3 games of DW so I am still a relatively new player. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

 

 

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I recommend you to use Toulon and Ecuyer, to take the marseille and magenta away.

Instead of magenta Mk2 use couronne

Instead of magenta Mk1 use tourbillon

Instead of marseille use Toulon and/or Ecuyer

 

I'm currently buying the attack flottilla (still in "prossessing" in spartan shop ^^) because it's for me the real RoF naval starter box:

A real BB with 3 gen and RA included in the price

2 Battlecruisers (even if they're glasscanon there more useful than the Marseille our "pocket cruisers" as I name them)

4 corvette which open the RoF fleet to the boarding game (in addition with the new Toulon)

 

I only used my Magenta an my Marseilles in my first 3 games before discovering the other component of the french navy.  ;)

 

Bienvenue dans les rangs de la Marine Nationale!

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I find always using  Model X and never using model Y in my games is very boring. I like changing lists about.

 

The French list has lots of good units in it, and I wouldn't now write off any of them.

 

Even just looking at the mediums:

The Marseilles don't hit as hard as some cruisers, but 9", with the upgraded surface skimmer rules is fast and  manouverable.  The ability for a naval squadron to move onto land wins games time and time again.

 

The Ecvruyers are slow, but they're cheap and do one job well.

 

The Toulons now hit hard, but they're not cheap, and they are vulnerable.

 

The Voltaires are far too cheap, and highly efficient at sea.

 

The Cherbourg is a glass hammer that specialities in dealing with  large ships. One or two are useful, but they're not cheap, and the more you have, the harder they are to hide.

 

 

If you have a normal starter set and a carrier, I'd get the support box next. It gives you a great range of stuff. Yes, it's more than 1000 points, that allows you to change your lists about freely. Dropping one of the Lyons to field two units of 4 is far better than three units of 3. A well built list normally has as few under strength units as possible.

 

 

Also. in  the future, you can expect that significantly too good/too cheap/too expensive/not good enough units will be brought into line. Building and using a balanced force will serve you much better in the long term

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If you have a normal starter set and a carrier, I'd get the support box next. It gives you a great range of stuff. Yes, it's more than 1000 points, that allows you to change your lists about freely.

 

I agree with the "I like to change units" part.

The Support Flotilla includes a Carrier and 3 Epaulards, so I suppose you are recommending the Battle Flotilla.

I have it, and it has a problem: it includes 2 Toulons. So now I cannot field the 3 Toulons squadron to see if it works for me or is too expensive... on the other hand, it is the only way to get a full squad of Destroyers witout any leftover. IMHO the Battle Flotilla should be redesigned to include 3 Toulons.

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I agree with the "I like to change units" part.

The Support Flotilla includes a Carrier and 3 Epaulards, so I suppose you are recommending the Battle Flotilla.

I have it, and it has a problem: it includes 2 Toulons. So now I cannot field the 3 Toulons squadron to see if it works for me or is too expensive... on the other hand, it is the only way to get a full squad of Destroyers witout any leftover. IMHO the Battle Flotilla should be redesigned to include 3 Toulons.

I'll tell you one thing. I got total of 6 Toulons and never regret it since they released MKII. I had 6 when it was MKI and I was sad at how they functioned. Now my mediums is always 3 Toulons with a lot of my heavies with Toulons attached. I always fielded a minimum of 4 or 5 Toulons in all my games.

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I agree with many of the suggestions in this thread, pick up the toulon blister and attach them. I also agree that you should drop the cruisers because they are lack-luster.

I do not agree about abandoning the battleship. I have used mine many times and it has yet to fail me. adding the connected cruiser will only beef its position in my fleet.

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The Marseilles don't hit as hard as some cruisers, but 9", with the upgraded surface skimmer rules is fast and  manouverable.  The ability for a naval squadron to move onto land wins games time and time again.

 

The Ecvruyers are slow, but they're cheap and do one job well.

 

The Toulons now hit hard, but they're not cheap, and they are vulnerable.

 

The Voltaires are far too cheap, and highly efficient at sea.

 

The Cherbourg is a glass hammer that specialities in dealing with  large ships. One or two are useful, but they're not cheap, and the more you have, the harder they are to hide.

 

 

Also. in  the future, you can expect that significantly too good/too cheap/too expensive/not good enough units will be brought into line. Building and using a balanced force will serve you much better in the long term

 

So  ROF is going to be hit with a massive nerf wrecking ball in DW 2.0 and will have to play with either expensive point models or models which fonction poorly.

 

I should ready myself  to have an over expensive carrier for ROF while all other nations will get boost to theirs by getting combat launch or similar rule. The far to cheap BUT FAR TO FRAGILE Voltaire will cost you to much to worth playing and may get poorer stats. The Vauban!!! Well!!! probably upgraded to irrelevance.

 

Good bye Couronne, Voltaire, Vauban

You'll be crash landing on the shelf from next year on

But please don't blame me

Blame those players who are crying OP.

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Hm, not sure if you don't see things as too dark.

 

First of all: There was a big outcry when the Russians were modified. Then nothing happened for a while and now I think people realize that RC is still brutally strong. When I play French against them, it's always a very close match and that only because my opponent constantly forgets to use his generators.

