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Official Thread: Ottoman Empire

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yeah but on paper its comparible to a french magenta......

the magenta though has way more firepower and defence in the cloud gen

guess the problem stems from Primary guns and secondary broadsides....which most nations struggle with apart fron France

The primary guns aren't the main weapon. The broadsides are. Now the team has more pace than the French, for a better points price.

+1 DR is pretty handy. I maintain that +1 to the actual stat is the best defense because absolutely nothing bypasses it!

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With all the negative feedback ottomans received here in the forum I never dared to field them, as it sounded like an auto-loose, no matter your skill or enemy... Didn't someone say they struggle to get a draw against operational assets? Mildly exaggerating here of course. *cough *

So I looked forward to seeing the update. Still the ottomans aren't as strong as many other fleets.

I have all the models, because they just look awesome and I will give them a try soon. Having two different crew types and rule sets sounds interesting and promises different play styles with the same fleet.

But I am curious. Having started with V2, I don't know about the Uber-Ottomans. Can somebody tell me what made them so strong before? Forced activation order because of the way their gens work must have been a problem before? Did they have higher AD? Better sustained fire? More corrosive?

And maybe a few hints on list building? Destroyers seem to have a good reputation (not like stolz').

Is a second box useful? Or better buying singles, as a second Dread won't see much(any) tabletime... depending on the monitors I guess. What are your suggestions?

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With all the negative feedback ottomans received here in the forum I never dared to field them, as it sounded like an auto-loose, no matter your skill or enemy... Didn't someone say they struggle to get a draw against operational assets? Mildly exaggerating here of course. *cough *

So I looked forward to seeing the update. Still the ottomans aren't as strong as many other fleets.

I have all the models, because they just look awesome and I will give them a try soon. Having two different crew types and rule sets sounds interesting and promises different play styles with the same fleet.

But I am curious. Having started with V2, I don't know about the Uber-Ottomans. Can somebody tell me what made them so strong before? Forced activation order because of the way their gens work must have been a problem before? Did they have higher AD? Better sustained fire? More corrosive?

And maybe a few hints on list building? Destroyers seem to have a good reputation (not like stolz').

Is a second box useful? Or better buying singles, as a second Dread won't see much(any) tabletime... depending on the monitors I guess. What are your suggestions?

It's probably easier to just show you a copy of the 1.1 ORBAT, but storms were more powerful (but didn't stack) and mines were better (high payload and stopped SAS), the mine moving gen was further (d3+2) and, most importantly, every other faction was less good.

This orbat update makes them tougher but without more punch, hence the split opinion. I, having played four successive crushing defeats and a fortunate draw, like these changes.

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I'm looking forward to seeing some battlereports with the new orbat. Been looking at Ottomans as allies for my French fleet for a while. I think they can bring some nice utility to the french fleet.

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In terms of list building, those cards have taken a bit of a shuffle with the new list, but there are two major types of fleet that you can build really:

Skimmer brawling, where the core is Sadrazams, fettahs, mizrak and Avci, bulking it out with more of the same and playing speed, boarding (even stoic hit on 4s so either fleet would manage this) and general "getting up in the grille".

Ship ranged fleets, based more around the kanuni and hisar at the center, sinops on the flank, zuhaf spotting (YAY!) and CAP heavy play. I've not run a full list based on this because it is slightly (read very) less points efficient and there's a lot of SV in those massives.

Mixing the styles tends to reduce the efficiency of either, but avci are, as you point out, a must-have in either fleet.

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The activation dependence is frustrating, but once the storms start arriving the models you choose to protect become less and less viable targets with each protection.

Stacking up to black 6s is fun ;)

If you really want to see your enemy weep throw in a nemesis with a dilation gen.

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If you really want to see your enemy weep throw in a nemesis with a dilation gen.

Or just play all Black Wolf with that Nemesis as their update was actually decent. They are a slower fleet that throws a better punch compared to Ottomans.

 

I will give my Ottomans a fair try, but I still don't see how they will take on my regular opponent's Blazing Sun or Prussians any better than they did before. Especially since I also play Black Wolf and HEC and their updates were really solid.

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What staggering negativity.

How about play them, then come back with your notes. Like I did. Five times (albeit that I haven't managed to update the forum to the latter 3, 2 horrendous losses and a close draw).

