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Comparative cost effectiveness of units

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Has anyone done any calculations on the relative cost effectiveness of units?

 

I mention this as it seems the Blazing Suns seem to have a large number of tough units with decent kill ratings and very large long range attacks available for very modest costs.

 

The flying squid thing seems particularly frightning, 160 points for a unit with a kill rating of 8/7/5 and 10red dice of rockets at 40", and it's not alone.

 

I can't find any other faction which can match this sort of cheap firepower, for instance the French Bastile Landship is 7/7/6 but only get 6 blue dice at 32" and it costs 180 points.

 

At this point many people will say something like "but when the bastille get in close it's much better".  This is true but by the time it gets close it's probably lost most of its support units to long range rocketry and is vulnerable to being mobbed by mediums.

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The very effective nature of the EotBS stuff is somehting I have noticed also. AA is a lot lower than in DW so those rockets often trash an awful lot of my units before we close. they do have to spot and poor rolls can reduce the colour but with the veteran spotting towers on a 3+ and other such tricks this is rarely a problem.

 

Also closing does not tend to help much as that is when you hit the Heavy walker divisions guns!

 

there is also the issue of the Tsukyomi large flyer but my doctor tells me that thinking about them is bad for my blood pressure. though they do have the decency to cost 220 points.

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rockets get shot down with AA, but yes it does seam a lot. especially when you are trying to close to 16" as my Russian need to lol

But the AC rules on states that

 

"Each Unit in the target Battalion which would otherwise be damaged or Destroyed by the attack may roll a number of Dice equal to their AckAck value."

 

This means that if a unit has 3 models but only 1 model would be destroyed or damaged then only 1 model in the unit gets to fire its AA which for most units with medium models will make very little difference to a rocket attack.

 

 

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But the AC rules on states that

 

"Each Unit in the target Battalion which would otherwise be damaged or Destroyed by the attack may roll a number of Dice equal to their AckAck value."

 

This means that if a unit has 3 models but only 1 model would be destroyed or damaged then only 1 model in the unit gets to fire its AA which for most units with medium models will make very little difference to a rocket attack.

 

 

 

That is not how I read it. The battalion is the target and the battalion is what will be damaged or potentially destroyed. therefore the batallion as a whole gets to use its Ack Ack.

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That is not how I read it. The battalion is the target and the battalion is what will be damaged or potentially destroyed. therefore the batallion as a whole gets to use its Ack Ack.

That's how we played in in DW and it feels right to me but our interpretation of the AC rules means we've plumped for only those units of a batalion which would be destroyed getting to roll their AA.

 

Is there a higher authority we can refer to?

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Chris Worth at Spartan seems to be the point of contact for rules queries.

He has responded to a couple of personal e-mails I've sent him.

I'm saddened to be fair that there hasn't been more Spartan presence/comment on the AC thread given the rules/stats are still in development...

Cheers

Andy

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Always used the AA rules as it covers a Battalion response, as most things, other than shields, work in that way - so ALL units in a battalion contribute to AA defensive fire, even if 'out of range'.

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That is not how the rule work. It distinctively states each Unit that is damaged or Destroyed. Battalions are not damaged nor destroyed as these happen to Units. Do not make assumptions based on DysWars as this is a separate system.

 

"Each Unit in the target Battalion which would otherwise be damaged or Destroyed by the attack may roll a number of Dice equal to their Ack Ack value."

 

If it was the entire Battalion then it would say, "A Battalion that is the target of a Rocket attack may roll a number of Dice equal to their Ack Ack value".

 

The wording for a Shield Generator is stated in the same way, "Once the total number of successes from the incoming Ranged
Attack has been calculated, for each Unit with a Shield Generator which is damaged or destroyed the controlling Commander may roll a number of Shield Dice equal to the Shield Generator’s value."

 

A example of this should be written in before release though.

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That is not how the rule work. It distinctively states each Unit that is damaged or Destroyed. Battalions are not damaged nor destroyed as these happen to Units. Do not make assumptions based on DysWars as this is a separate system.

 

"Each Unit in the target Battalion which would otherwise be damaged or Destroyed by the attack may roll a number of Dice equal to their Ack Ack value."

 

If it was the entire Battalion then it would say, "A Battalion that is the target of a Rocket attack may roll a number of Dice equal to their Ack Ack value".

 

So that means that we were correct in our original interpretation and only those units in a batallion which would be destroyed get to roll their AA against rockets?

 

If so it reinforces my original point that the EOBS has a lot of cheap units with a lot of long range offensive capability.

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So that means that we were correct in our original interpretation and only those units in a batallion which would be destroyed get to roll their AA against rockets?

 

If so it reinforces my original point that the EOBS has a lot of cheap units with a lot of long range offensive capability.

As i see it, the damaged/destroyed can be about the battalion or the unit. It is worded very ambiguously.

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See what you mean, it does read that they act in the same way as shields. I suppose that this does kind of counter the 'spotting' system - I even have trouble hurting stuff with EotBS rocket batteries when a whole battalion Ack Ack kicks in. (from this, looks like we've been doing Ack Ack wrong - your right)

As for the EotBS stuff being under pointed, not so sure. Primary weapons systems are rockets (usually without much else), which you need to stay at range to get the best from, require spotting (and only the Artillery Regiments have dedicated spotters, and can be shot down. Remember, these are the Landships of this nation, pointed similarly to the Landships (more expensive than some)and the EotBS doesn't have Landship Regiments.

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 Remember, these are the Landships of this nation, pointed similarly to the Landships (more expensive than some)and the EotBS doesn't have Landship Regiments.

I'd disagree, the EoGS landships are their heavy walkers, the 'Taka-Asho' Mk II Heavy walker unit is every bit as nasty as other landships and puts out a very creditable 12 red dice of gunnery at 16" for only 170 points.

 

The issue I have with the EoBS is the apparent cheapness of their long range rocketry which allows a lot of medium units to destroyed before they get into range, leaving the one or two heavy units to be mobbed by the EoBS medium units and finally destroyed by the heavy walkers.

 

This is particularly trus of the EoBS Bombardment Regiment, the Miage-Nyudo' has 10 red dice out to 40" is veteran and is an 'Observation Platform'.  So for 2CP the commander rolls 4 red spotting dice needing 3+ to succeed and once it has succeeded the HO-I Bombards can drop 12 dice on the same formation.

 

It is a beautiful combination of long, medium and short range firepower, I have no problem with the mechanics, indeed EoBS seems to be the best combined firepower force in the game, I just think its too cheap.

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Didn't mean they weren't nasty, yes the Large Walkers are Landships, just meant that you don't generally get a lot of them compared to same forces (Britannia and Prussian have Landship only formations, as do French). The Turreted Heavy walker is a pure terror, and almost a no brainer if you only have one Walker Detachment.

And you'll find no issue with me on the Bombardment Regiment, a almost 'Must-Have' formation of any force. I've only played one game in which it did not get fielded, and really missed it (It's a fairly expensive formation, but worth every penny).

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