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Grand-Stone

Ottoman, are they balanced?

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A friend of mine took to magnetising his flight stands and the battleship in particular was terribly unbalanced. As for game balance, their broadsides and linking turret/bombard corrosive nastyness is... well, nasty. their mines are fun to counter and their armour is average. the flitina gens are useful and hitting almost everything (so it seemed to me in several games) can be very annoying. I dont think they are overpowered, but then the best i have done against them was fight to a draw, other times they have slaughtered me. so i may be being optimistic :)

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They're fairly well balanced IMO , they've got good firepower but you can punish them severely if they expose themselves.

Their size can be both a boon and a bane against my blazing sun. Sharp turn can exploit their blind spots fairly well.

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Just remember that you can't link volley-fire weapons with "standard" weapons

 

Correct. Volley Guns are secondary and the only other secondaries that the Ottomans have are broadsides with Sustained Fire. Sustained Fire weapons can only link with other Sustained Fire weapons and the Volley Guns don't have that.

 

Cheers,

 

Falconer

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They do have low AP, are slightly expensive, don't have insane protection.  Their AA isn't on the top self, but it isn't bad either and is compensated by MANY tiny fliers.

-1 AP combined with being slighty more expensive might be a weak point. Sharpshooter compensate slightly. I guess.

 

Question: cloud, it dissapears at the end of the turn and cannot be reactivated before the unit has activated? Is that true? If so thats a slightly weakness.

 

But in general I would say that cload + storm is equaly powerful as shiled, if not even greater.

 

Mine controller is seems fun.

 

I like the sustained fire rules for cruisers as it gives you more insentive to fire separately.

 

I like that they have expensive units, but think they could have made them slightly more expensive, especially the battleship and dreadnaughts.

Cuz they do have insane firepower. 9 dices with 4 rerolls is for all practical purposes equal to 13 dice. Which is more powerful than the FSA's dreadnought at range band 4, but the Ottomans firepower is less effected by damage.

And they have a main turret with a nice mar in addition, and two fore bombards whit combined firepower of 10 at rangeband 4, AND a nice mar on them to. Granted, it may be difficult to apply both for bombards AND broadsides at the same time, but its combined firepower is very good.

 

I have a slight fear that they have slightly to high firepower. And especially due to the redoubtable ability. But I will try them before judging.

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Question: cloud, it dissapears at the end of the turn and cannot be reactivated before the unit has activated? Is that true? If so thats a slightly weakness.

Correct. Both the cloud and storm effects disappear at end of turn.

But in general I would say that cload + storm is equaly powerful as shiled, if not even greater.

Shields work always, Cloud + Storm only works *after* the squadron has activated. Exactly like the current rules for the French Cloud Generator. This is a weakness French players are well aware of.

Cheers,

Falconer

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I hope we don't get more tech cross-over.... the Firtini.. Firtina, whatever... Storm generator is unique and should remain an Ottoman thing. Otherwise we just end up with everyone owning or able to own everything and the game looses some uniqueness and character.

 

Like then the Aussies got better e-turrets, or Italians better shields....

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Shields isn't a unique thing to start with. So Italians getting them better is nice.

 

Getting slightly off topic. But CoA are supposed to be the most technically advanced and they were when they were released. But now Italians have stronger / better shields AND Inventive Scientists, and the Aussies have better e-turrets. Kind of takes away the splendour and supposed superiority of CoA.

 

Cross-faction tech or MARS are not a good idea IMO as those are the things that start to define a nation. When everything starts mushing together the nation uniqueness gets lessened.

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But the Italians and aussies both have fluff reasons behind the shared/improved tech... Ok, the better e-turrets is a little lost on me, but the reasons they have the tech is still valid. We need something to fight off the wildlife around here :D

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More like not having to have their reactors power multiple turrets - the bounty only has two turrets as opposed to the aristotle's four.

Also, when you look at the numbers, they need the boosted AD to be able to put a reasonable amount of damage down range - with the bounty, it puts out 10AD (as opposed to 7ad if it had the smaller turrets) when linked, and 15AD for the squadron, where as the Aristotle puts out 11AD.

But also consider that the Bounty is only a pocket battleship - 6/9 and 7hp means it will take damage a quicker as opposed to the aristotle's 6/10 and 8 hp. Also, a squad of bounties cost 100 pts more than the Aristotle, so it's balanced.

And the 6AD on the Sirius - well, that the only weapon it's got!

*****

We now return you to our discussion on the ottomans, already in progress.

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Having played an Ott/CoA combo against some brits.

