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Sanguinary Dan

Attack Flottila!

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Uhm - so far Heat Lances have worked, the French were competitive. Now Heat weapons are improved by a free effect. So why complain? Heat weapons are great, even my Russian opponent tends to be nervous around them. The raging fires don't kill the ship of course, but one Raging Fire means two AP less - which is better than full AP in my opinion, so once again I don't see the reason to complain.

 

It's the same when as an FSA player complaining that their snipers are ineffective. It's a free opportunity to kill an AP, so I don't see the reason to complain.

 

Besides, why do you have to go for the 3xDR effect? 2x is already really powerful (expect against EOTBS) and now you can actually achieve 3xDR. Which is great against Dreads but not especially necessary against everything else. Sure, it adds some reliability and I've often seen my Heat Lances fail in times of need - but I've got twice as many of them and most ot the times you can get two or three lances to bear in one turn. Which is a lot of frightened Russians.

 

I guess it's not that we are against anything you say - it's just that I personally don't see the need to change Heat weapons again.

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The hamster- a raging fire TOKEN does not kill any AP when it is placed,  but may do so when they try to put it out.

Only a raging fire critical hit causes the loss of 2 AP straight off.

 

 

Heat lances were fine without incendiary rounds. The fact they now get it is just a nice bonus.

 

NES, I think you'll find that lots of nations don't have many or any special MARs on their nation trait weapons- ie the KoB, Russians and FSA, and many of the others do not have any of the persistent effects you're talking about- things like CoA energy turrets and Prussian Teslas have one off effects.

 

Indeed the only persistent effects around are:

Incendiary rounds and flamethrowers for fire

Corrosion

which are found on 4 fleets as defining traits. Ottomans, Poles, Chinese, EotBS.   The  French happen to get a smatttering of both.

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Putting a raging fire on the ship doesn't mean it instanly lose 2 AP ??? According to me it's not a critical hit resultat, you just put the ragging fire marker and see on the next reapair phase if it is clear or kill 2AP and meabe spread another marker. Or am i wrong ???

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Look carefully at page 75 ( end phase) Damage Repair section....

 

Roll a d6 for each fire token on the ship.

1,2,3- remove the token, no AP loss

 

4,5- model loses one AP

 

6- model loses one AP and gains another fire token

 

The model only instantly loses 2 AP if the fire is placed via the raging fire critical hit. Once you are past that, all raging fires are the same, regardless of how they got there.

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Goodness, thank God I read this forum, otherwise there wouldn't be many rules which our group actually got right. So, I don't have to fear EOTBS rockets too much, since the effect is not as strong as I thought. Fortunately, I've only played with the new lances once, so not that much damage done. Still: hurray for clarity in the rules section.

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I finally played them. And I have to agree that the battle cruisers are glass cannons. Only got off 1 shot each before they were hosed by FSA guns. Only consolation is they got full fire against a dread before dying. Pretty expensive price to pay for a single crit on a dread. The battleship is what our magenta should be. I hate my mk2 now.

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FSA is an extremely diffuclt match anyway. So, yeah I wouldn't actually use them against FSA or Covenant.

 

I just had a game against Russia and was very surprised to nearly clear the table in 4 turns. We had agreed to deploy 16 inches into the field, since usually the first two turns are lost for pushing every model straight ahead. So, in turn 2 the action commenced and after ridding a Borodino of its ablative armour with TFTs, an MKII/Toulon squadron critted the Borodino, and one activation later a Couronne/Toulon squadron did the same. So, yeah the Magenta still stinks, but as a carrier for Heat Lances it actually works fine with a Toulon. Shame that Toulons are glass hammers, too. But I think in combination with e.g. Requins and some aircraft we now have better chance to get something in range because there's too much to shoot at. I boarded a Russian Gunship with the Requins in turn 2 and I think in the future, my enemy will use some firepower to get rid of them.

