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Castaras

Help with playing the Japanese

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So, I've had my Japanese army for around a year now, and I'm feeling very disheartened by it. I have won a grand total of 4 naval games in the year I've been playing (probably played about 15ish naval games in total?), and have won a big fat 0 land games. And I have no idea where I'm going wrong, and neither does my boyfriend who also plays DW (he tried playing my land army, and I is covenant, and it was depressing for both of us to see how quickly the japanese got slaughtered). 

 

My normal list nowadays for Naval is as follows:

- 3 gunships

- 3 scout gyros + onryo

- 4 frigates

- 2 squid + escorts

 

Occasionally I take 1 squid and a battleship instead. I've also tried taking the sky fortress and assault carriers, and found them to have bugger all firepower, and to die quicker than you can say "torpedo bombers, I choose you!". War Gyro I've tried and found to be useful for a turn before breaking into a million pieces.

 

My general tactic is to blast rockets to focus on some of the larger models to reduce their AP to make it easier for my gunships, gyros and squid to board them. Or, if I'm going against a more boarding-orientated faction, to use the firepower of the gunships, frigates and gyros to kill the mediums and smalls and use the squids to eat the biggest thing in the fleet (dreadnoughts or assault carriers). The gunships do amazingly. Pretty much all the naval games I've played, the gunships have been the only thing that has managed to do damage and destroy things. Everything else gets broken before it can do anything - the one time I could use the gyros successfully it was due to my opponent not knowing what they were. Every other game after that my onryo gets murdered first, and the scout gyros bite the dust before being able to do anything other than fail at rockets. Frigates I've been told are supposed to be survivable, and yet even if I use terrain to my advantage to flank stuff get destroyed before they do any damage, and the damage they do do is measely. 

 

My Land army list has changed drastically over the times, and I avoid playing them because of how badly they go, even with the new stuff. Which, admittedly, has made the fights a little less one sided. Well, the new large walker that can have bansan attached has made fights a little less one sided. When the rockets actually do something, which is rarely. The first heavy walker was made of paper every time I used it, and pretty much everything time got ran over second turn of the game. Whether that's bad luck or me using it wrong, I've no idea. Needless to say, despite its big turret it's never done anything.

 

I have no idea what I'm doing wrong with playing the japanese, and I really really want to like them. I love the gyro aesthetic (always have), and the squids are magnificent. And with the new interesting Japanese stuff coming out, I want to be able to play them and enjoy them. Yet I can't justify the expense if I'm just going to find the games depressing because I pretty much never win.

 

Any advice on things to do would be wonderful. Thanks for reading my rant.

 

TL;DR Japanese forces don't like me, halp.

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Well. I have a pretty good time with my fleet. About 50/50 win loss. I learned that we are long range gamers for the most part against other factions (brits and prussians) Close action for some others is preferable (covenant). Make sure your gyros are obscured and when the enemy is hurt enough and lower AP. swoop in and board and kill. I recommend the naval carrier instead of sky fortress. I also recommend you getting destroyers. Very deadly especially with new rules about all rockets incendiary. So in essence. Flyers stay away and pot at enemy or go obscured and close in and come down when enemy is hurt enough. Naval go long range game (except the close gamers like squid and frigates)

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I would try and make room for more smalls - the Uwatsu is one of the most hilariously powerful frigates out there, and as Panda said, the destroyers are now quite a force to be reckoned with themselves.

 

As for general playstyle, we are a faction that really wants to dictate the range of our engagements - we are capable of operating well at both long range and short, but the idea is that we cannot beat a more specialized faction at their own game, so we do not let them play that game. Use the maneuverability of the fleet to get exactly where your opponent doesn't want you to be, then choose targets wisely. Try and knock a point or two of AA from models with gunnery before firing your rockets, and keep your torpedo bomber wings in reserve - they might not be a massive threat to an undamaged dread, but knock out a few points of AA and drop their escorts first? 15AD of fast torpedoes will ruin anyone's day quickly.