 

Still: Apart from the fact that half our fleet dies before we shoot once against FSA and probably Covenant, the RoF is still very strong.

  • If all the Carriers get Combat Launch this doesn't make the Couronne a worse vessel, but makes the other carriers actually worthwhile. Most of them have mediocre weapons which they can't even use for at least two out of six turns because they have to cycle TFTs. But even then the Couronne still has the better weapon systems and with the Toulon attachment it can still be very nasty. Plus: Cloud Gen and Retardant Armour. Even if this thing goes up in price by a few points it will still be strong.
  • The Voltaires are very cheap indeed. I don't agree that they are TFT-hunters because a fighter wing will kill those guys with no effort, but the damage they can do is phenomenal. If they go up in price they should be a bit more resilient in my opinion, but maybe the weirdness of obscured models hit on 5 no matter if it's a flying fortress or a medium flier will stop and so give the Voltaires a better option.
  • As for the Vauban: I hardly use it anyway. I don't think it will receive a big nerf since the only thing it does well is annoy the enemy. It's weapon systems are good to hunt mediums, it's cannons suffer from their usual Frenchieness (= being rubbish in everything but RB1 - which means the Vauban can't shoot them at the juicy ground targets anwyway) and most nations have so much boarding power that it doesn't take that much to board. EotBS or RC have so many options to board this thing that half the time it just tries to hide behind the ships in order to stay away from potential boarders. So I don't see the Vauban as big thread on the moment. The biggest effect in my group is the psychological one: "Holy Cow, we will never kill this thing." So they don't even try and don't register that the Vauban does next to nothing in most of the games. Usually, the Tourbillon is far more effective for its points.

I think the French are competitive, especially with the Attack Flotilla which allows us to use a real battleship instead of the currently subpar Magentas. Still, with the Magentas probably fixed in 2.0, maybe the Couronne will simply go from the better battleship which happens to have a TFT attachment to a Carrier which can hold it's own against enemys which dare to wander in too close. And then the Magenta will be back in action and we will have heat lances galore. ... and probably still suck beyond RB2, but otherwise it would be too easy anyway.

 

Having said that, I too am a bit annoyed about the "RoF is overpowered" whining you sometimes see. I have to see half of my fleet sink to the ground against FSA before I am in range but I still have to hear from FSA players that the French are OP. Nearly every nation can board us if they play their cards right, while we have real trouble with stuff like "Board the enemy's Commodore". Or even with keeping enemy boarding units at bay. I still sweat when I see 2x 3 Russian Gunships heading my way because I know that they will kill one of my ships with gunfire and board the other one.

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So  ROF is going to be hit with a massive nerf wrecking ball in DW 2.0 and will have to play with either expensive point models or models which fonction poorly.

 

I should ready myself  to have an over expensive carrier for ROF while all other nations will get boost to theirs by getting combat launch or similar rule. The far to cheap BUT FAR TO FRAGILE Voltaire will cost you to much to worth playing and may get poorer stats. The Vauban!!! Well!!! probably upgraded to irrelevance.

 

Good bye Couronne, Voltaire, Vauban

You'll be crash landing on the shelf from next year on

But please don't blame me

Blame those players who are crying OP.

 

Why is the Voltaire far too fragile?  It is a DR4, CR6, 4 HP unit, just like the British, Antarctican, Prussian bombers, and the same base stats, before you throw on the FSA and Chinese +1 DR, EotBS +1 CR, or Italian - 1 CR and shields....

 

It has very good AA, and two decent ranged attacks.

It is just too cheap at 50 pts.There are a considerable number of models scattered over just about every fleet that are just too cheap for what they do.

 

Don't think for one second it'll be " French are too good, lets nerf (closes eyes and points) that, that and that. ...The FSA are fine"  Every model and every fleet is being looked at on it's own merits. Have you looked at the thread about the Magentas?

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To Hamster:

  • The Other Carrier should indeed be upgraded I agree with that (KOB Carrier is a prime example). If the Couronne get a fair amount of extra's in proportion to the point rise that is fine by me but raising it's points with no extra's while improving all the other Carriers for free would be unfair and giving in to a very vocal OP crying mob (sorry for the strong sentiment). I prefer to see the other carriers being improved rather than see the Couronne nerfed in order to close the gap.
  • I Agree with you on the Voltaire & Vauban.
  • ROF is indeed competitive with the latest additions (Toulon MK2, Requin, and the La Rochelle in most aspect) But I just don't want to see two ROF Keystones like the Voltaire & Couronne become overpriced and beeing sacrificed on the Altar of nerffing.

As for your last paragraphe I obviously couldn't agree more.