 

So, with the new ships I have the feeling that the enemy may take some of my models, I still have enough firepower to get back at him. Without the new models my enemy focussed on the Magenta and Couronne and maybe the Tourbillon in case of the Russians. Now there are Toulons, which block LOS and add some firepower. It's easy to sink one in one turn, BUT that still leaves an intact battleship or a Couronne. My Toulons ate all the fire the big ones usually do, so in Turn 4 I had a nearly undamaged Couronne on the table even though it was in line of sight of a Borodino and a cruiser squadron.

 

I think this box works really well and adds some nice stuff to play with. The Cherbourg needs more testing, but I definitely wouldn't use them against long ranged factions.

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I like the Magenta Mk2 & Toulon Team up. I know its expensive on points but I like how it feels and works, the Toulon can be screened by the Magenta till time to strike arises, while still contributing to AA CC and AP as needed.  The new ships and rules are much appreciated, but they certainly don't break the RoF, just give it a stronger , more intense flavor.

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I still think it's strange how our MKII magenta doesn't have retardant armor and everything else in the cruiser range and the larger then battleships. It's like they skipped the class on the battleship armor.

The Cherbourg Being battle cruisers, I would of thought they be little harder to crit and have a little more life then the Toulon, especially the price we pay. Almost a battleship price.

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I'm not sure if this was a typo, but you can get 3x DR with 130 points not 230.

 

Secondly, the heat lances have MARs and benefits that normal guns don't.  They combine fire, and then they are redoubtable, plus any damage effects are put into place after all AD have been worked out, so a battleship with 6 damage will lose 3 AD, which is far less than any other nationalities ships will degrade.  To neutralize these ships you must sink them, which is a massive bonus, compared to something like the Majesty-class Dreadnought which ceases to function after 40% damage.

 

The reason they made the experimental heat lance do that is because otherwise it would be too powerful.  To have a guaranteed 3x DR onboard a single ship with battleship stats, retardant armor, and a cloud generator is itself OP, because it is so hard to sink the thing, considering that 3x DR will 95% of the time guarantee a critical hit on an enemy target.  Be happy that they have the chance to get 4x DR, while they can still bring the firepower of a dreadnought to the fight.

 

What I was saying was that in the fluff it says that heat lances damage a target's superstructure, but all guns do that, so why should the heat lance get special treatment for it?

 

Most powerful weapon against a dreadnought yes, but 4x DR, or even 3x DR is a guaranteed critical, and 4x DR is pretty much a guaranteed double critical, it doesn't matter what you are fighting, except maybe for the high CR EotBS.  The short range is a problem found by the Russians, and their guns degrade far faster than heat lances, but they still do well.  The problems with heat lances are problems, yes, but no weapon is perfect.

 yes you can get it 3xDR on the cherbourg for 130 points, I’ve realise after playing it  a couple of times that this ship is target practice for your opponents and giving away 130 points fairly easily without  getting a shot  from  the Cherbourg  main weapons . 

 

 

 

 

The La Rochelle is certainly not  that impossible to sink. out of 11 games with it, my opponents sink it 3 times (against COA , was prized twice (against prussian and COA) and 6 times it finished the game at 50% or below. 

The fact that you have to roll a dice on the experimental heat lance to know how much AD you will have is adding another level of randomness . This is the only weapon in the game that have a random generation of AD which when considering that you will get use of it twice in game make the weapon totally unreliable.

 

Going back to the concept MARS for Heat lance, You interpreting Superstructure as hull (HP) when I interpret Superstructure as (DR or CR) .

So let me rephrase my proposal so we are talking about the same thing.

Successfull  AD reduce HP (Hull points) not DR & CR (internal superstructure). If the Internal superstructure (DR  & CR) of a ship is heated up to the point where it weakens (represented by structural damage marker)  the Superstructure will offer less protection from subsequent attacks (-1 to CR for every 2 markers on the ship).

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I still think it's strange how our MKII magenta doesn't have retardant armor and everything else in the cruiser range and the larger then battleships. It's like they skipped the class on the battleship armor.

The Cherbourg Being battle cruisers, I would of thought they be little harder to crit and have a little more life then the Toulon, especially the price we pay. Almost a battleship price.

