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Official Thread: Chinese Federation

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Of course it does, as you can't replenish a fully destroyed squadron.

So? You just lost 3 tft. Which has managed to destroy a 5 wing tft of your opponent because swarm tactics and another 3 wing tft..which is still alive. After killing all your oponent tft you change your 5 wings and go after the rest.

It depends what you want your wings to do. If you wnt to spam activations destroy his tft than hammer the rest of his fleet with what you have left than that is a viable option

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Did you notice that the carrier and cruiser (Chui and Dao) have identical stats apart from the AP? And that the carrier has a better isolated systems save? To my mind, I will take the carrier and play it as a cruiser! That's why I see the SAW as disposable!

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Chui has 5 conscripts rather than 8, fuel reserves, and strategic value 25. (In exchange for the 4 SAW)

 

The isolated systems point is interesting though...it might actually be a typo even?

 

If the Chui come forward in an early advance, (being played like cruisers), the China player is at some risk. I would tend to sweep towards that advance with the goal of sinking a couple and maybe prizing one. (In this case of two sunk and one prize, the squadron represents a 400 VP gain for China's opponent.) Of course as always with such thoughts, everything depends on the tactical situation as it plays out in-game.

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So? You just lost 3 tft. Which has managed to destroy a 5 wing tft of your opponent because swarm tactics and another 3 wing tft..which is still alive. After killing all your oponent tft you change your 5 wings and go after the rest.

It depends what you want your wings to do. If you wnt to spam activations destroy his tft than hammer the rest of his fleet with what you have left than that is a viable option

 

I rather like saving my SAS in order to retask/replenish them, if I can.

Moreover, tell me how you destroy a full wing of 5 with only 8 dices (3 SAW + swarm tactics). You have to be very lucky, and even more against faction like FSA ou PLC and their DR3.

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I did mention a second tft wing 3. ;) making it 2x8 aa

Also why mention fsa? They dont get a bonus on their fighters in dogfights? Their tft are quite average.

 

My mistake, they only have DR3 during interceptions. Still valid for PLC or other ones though.

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So uh.... whats a mark III jian?

A mythical Jian with fore and aft turrets to go with the Primary broadside. I noticed my Chinese Naval boxed set had a spare 2 turrets and inserts, and the Jian has 2 spaces for them...

Ph34r me, I've already painted those turret inserts! And finished the Feilong...

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What does everyone think about the chinese naval units?

 

I have played several games (vs Prussians, FSA, and Covenant) and they seem to be a little under powered for the points.   Am I missing something?

 

Tanis

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Hello Tanis.

 

 

I am not sure what exactly is the root cause of your struggles with the Chinese fleet, but to my mind and experience it is not under-powered. What situations have you been running into against your three main opposing fleets?

 

What models do you often use? (And what do you have available?) I do not have a lot to offer on the ground theater, but naval and air I find to be strong enough, yet in balance for fair games. (The Sky Fortress is I think currently considered to be quite above average, where the Zhan used to be thought of before getting bonked a little with the nerf-bat, which was needed.)

 

I will say this....I find that with many squadrons the challenge to playing a Chinese naval core is limited firing arcs for main weapons, and the need to maneuver to get in a few good broadside attacks that go "both ways". )Meaning if I can get in a few good shots where I am able to use broadsides to both left and right, especially with the Jian BB and Dao cruisers, I often do very well in those battles.) The reason this is true is that if I have maneuvered into position to use both sides of a Jian, or front and one or both sides on a group of Dun....I am making a lot of decent attacks. It gives me several chances to get "lucky", and roll several 6's to cause heavy damage. I don't care if one of my broadsides has to fire at an obscured target at range band 3....that is actually a wonderful chance if it is my "secondary" broadsides target. For example, if I am making an RB-2 broadside attack, and a fore gun attack, at range band 2 with my Dao cruisers....I am doing very well. If I can get even two of them aligned such that I can get in an RB-3 attack to the other side on some medium flyers...say the FSA Lee for example...that is a bonus 6 dice chance to maybe roll a pair of 6's and a 5....then roll for exploding dice and maybe get a bonus crit on the Lee's. Getting into position for that sort of attack wins games if you can manage it.

 

My best other bit of "general" advice is that i often do well with China when I give my enemy too many targets that all need to be a priority. For example a Jian mk-1 steaming ahead with those broadsides needs to get a lot of enemy attention. (At RB-1 it does not take any negative to hit, and is a potential boarding threat, plus it can ram, and the forward fixed heavy flamers are tertiary, so even a heavy damaged Jian can cause problems if it gets close to your enemy. However, if your opponent fixates on your Jian, your Dao cruisers may get close...and they also have some decent firepower, as well as a terrifying 24 conscripts with which to board your enemy's vessels. If your enemy fixates on said cruisers, your Jian may get in close with little damage....or your Yue destroyers may close in, with an incredible gush of fire as a result...

 

Often I might set up these vessels behind a pair of advanced deployment bastions, such that surface long range firepower is not especially useful against them. (Hopefully allowing me one turn of advancing move with some protection....China is not a long rang power for the most part.) In a larger game adding a Zhan dread means I have three points from which to generate my "great wall" shield.