 

To Bunnahabhain;

 

  • In regards to the Voltaire i'll take a few example to compare:

FSA A-17 Bomber : +1 DR, swift ascent, +1 AP, squadron 2 to 4

KOB Donaster: +1 AP, Swift ascent, +2" MV

CF Liuxing +1 DR, +2 AP, +1" MV

COA Capek +2" MV, Low level Flyer, Hit & Run, Electrical defenses

EOBS DFA-170 +1 CR, +1 AP, +2" MV, Swift Ascent

PE Geier  + 2AP + 2" MV, Swift ascent

 

All the above are 5 or 10 points more expensive. now the Voltaire have Fuel reserve, Rapid fire and 6AA, 8"MV.  So slower, less AP than most, can be stopped from going obsured by fuel reserve, don't have a chance to go back obscure after shooting. So all those factor shows that the Voltaire is more fragile than the above, which explain it's cheaper cost. In my playing experience Voltaire are excellent small hunter, descent threat against medium when in full squadron but only if your opponent's don't pay attention to them, Most experience player I know will shoot at them early in the game as they know the Voltaire to be dangerous but fragile and fairly easy kill points.

I would propose a compromise (It's just an idea) here beetwen points going up and Status quo. Why not make it a little bit more resilient: remove Fuel reserve, give it retardant armour and increase it's point to 60. Also been able to switch the torpedoe for rockets (same number of AD) for free would be a nice addition and allow to be a viable choice for ground battles.

 

 

  • Thank you for your reassurance. I may have over reacted a bit (I apologies if offended you in any way) but you did scare me for a moment. 

On similar subject I've been toying with idea of an ROF thread to put some playtest report on my ideas. I shall try to have it up and running fairly soon, maybe you will have a look at it and find some of those ideas worthwhile and exploitable.

 

EDIT: I just saw your post on the Magenta, and It a very interesting proposition.

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Honestly the only issue with the Voltaire is that it suffers from the same disease as the Magenta. Mislabel-itis.

There is really nothing about the Voltaire that fits "Heavy Interceptor". It's too slow to catch any non Russian ship (I won't go into how much the ridiculously low speed of flyers in general chafes my tail. This isn't the place for it, and there may be ladies present.), but even worse it has a silly weapons mix for anti air work.

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Well - it intercepts mediums and smalls doesn't it ? :P Ok, not fliers but still...

 

As for NES:

You can see from my example with the RC that the playtesters do a fine job. RC was released, people whined, played with the new rules - and shut up. So the speed of the RC vessels was reduced, yes. But they have a chance to be faster than ever each turn and have the Commodore ability which makes all Sturginium boosts succeed and even gives it to ships without Sturginium boost for one turn. It's a killer because it enables them to do a coordinated assault which leaves lots of wrecked ships behind. So all in all the RC didn't get nerfed, but they got more flavour.

 

So relax for the moment. I don't think that the Couronne - one of the most beautiful models in the game - will suddenly be sidelined. This is not that other game company which makes half of their units redundant or useless with every new iteration of their game. Maybe the Couronne will be ten points more expensive and other carriers will get the Combat Launch MAR and then everything would be quite peachy. If I think of the British one in contrast it costs the same (if we assume that the Cloud Gen is an auto include) and is WAY weaker than the Couronne. The Russian one is quite good, but not too strong and the FSA is one is... cheap as hell and nothing else. So at the moment, the Couronne does stand out and I think this will be adressed. But without making it useless.

 

And I'm pretty sure the Voltaire won't suffer, either. I haven't uses it as frequently as before since the new ships are there, but for the moment let's just wait what the rules for flyers will be like in 2.0. This might redefine the value of the Voltaire anyway. And if it becomes useless we can still protest ;)  

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Well the Voltaire certainly won't have Fuel reserves- that was some hang over from the Magenta Mk 0, wasn't it?  It makes no sense whatsoever that it gets it and most other flyers don't, and I don't like things that make no sense...

 

Some of the other bits mentioned may be getting tweaked, and some may become irrelevent due to core rules changes.... :ph34r:

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On similar subject I've been toying with idea of an ROF thread to put some playtest report on my ideas. I shall try to have it up and running fairly soon, maybe you will have a look at it and find some of those ideas worthwhile and exploitable.

 

EDIT: I just saw your post on the Magenta, and It a very interesting proposition.

 

 

Please do start such a thread if you'd like to...

 

However, for it to be most use, follow the same ground rules as for the Magenta. Everything starts from the MODEL and what is and is not on it. Rules can be changed.

 

As there are changes to MARs, Stats and core rules, the exact way model XXX does something is much less use than what's on model XXX, and what it should be able to do.

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Nope. Some things will change, some ships will get more expensive or lose a bit, but on the other hand some ships which currently underperform will get better.

First things which come to my mind are:

  • Magentas (of course)
  • Marseilles (in the spirit of the original cruisers being brought up to date with the monstrosities of the newer factions)
  • both Frélons and Furieuxs which are not bad at the moment but suffer from the rules for mines and bombs which I guess will be adressed

As an aside I wish the Vauban would get an improvement somehow. It looks dangerous but apart from being a bullet-sponge it's not exactly worth its points if you leave the TFTs aside. It's good in theory but I've never seen it pulling its own weight. Furthermore you practically have to add one TFT wing as CAP since it still is boarded easily despite its defensive MARs. And nobody wants a boarded Vauban. The horror...

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The Voltaire is a amazing flyer. I love that thing, I don't see what everyone's problem is with it is.

(but yeah I would love a speed boost)

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