 I agree with you on the MK2 it need the combo retardant armour & Cloud Generator and so is the Cherbourg

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I've certainly made my feelings clear about RA on the Magenta class, so I won't push that button here. ;) I also really think we'll need to see what happens with v2.0 and how the Field Generator changes before I want it to disappear from the cruisers.

The only fleet builds that have given me consistent trouble are FSA parking lots and teleporting penguins. Neither one requires much in the way of luck or tactics to make life miserable.

So I have to say I see no need to muck with the Heat weapons at all. I'm quite content with the new ships. Even the Requin. And I was certain I'd hate the little bugger. :D

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Our battle cruiser is one lonely ship. I understand the reasoning for it. Due to it being overpowering if put in 2's. But with no cloud generater or shields and being alone and RB2 effective range. Kinda makes it ready to be killed by priority targeting. The hood has shields and squadron and long range. And the konigsbergs also have squadron and range as well to survive into a engagement.

What are your thoughts of attaching either a Ecuyer or marseille cruiser to help these babies survive into battle? This way they can't link lance weapons further and they can be screened to reach a battle. Just a idea. Your thoughts?

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I'd pass on attaching an Ecuyer to anything other than the Charlemagne.  The damned things are too slow and have a terrible weapon arc.

 

Personally?  I'd love to be able to attach the Cherbourg to a squadron of Marseilles.  With 3 Marseille, a Cherbourg and the Convoy Duty CAP it brings you'd have a very formidable and mobile cruiser squadron.  Still glass hammer-y enough to prevent whining, but very dangerous to nearly any type of target.

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Attached Ecuyers? No thanks, I'd much rather have them separate unit and acting as a stand alone AA umbrella, and not slowing down faster units, or being unable to skim over obstacles.

The idea was only for the Cherbourg so that it may be screened and survive until the battle.

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Convoy duty show the medium model is important and should be protected as a large or massive model... with CAp or what is used in the fleet to protect such important models... Now for us it's the Toulon mk2 duty !... So just gives Toulon mk2 an attachment (Cherbourg, 1) additional MAR that will greatly improve the ability of the cherbourg to survive more that half a turn !

And the DRx4 resulting firepower is not greater that the La Rochelle+Toulon already does. So it doesn't appear to be unbalanced I think. Taking into account  that a the Cherbourg+Toulon squadron is really less survivable than a La Rochelle+Toulon squadron.

 

I don't really like the idea of adding Cherbourg to Marseilles squadron, model are too different. In fact I find rather odd to mix surface skimmer with conventional waterline ship (even if the La Rochelle + Toulon is our best combo !). But it could be a quite effective squadron. Anybody has tested that yet ?

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I have. It was quite hard to hold back the Toulon seeing how slow the new battleship is. But having DRx5 was impressive (DRx3 on experimental, plus rear lancette and Toulon lancette). My friends FSA dread was double crit and almost tripled, one short due to double shields. But like I said. Need the rest of your fleet to keep the enemy occupied and hold their own until this slow ship reaches the battle.

I would love the idea of a Toulon attaching the Cherbourg. But seeing as the cap that's standard from Spartan is DRx3 with the exception if out new battleship. Guaranteed DRx4 is something others will find OP. I don't and I'm sure most of us RoF players who also have a Cherbourg don't either. But all the others won't see the same. Which was why I suggested the Ecuyer instead so I don't hear the whining as much lol. Lord knows my FSA friend already whines about the cherbourgs already despite how easy it is to sink them.

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I rather think the need to screen the Cherbourg give new life to RA-less Marseille Squadrons.  Cheap enough that you don't really care about damage.  But still putting out fair firepower against Medium and Small enemies.  I'll need to try it out next game. :)

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I've tried that already and I think that Marseilles are still way too expensive. You spend 165 points which can do absolutely nothing apart from killing smalls (which is what Lyons are for) to protect 130 points? Definitely not. I'd rather park my Cherbourg behind something else or simply not use them against enemies with long range firepower.

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