 

I cannot support this enough. Lerriano has consistently helped promote the Ottomans, provided useful battle reports that fed into the changes, and did so without forgetting that insulting the people you want do do things for you is not a good idea.

 

Once people have had a chance to have a few reported games with the new Orbats, and get used to it, then their feedback becomes rather more useful than  simply writing it off the whole force on inspection.

 

James

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I think that the new Fettah might be competing for being one of the best value mediums in the game now. Solid on it's own, but with spectacular synergy potential. Sure it is a short range brawler....but with 10 inch move and skimming, plus GNE gen assistance...these follows can get stuck in right quick.

I prefer Ottoman Traditionalists as well.....so the 12 aggressive marines.....icing on my proverbial cake.

I have enough Fettah to make a list built around two full squadrons and a Tigris squadron or two on the side.

I wonder how this might perform in a 1k game....

2d Sadrazam w/GNE

6x Fettah

4x Avci

4x Mizrak

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Getting the mine controllers to 24" is a big deal which combined with Zuhaf tweaks really restores mines as an Ottoman nasty trick.

 

Don't forget that the Zuhaf also has Spotter(regular).

 

This really promotes keeping the Zuhafs back at the start of the game and not lay their mines, but spotting for the Bombards instead. Since you're a surface skimming fleet, you keep your ships in cover as much as possible and use indirect fire. Once you break cover your Zuhafs will be moving forward in front of the fleet (higher movement rate) and lay their mines close to the enemy lines.

 

Then have your big ships move those mines...

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Do the MARS make that HUGE a difference? The stats for the actual models are the same. 

 

Whilst Trads have advantages closer in and Sep's have less - the ships are still effectively the same DR, CR, Attack Dice..... etc etc

 

So are the Trad's so massively advantaged?

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Not really, just a different playstyle.

 

The traditionalists are for very aggressive play, while the Separatists are for the more cautious player. If you're going up against a boarding heavy faction, some extra boarding defense might just be the thing for you.

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Do the MARS make that HUGE a difference? The stats for the actual models are the same. 

 

Whilst Trads have advantages closer in and Sep's have less - the ships are still effectively the same DR, CR, Attack Dice..... etc etc

 

So are the Trad's so massively advantaged?

As any danish play can testify, boarding is a very effective way to ruin an opponent because your ship can still do it at full effectiveness regardless of its HP, and if you're boarding things that your opponent is unlikely to recapture you're looking at double points for prizes.

This makes the aggressive crew 25% more helpful, especially combined with effective RB1 firepower and sharpshooters, who can fire on the ship you're boarding on 5s and (red) 6s. So a unit of fettah can theoretically throw themselves 10+2d3" towards an enemy, let's say cruiser squad, heavily cripple two of them, sharpshoot 1-2 AD off the third then land 12 angry janissaries on it.

It's a hard hitting unit if timed well.

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As being the mentioned Ottoman player in Czech Rep. I feel obliged now to throw in my report, so here it goes ;)

 

I haven´t played the OE since the last update as they have been nerfed horrendously and just did not make me go for a certain loss. So this battle was my first battle after a year of not playing the DW, therefore it was more about learnig the rules again than trying to score high. My list comprised of every kind of unit I had, as I wanted to try as many of the new rules as possible.

Hence my 1000pts list:

Ottoman Empire: Separatists
Large/Massive:
Sadrazam Battleship + Mine control, 3x Mizrak Frigate (Escort)
Medium:
2x Sinop Monitor + 2x3 Fighter SAS
3x Fettah cruiser + Weather Manipulation G.
Small:
4x Avci destroyer :wub:
4x Mizrak Frigate
3x Zuhaf Minelayer

SAS  Support 2x5 Dive bomber

Pre-battle thoughts: I painted my Ottomans to represent Bulgarian separatists, which is why I went for the Seps. My idea was the following: Sadrazam will provide cover for its escort. Once they close in on the enemy, the healthy escort is going to unleash the broadside/volley gun hell. Zuhafs shall spott big ships and cover the bombers´ adavnce with their AA and Airburst mines. The previously spotted large ship is going to be shot at by Sinops budou ostřelovat Sinopy and their caustic bombards, while using their fighters to fend off enemy bombers. The Mizraks are there to take care of anything that would close up too fast on my larger ships, I will put them in the middle to be able to cover both sides of the table. My sides are left with Fettahs, which should support the middle and repell anything comming at me from their side of the table. I will place them on the right. Left side is reserved for my Avci :wub: , their goal was to look diffident and then, later on, hurl themselves into the battle and beat someone up. At that moment I did not know against whom I would be playing, so this changed quite a bit as I met my opponent:

Player: Gobbos Nation: FSA
Liberty Battleship - shield a comodore
Liberty Battleship - shield
San Francisco Assault carrier - rockets, Fighter SAS a Harry Spotter
Medium:
Anapolis Battlecruiser Rockets and kinetic
Lexington Light cruiser 3x Kinetic
Small:
3x Little frigate with the wheel in the middle and 2 reckless marines
SAS: Spotter, 4 Fighters, 5 Bombers

Deploy: I deployed roughly as I wrote above, but I had to shift the whole formation to the left because the yankees had a Liberty, a carrier, Annapolis BC and Lexingtons there. Comodore´s Liberty went to the right pravo with the frigates. I put my Fetahs and Mizraks thee to take care of it. The rest was on the left, to take care of the main force. Avci  :wub:  were looking at the Anapolis, it looked so yummy to the little gangsters.

Round 1: Yankees have more activations, I hav to move my smalls, so I don´t give the enemy an appealing. They spott mi Sadrazam, but I don´t mind, he is behind a rock and hitting him on 5 in the 4th RB isn´t going to do much. I let my Zuhafs go ahead, pooping mines to cover my bombers while spotting the Anapolis, which is closer to me since not even Sinop bombards can touch a shielded liberty at RB4. The plan is broken the moment when the Lexingtons rocket themselves into RB 2. And I freak out because their guns look like those on the Liberty and there´s Three of them!!! 2.gif . The fact, that they are by far not as powerful somehow slipped from my attention 18.gif  . They only mannage to kill a Zuhaf, as all aother ships are in cover behind rocks. Nonetheless I panic because of the Lex-rush and activate my Sadrazam using it in a completely different way than i meant to before. I Activate Meltemi´s Fury, smoke my BB and churn out 2 storms covering my Fetahs and the Sad. Then I take on the Lexingtons, my escorts going in front of the big guy looking to supress this Lex-threat. Sadrazam squad sinks one Lexington and the second one getts a critical hit. Anapolis tries to retaliate but only mannages to kill a Mizrak from the Sad-squad. Anapolis is then hit with anti-Geneva-treaty corosive bomard which is a crit. Fetahs ( anf it was a bad mistake) vigorously rocket themselves to shoot at the comodore´s Liberty dealing only 1 DMG 18.gif  . Meanwhile I underestimated the little frigates which, despite spec. deffs and stoic crew and AA managed to prize one fettah and kill the other one...

Round two: Sadrazam is punished severely, but sneaks off some good shooting regardless of the 2 crits. - It beats the therd lexington, and dammages the Liberty. Sadrazam´s escort is dead. I take my revenge on the Liberty without the comodore, the Sinops deal 2 crits with their monster-killer-corosive-ponyslayer-mega-death-bombard (I love sinops). My right wing is chopped to pieces, I have a last Fettah, which kill a frigate, following up is his destruction by Liberty. My Mizraka kill off the remaining frigates.

4 corosives melt the non-comodore Liberty to 1 remaining HP.

Round 3: Sadrazam is slain but mannages to kill a Lex in the process. Annapolis kills my remaining Zúhafs but gets in range for my Avci  :wub:  . One Salvo is all i need, Anapolis is sunk. One Avci is then obliterated by San Francisco. Mizraks deal another DMG to the comodore Liberty At this moment de Sadrazam is dead and my units are disordered. My bombers fail to do anything at all. Sinops then mannage to kill the non- comodore Liberty.


Round 3: Avci  :wub:  damage the Frisco, but it kills them for doing that, it also rearms Fighters to bombers which hit on the Sinops. Sinops shrug them off and fire their Satan´s-tears-filled Bombards at the San Francisco. which is then teleported into a rock and thence scraped.

Game end - a draw.

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