Jump to content
Toolman

Official Thread: Kingdom Of Denmark

Recommended Posts

Yeah, it just happend... Old box twice, Asgard box twice and two spare ones that I got from a friend.

1000 or 1250 is our usual game size too, because of limited time. But you never know. One day we'll get our core large flyer and then there will be the 1600 points game with all those gun-ship-mini-carrier-zeppelins.

Until then they will cycle through. Something of an in-fleet competition.

Btw: Thx for bumping the ironclads.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New Orbat!

No more 12 LAS :(

The new doctrine adds to the maneuverability and fits good into the fluff. But at the loss of the iconic 3x4 Fighter LAS.

Specialized squadrons: There it is. Gunship-Cruiser-Combo.

Gunship and Korsors or Fafnir and Magni are strange combinations. Slowing Korsors down for linking into the Gunships broadside? Don't know. And to slow for reliable mine tricks. Looks like the little brother of the Konigsberg + Wächter squadron to me.

And decreasing fafnir firepower for a combination with boarding zeppelins? Don't know. This seems strange. Can't see too much potential here.

Asgard price increased to 195. Reasonable and justified.

The Prussian models have been adapted to the stats from the latest PE Orbat.

Sigurd got a point increase to 65 from 60. Now 3 Sigurds cost the same as 1 Asgard, just like before. Coincidence? For the point increase they lost 1 AP and gained terror tactics 1 instead. Don't know if I like that. I liked the theme of more but regular troops without unnecessary extra stuff. Another small nerf besides the point increase.

Skaggs gained one CR and lost 1 AP

Fafniers now have to pas 5 points for the spotter(Regular) Mar and gained strategic value(25)

Magni lost 1 CR and got the Sigurd treatment. - 1 AP but + terror tactics(1)

Tyr Assault boats lost 1 cc.

That's my rushed look through the Orbat. Please correct me if I got something wrong or add stuff I may haven't seen in my hurry.

And what do you guys think about our update?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tyrs lost quite a punch with the cc decrease. Besides boarding they could clear minefields or hunt subs on their way to the target. Now all they are is a throwaway boarding torpedo.

But I am still mostly okay with the changes. It just feels like the Danes lost a bit of their individuality. Terror Tactics wouldn't have been necessary and loosing the 2 LAS flyers pushes them from a cool looking formation to the same "boring" formation options that everybody has. Ottomans lost carrier 12 (Hissar was 12 in the dark grey past, right?), now Danes lost the 12 Flyers. Only the Zhan has it's carrier 12 option for now. It feels like a bit of diversity is being washed out of the game. Prussian AP values have been cut down with the last few updates and now the Danes are pushed into the same line. Are we playing blue cruiser against green cruiser soon as every faction has the same stats? I guess\hope not. May be a little pessimistic and not be happening.

Just a bit of whining on a high level. Still loving my Danes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Disappointed by the new specialist squadrons.  Only the Skag/Sigurd one makes any real sense.  The Fafnir has absolutely no synergy with the Magni, so hard to see why I wouldn't be better off playing as two separate small squadrons to at least gain the extra activation (although I wouldn't choose to do that either as both work better as full squadrons).  The Skag/Korsor combo makes slightly more sense as at least they're all boarding units, except that it's the Skag II, so doesn't have the Calc generator!...  I think only the Tung squadron will ever be played.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see all the changes as justifiable but the Sigurd point for point are slightly less than average cruiser (on average thru stats) compared to other nations which now includes Poland who were deserving of an update.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see all the changes as justifiable but the Sigurd point for point are slightly less than average cruiser (on average thru stats) compared to other nations which now includes Poland who were deserving of an update.

 

Personally I still like the Sigurds a lot (had the chance to use them for playtests). The 60 points, 6AP versions were just too brutal when used in bigger numbers.

 

@Tyr: Having 6 different boarding parties makes it highly likely that at least one of these guys will survive. So no nerf, just a tweak and surely more logical than having "Aggressive" guys on the Carrier and "Regular" guys in the boarding assault craft...

 

R

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Change log:

Doctrines: Lost 2 Saw for the option to use a single size category smaller turning template, once per turn. Dubious trade off.

Specialist squadrons- excellent, though I was surprised that they were limited to particular marks of Skaggerrak, I see both the 2xSigurd+Skag being used often, as the 3xKorsor+Skag sometimes.

We also gained the use of tactical action cards for our boxes, not unhelpful. Thanks guys.