 

Personally, I like to use my mediums (gunships and scout gyros) to wipe out squadrons of smalls as quickly as possible, leaving the slower elements of the opposing fleet entirely at the mercy of my faster and more maneuverable models later in the game.

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Sounds like the people you play know their fleets. I think you may need to tailor your fleet list to your opponents.

 

As stated by those above, killing your opponents smalls is job one. It helps you with maneuverability and activations.

 

There is no one fleet list to win them all. Best to find what units work best for you and see how they work together.

 

Try also to remember which games you lost due to dice rolls and not get discouraged. The dice WILL come back to your favor.

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Well. I have a pretty good time with my fleet. About 50/50 win loss. I learned that we are long range gamers for the most part against other factions (brits and prussians) Close action for some others is preferable (covenant). Make sure your gyros are obscured and when the enemy is hurt enough and lower AP. swoop in and board and kill. I recommend the naval carrier instead of sky fortress. I also recommend you getting destroyers. Very deadly especially with new rules about all rockets incendiary. So in essence. Flyers stay away and pot at enemy or go obscured and close in and come down when enemy is hurt enough. Naval go long range game (except the close gamers like squid and frigates)

I always keep gyros obscured when they're going in. Doesn't do much for defence, they still get shot down before doing anything useful. When kept at distance, again they do nothing. Rockets get shot down, turrets do no damage to even the smalls of the enemy.

 

Tried the naval carrier already, and it did nothing. Did no damage, ended up destroyed.

 

Haven't tried destroyers, will look into proxying them at some point.

I would try and make room for more smalls - the Uwatsu is one of the most hilariously powerful frigates out there, and as Panda said, the destroyers are now quite a force to be reckoned with themselves.

 

As for general playstyle, we are a faction that really wants to dictate the range of our engagements - we are capable of operating well at both long range and short, but the idea is that we cannot beat a more specialized faction at their own game, so we do not let them play that game. Use the maneuverability of the fleet to get exactly where your opponent doesn't want you to be, then choose targets wisely. Try and knock a point or two of AA from models with gunnery before firing your rockets, and keep your torpedo bomber wings in reserve - they might not be a massive threat to an undamaged dread, but knock out a few points of AA and drop their escorts first? 15AD of fast torpedoes will ruin anyone's day quickly.

 

Personally, I like to use my mediums (gunships and scout gyros) to wipe out squadrons of smalls as quickly as possible, leaving the slower elements of the opposing fleet entirely at the mercy of my faster and more maneuverable models later in the game.

Tried this. The frigates which are supposed to be terrifying die before they get close enough to do anything.

I always do turrets before rockets, it's common sense to do the attack which can reduce the defences for the second attack. Torpedo bombers unfortunately die quickly due to my main enemy being the covenant, and their drones very quickly destroy my stuff.

Could you give more detailed advice regarding deployment and moving the units? If it's where I'm moving stuff that's causing issues, I've no idea how to fix that.

My gyros end up failing at killing anything, the gunships do good at killing smalls.

Try also to remember which games you lost due to dice rolls and not get discouraged. The dice WILL come back to your favor.

Very unlikely that luck is what's been the issue for an entire year of games. I'm doing pretty much everything that people are mentioning (which is basic stuff that should be obvious to anyone, I'd have thought). People often comment on my luck, but it can't just be luck for getting such constant and horrific losses. Especially referring to when people have tried my fleet and ended up losing horrifically as well.

Maybe my fleet is just cursed. eh.

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Oh, as someone who's main opponent is CoA, I sympathize. I find that our TFTs are less effective against them than most other fleets, as all those blasted drones they can spew out quickly dominate the airspace. Not sure why you are having such problems with the gyros - I love mine, I find them to be the star players of my fleet, even above the much-vaunted Tanuki. I like to get them mixed up nice and close fairly early, as between the quite agreeable RB 2/3 firepower they put out, along with the scary bombing and boarding threat they represent in RB1, makes them quite good at dealing with CoA units. How much firepower is being put into them that they get dropped easily whilst obscured? 