 

Another other thing that can work out very well, (if your CoA opponent uses a lot of drones), is to load up n your own carrier forces. Chinese SAS fighters can help sweep the skies clean, and with new drone rules you may suddenly find yourself with total air superiority against a CoA opponent...which they will no doubt find a rude thing to endure rather than inflict.

 

Final note....Nu frigates are sometimes underrated by people. A 4DR 5CR small with -1 attack dice pool from most enemy attacks due to Rugged Construction makes for a very tough frigate. The attack dice pools are not huge, but they are still quite good up close even after losing one vessel. You can often maneuver for a linked 10AD attack to the front, and a 10AD broadside attack, all from range band two.  (They can hunt enemy smalls wonderfully even after losing 2 of a squadron of 4.) Just be very wary against CoA , and avoid bunching up and getting wiped out by a particle accelerator. A unit of Zeno's are wonderful for wiping out Chinese smalls. (Due to three individual PA attacks, which ignore Rugged, and hit on a 5+ anyhow, same as a primary weapon would against smalls.)

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Morning Tanisdragon,

 

An excellent post from BuckDhrama.  Lots of "spot on" comments.  My 3 main fleets are Brits, Russian and Chinese, and I really rate my Chinesee.  2 years ago I won the RAF Wargaming Associations D Wars tourney (okay, there was only 10 of us in the event, but some of them are pretty competent!) with my Chinese.  

 

The Chinese smalls can really annoy folks, and they have boarding threats across the board.  Yes, they are conscripts - but when you are rolling LOTS of dice.......

 

So take your fleet to your opponents with confidence - and remember, it's all about enjoyment!

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Buck: One question with the Jian MK1.  How you getting the 'no negatives at RB1 with the broadsides?  The broadsides are primary and the ship does not have the Close Quarters Gunnery MAR.

I got this notion by posting very late at night and also by being a doofus. Jian definitely takes the -1 on attack dice at RB 1 with broadsides. Only flame thrower is unaffected.

I shall hang my head I shame......my apologies!

Luckily the tactical point is at least still usable/valid.

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Oh didn't even notice that it was primary man that would help kill off some dudes yes.

 

How are you guys running the floating bastions? id love to run some but they seem pretty easy to knock out for what they do.

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I treat the Bastions as turn one, and sometimes early turn two ablative armor. (Not the MAR, but actual armor.)

 

What I mean by that is my bastions, and the field they provide, increase the chances that I can begin turn two with relatively undamaged forces, who begin their move in range band 3, and I can begin to maneuver for attack runs. Other than rockets, as China I do not have much for range band 4, and my sweet spot is range band 1 or 2 depending on the unit. My bastions are to get me out of range 4 and into range 3 safely. My opponent is very likely to kill the bastions, which is fine, as they are there to absorb enemy fire.

 

Around this time they are destroyed, but the job is done. Sometimes things don't go so well, and a couple of early crits can cause you to loose a bastion on turn one. This leaves you vulnerable early, which is what you are trying to avoid. (Bastions used to some in groups of 3....the two bastion limit means losing just one brings down the shield, unless you go for two pair, or a Zhanmadao. I am usually not taking two unless it is a larger game. At 1500 I might take 4 bastions and a Zhan, and really ensure my wall lasts for a while. In that case I may stagger the bastions in advance placement, with the Zhan on one flank. The shield will link to the Zhan if I set it up right, and I will use that to protect my flank on the side of the board my enemy can bring in flanking forces from, if he has any, or the side n which he may have put any forces that could move to flank me quickly and shoot me from and angle my shield cannot help.)

 

I personally think Bastions are less valuable against any force focused on flanking. Such forces often do not have good rang band 4 weaponry, and most of their units will want to close with you in any case. In that scenario I may just put my Bastions in the center area and use them to hunt smalls that rush forward, while making a small effort to shield a key vulnerable unit for one turn, such as Yue destroyers.

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Thank you everyone for the information.    I think I have figured out the problem I am having.  It is two fold;

 

1) We have been doing smallish battles 500-750 points which limits my options.

2) I have been focusing on a strictly naval force.

 

The last task force I used was MK2 Jian Battleship, 2x Dao Cruisers, and 4 Yue Destroyers coming in at 505 points. 

 

-Tanis

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If you're going to play games lower than 800pts, you should play with the house rules that the 1+ large/massive model requirement is removed, and that the flagship can be any Capital model if you have no large/massive in your fleet.

This will free up some points, and provides the feeling of a small picket patrol encountering an enemy raiding party/scouting detachment/etc

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Thank you everyone for the information.    I think I have figured out the problem I am having.  It is two fold;

 

1) We have been doing smallish battles 500-750 points which limits my options.

2) I have been focusing on a strictly naval force.

 

The last task force I used was MK2 Jian Battleship, 2x Dao Cruisers, and 4 Yue Destroyers coming in at 505 points. 

 

-Tanis

I find that the game is wasted when played at anything lower than 1000pts.

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I noticed today that new descriptions were added to the Chinese boxed sets in addition to the usual "As the World War rages, a new giant awakens in the Far East - the forces of the Chinese Federation arise to take a stand against those who would violate its territory"

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