Emperor: Still non-core *wince* and now +10pts for shield or other generator. Ugh.

Ragnarok: Unchanged.

Asgard: Went up 15pts base. Otherwise unchanged.... sadness.

However, the Tyr Assault Craft now are reckless instead or Regular.... debatable gain for the points, but certainly an advantage.

Konigsburg: -5pts, otherwise unchanged. If only it was Core, that might matter.

Havel: I think these are useful, however they are entirely unchanged.

Skaggerrak: +1 Ap is nice, very nice. +1 DR is nicer still. I never thought Id see a Danish medium with a DR above 6.......

Sigurd: -1Ap hurts, but Terror Tactics makes up for it a bit- and 5pts is not an unreasonable surcharage I suppose. Ill have to try them out, they were perhaps a little to good compared to the Skagg.

Stolz: -5pts, +1AA, Gain Piercing..... still non core, and thus unlikely to see the light of day.

Korsor: Unchanged, thankfully. If were going to have one small option, it might as well be reliably good.

Watcher: Unchanged other than being on its own page.

Gewitterwolke: -10pts. Appreciable.... but still non-core, thus eliminating the very real ability to use Danish Air-core. UGH.

Adler: Unchanged.

Fafnir: Now has to pay +5pts to become a spotter (regular).... odd choice of nerf.

Geier: Unchanged.

Speerwulf: No longer lists the Speerschleuders fire arc.

Jager: Unchanged.

Magni: Now has terror tactics and 2 AP instead of 3 AP.

Fortifications: Still only the forward landing field, which remains unchanged.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did not change the biggest issue with the Danish list: Non-core lend-lease.

Boarding Ability seems relatively unchanged, with a slight edge towards multiple boarding attempts by the same squadron.

Gunnery is actually unchanged.

Price, CR and specialist squadron changes will likely see a few more Skaggs on the field, but Sigurds will still be most common I feel.

Change to 10 SAW drops us by one activation, basically, which is a reasonable tweak.... but further highlights the needed utility of a few Fafnir.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Skaggs didn't gain 1 AP. They lost 1 by dropping from 5 to 4. Like his Prussian Brother did during the last year.

The kind of double price increase for the shielded Emperor ( 10 points regularly and additional 10 points for the shield while still losing a turret) disqualifies the Prussian battleship even more. Especially being non core. I guess I will redirect my lend lease models back to the painting table to give them Prussian colors. Can find less and less reason to include them beside personal fluff reasons.

The Asgard price increase is. Mine tends to be unable to hit with its turrets but at least broadsides are nice. It's a support vessel. Relatively sturdy. What do we want more? Besides a second one ...

Regarding our SAS we can still gain 4 activations and 3 fighters have still 9 AA. A full 5-Wing of our opponents will have only 10 (or 12 with swarm tactics)

So not a real nerf for spam lists. Asgard stays at auto include. That's still 8 Activations for 200 points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Yasbir: While one can still get 4 activations of the 10 planes this sure does matter as it means 2-3 less fighter planes. And while squadrons of 3 have a brutal AA value these have two weak points.

1) They usually are not enough to bring down an enemy SAS in one go (9AA = 7.2 hits).

2) They tend to get wiped out in the process or through the following occasional AA fire. To exaggerate a bit, they won't get a second chance to act, thus the opponent has a better chance to win air superiority.

 

The (small) change intends to:

- Give some more flavour to the fleet

- replace a now unnecessary doctrine as the KoD have access to good Carriers.

- be a small tweak against the SAS spam lists that caused problems. In this regard it is one of several tweaks and it does its job.

 

R

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did not change the biggest issue with the Danish list: Non-core lend-lease.

 

Might I make an observation?

 

It didn't change the biggest issue with the Danish list that you had.

 

The Non-core lend lease was added for a reason. Now I get that there are some people that aren't happy with this, but this was a designer's choice, and for a reason.

 

Basically there were too many Danish lists that were simply Prussian models with Danish abilities and 1 or 2 Danish squadrons if you were lucky. Lend-lease being non-core changed that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to happy with most changes. Why are AP of the typical boarding nations like PE and KoD hit every orbat update? PE already lost it's trademark advantage and KoD is following.

I will miss the two extra SAS. I was kind of fun and something different. Never seen it abused or found it overpowered. With sharp turn the new doctrine doesn't add much. Guess another nation was in for a more or less useless doctrine.