 

I can vouch for the Firtina (Turkish for Storm/Tempest/Hurricane) as a lovely piece of kit. The dreadnought with mine-controller gen is a gorgeous centrepiece, but at 280pts is overpriced.

 

In the second turn I activated the Meltemi Fury, which was excellent, as it clouded over the brit DD and BB in the same turn keeping their blasted torpedos the hell away from me and nerfed their turrets, as well as keeping those strong dive-bombers at bay (note - this template really ruins TFTs day). However, to do that cost me a cloud gen and that really was the start of the end.

 

But in a solid 1250pts ottoman force, you will have anywhere in the region of 4 or 5 of these storms per turn, adding two if you activate the fury. This is a WALL of tornadoes!

 

In response to people frustrated by the fact that they get cloud gens, my advice is that this is the payoff for it having such a hideous broadside and corrosive turrets/bombards. You have the choice of either dropping your mines first, in which case you risk damage to the bigs (which caused my dread to suffer a half AD crit and this really really nerfed it completely) OR you move your dread/BB first to start messing with people's stuff early on.

 

I also enjoyed the towing rules (While they last) and towed a TDO, which made life easier on the accompanying cruisers (as it gave them a 1/2 AD shield in the later stages of the game and basically saved them from destruction and my opponent's victory.

 

Fought to an objectives draw and a points loss, but that loss basically came from terrible luck rather than unbalance in the ships.

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Excuse me while I rant a bit, but I can't help but cry when I hear the word "overpowered".  Spartan's number one goal is provide us with a fun and BALANCED game to enjoy.  Spartan strives to make sure all nations are properly balance, read some of Delboy's posts if you don't believe me.  Any fleet is very powerful, in the hands of a capable player.  All have weaknesses, however.  For example, let's take you complaints about the Ottomans.  Yes they have amazing gunnery and are masters at controlling the board, but they have very little ap (although sharpshooters does help with that) and they are fragile!  To bring your lovely broadsides to bear you end up presenting the biggest profile of you ship, which makes a very juicy target for enemy guns.  Plus the little fact that then your fore bombards can't hit the target, limiting the AD you can throw into one attack!  I can't help but feel defeated when people complain about nations being overpowered, have faith in Spartan and their playtesters!  Even if a nation is too powerful, Spartan has shown their willingness to make changes, like giving the Russians a small nerf and the Anarticans a more practical AD spread for their energy weapons.  This is not GW we're dealing with, this is Spartan!

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Don't worry, Mike! The ottomans are, on paper, able to dole out some serious hits.

 

But the Kanuni has some serious shortfalls in its defence, which means that you have to be super careful.

 

Mine controller generator is well worth the points though, as those planes are remarkably hardy and come in teams of 4. When combined with a more variable flyer like the Icarus and the 24" MCG, the Kanuni became an absolute STAR in battlefield control.

 

My recommendation? HIT LARGES WITH STORMS! Most larges only move 6", which means that a storm template reduces them to a single large-template turn in an activation. If they rely on fixed channels (or have an exposed rear like the ruskies) this will create huge blind-spots for you and, as it did in the case of this game, keep them at the back of the table unable to hurt you.

 

280pts is also a LOT of points to spend on a DD, but it's worth it for the control. Take escorts though, as I didn't and they would have been handy for the extra CC and AA.

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 Even if a nation is too powerful, Spartan has shown their willingness to make changes, like giving the Russians a small nerf and the Anarticans a more practical AD spread for their energy weapons.

They have to know there's something not working for that to happen...Yes, the ottomans aren't unbeatable, but they can still be rather difficult to deal with (and absolutely frustrating for the russians, who suddnely move backwards in time due to storm effects...)

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Be really; really careful with ottoman mines; think very; very carefully where you lay them; and move them.

 

If a tiny flyer moves on to one they explode; with good luck I had a single recon tiny flyer blow up two and ottoman damage cruisers and kill a DD which were too close to the mines.

 

In that game the mines did more damage to the ottomans than to me.

 

Also since I normally play 1,500 the cloud generator is a problem for the ottomans.

 

Even if they go first which ever BB/DN in range which has not activated is going to get hammered and any BB/DN going first may miss out on using its mine control gen on mines laid after the activation. 

 

Cloud gens really force key units to go early which may not be what you want.

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Correct. Both the cloud and storm effects disappear at end of turn.

Shields work always, Cloud + Storm only works *after* the squadron has activated. Exactly like the current rules for the French Cloud Generator. This is a weakness French players are well aware of.

Cheers,

Falconer

Where does it say this?  I have looked through the section on the Ottoman generator and can't see where it says the effects end at the end of the turn. 

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