 

I find that deploying the Uwatsu units nice and tight against island terrain can really boost their survivability early-game, but if your opponent is clever they will be quite high on their target priority list. Try hiding them behind your Tanuki squadron, then steaming ahead a couple turns in.

 

What units do you generally find yourself up against? CoA have some stupidly powerful vessels at their disposal, including quite possibly the single finest battleship in the game. Also Time Dilation Orbs. My GOD do I hate those things. 

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My main opponent is CoA, and I must say it's one of the easiest fleets for us to face, at least for me. They're so, so vulnerable to boarding.

 

Squids can help you control terrain - I mean, your opponent will not want them anywere near his boats. 100 points +  escorts for each Ika is a bit expensive for board control, so I usually don't field them anymore. I often use my Kiyohime (battlecarrier) however, as the +6 TFT can be incredibly useful (not vs French, obviously)

 

Gyros: I totally sympathise with you, as mine usually undershine compared to Tanukis.

 

I usually go first against destroyers (Plutarchs are a nightmare, and as such a fav fire magnet of mine), and use my TFT as torp bombers against his battleship.

 

Deployment: TFT torp bombers in advance deployment with one Uwatsu squadron (and sometimes Tanuki). This Uwatsu squadron will die, but so what? They'll have damaged a big baddie or some mediums, so that's OK.

 

And then, after stuff's damaged (you'll be too), board board BOARD!!! with a second frigate squadron, with tanukis, with Inaris, with the Sokutsu... it's CoA's main weakness, so go for it!

 

EDIT: forgot about the TDO. As a non-covenant player, I hate this thingie. Beware if your opponent has more activations than you (a battleship in your back is risky but dangerous!), and plan accordingly (lay mines behind you if you can, park small squadrons in risky zones, don't align your boats too much (particle accelerator...)

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Advice from my daughter: take a Carrier as your only large. Give it full escort for defense. Use your entire small-allowance on frigates and destroyers, all full-sized squadrons, and a roughly 2:1 ratio frigates to destroyers. Use a full-sized cruiser squadron (a reinforced cruiser squadron is ok). Spend the rest of your points on air support. Use tiny flyers as torpedo bombers.

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Advice from my daughter: take a Carrier as your only large. Give it full escort for defense. Use your entire small-allowance on frigates and destroyers, all full-sized squadrons, and a roughly 2:1 ratio frigates to destroyers. Use a full-sized cruiser squadron (a reinforced cruiser squadron is ok). Spend the rest of your points on air support. Use tiny flyers as torpedo bombers.

 

That's excelent advice. Personally I'd swap the cruiser squadron for a unit Tanuki gunships since the OP already stated that he owns them. They simply perform better for their points.

 

I personally tend to use corvettes instead of frigates, but that's just me. I tend to use those for screening my more important units, like Tanukis who are vulnerable to "pinging" (as are the cruisers).

 

Cheers,

 

Falconer

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Try this

 

Don't go obscure on your Gyro sqd.  Use them on the outside to go after the smalls that are usually at the front.  Also, use them as escorts for your torp bombers.  they have good AA and can usually sweep out the fighters of other players.  You can also use them in combination with your squid for boarding attacks and to "clear the decks".   For me, the lost chance to shoot with these great ships is worse that to shoot with just 6s and hope you hit.  Plus I can usually use them to get one shot with guns and one with rockets.

 

Don't know if you use the 10 free TF but if you do, go with a carrier (either sea or sky) and use the free TFs as fighters to clear the skys.  They can also act as back up TB when you get to later rounds.  Get them back to the carrier and reload as TB and go back after the closest big guy.

 

Another trick is to take a squad of the small flyers and add them to the mix.  I use these along with either the gyros or with the squid.  They are great to scare the bejesus out of the other guy for boarding assaults. 

 

I also find that a good 1-2 punch are the FFGs along with the vettes.  the 15 move on them combined with the fire power of the ffgs is great for using them in tandom. 

 

Dont know if this helps but I have about a 90% win rate at this point.

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