The new lend-lease rules make sense now that KoD has more ships of it's own that when the nation was introduced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I kinda like the new doctrine. Being able to make even tighter turns then before will be a big advantage I guess.

I'm a bit unsure about the AP nerf on the Sigurd but I think it will work out in the long run.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can live with the Sigurd, I'm worried about the Skagarak. Most other nations gunships have 5 AP. Skagarak, together with the Hussar, have 4. And they are suppost to be nations fixed on boarding. At least the Hussar has specialist defences. The Skagarak is a close range brawler which is now in danger of being boarded itself. CR7 is a nice and much needed improvement, but the ship has gained a even bigger vulnerability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see what you mean. Its indeed strange that these brawlers get such a weakness. I can live with the Hussar being 4 AP due to specialized defences, but the skagg is virtually defenceless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Change log:

Doctrines: Lost 2 Saw for the option to use a single size category smaller turning template, once per turn. Dubious trade off.

Specialist squadrons- excellent, though I was surprised that they were limited to particular marks of Skaggerrak, I see both the 2xSigurd+Skag being used often, as the 3xKorsor+Skag sometimes.

We also gained the use of tactical action cards for our boxes, not unhelpful. Thanks guys.

Emperor: Still non-core *wince* and now +10pts for shield or other generator. Ugh.

Ragnarok: Unchanged.

Asgard: Went up 15pts base. Otherwise unchanged.... sadness.

However, the Tyr Assault Craft now are reckless instead or Regular.... debatable gain for the points, but certainly an advantage.

Konigsburg: -5pts, otherwise unchanged. If only it was Core, that might matter.

Havel: I think these are useful, however they are entirely unchanged.

Skaggerrak: +1 Ap is nice, very nice. +1 DR is nicer still. I never thought Id see a Danish medium with a DR above 6.......

Sigurd: -1Ap hurts, but Terror Tactics makes up for it a bit- and 5pts is not an unreasonable surcharage I suppose. Ill have to try them out, they were perhaps a little to good compared to the Skagg.

Stolz: -5pts, +1AA, Gain Piercing..... still non core, and thus unlikely to see the light of day.

Korsor: Unchanged, thankfully. If were going to have one small option, it might as well be reliably good.

Watcher: Unchanged other than being on its own page.

Gewitterwolke: -10pts. Appreciable.... but still non-core, thus eliminating the very real ability to use Danish Air-core. UGH.

Adler: Unchanged.

Fafnir: Now has to pay +5pts to become a spotter (regular).... odd choice of nerf.

Geier: Unchanged.

Speerwulf: No longer lists the Speerschleuders fire arc.

Jager: Unchanged.

Magni: Now has terror tactics and 2 AP instead of 3 AP.

Fortifications: Still only the forward landing field, which remains unchanged.

Also now 25 strategic value on the fafnir.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Might I make an observation?

 

It didn't change the biggest issue with the Danish list that you had.

 

The Non-core lend lease was added for a reason. Now I get that there are some people that aren't happy with this, but this was a designer's choice, and for a reason.

 

Basically there were too many Danish lists that were simply Prussian models with Danish abilities and 1 or 2 Danish squadrons if you were lucky. Lend-lease being non-core changed that.

Cant say Ive seen a list posted in here that was primarily Prussian since... well... we got a box. I know my fleets were never such.

Moreover, thats still bs. Because theres nothing stopping a Prussian force from being almost entirely Danish, if they so choose.

If spamming our close allies is an issue, then there are other options to reduce this than punishing the average gamer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can live with the Sigurd, I'm worried about the Skagarak. Most other nations gunships have 5 AP. Skagarak, together with the Hussar, have 4. And they are suppost to be nations fixed on boarding. At least the Hussar has specialist defences. The Skagarak is a close range brawler which is now in danger of being boarded itself. CR7 is a nice and much needed improvement, but the ship has gained a even bigger vulnerability.

The Skagerrak has gained more balance.

 

During the early playtests for DW 2.0 I fought to keep the Skageraak MkII....( it was nearly scrapped! )...with that ship included in the ob plus the additional ships that the Danes have received recently you have to tweak things a little to maintain some modicum of balance. Nothing in DW happens in a vacuum ....so a Skaggerak that is perceived by your opponent as being vulnerable must be weighed against other threats of the Danish fleet that can counter board in a subsequent activation such as the Tyr assault boats or Magni assault airship. These two elements were not present just a year ago ! Change brings about adjustment to the order of battle. Who knows what will be around in a year from now. :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.