Jump to content
pancakeonions

Official Thread: Ottoman Empire

Recommended Posts

Very pleased with the adjustments. All of them really.

 

This plus new models in the works...yay the Ottoman Empire is once again a proper nation!

 

I do understand some who wanted larger dice pools. Having said that, I think I like this even better. (Just to be different is good, as long as I can still compete. Sort of like the CoA in terms of not having a lot of huge dice pools, yet still capable.) The notion now is better value per model, (more survive-ability), and more variations. (GNE options, better mine control gens, different crew types....plus improved commodore mine ability! All fun tricks for the tool box.)

 

I also think that the specialist squadron of one 1xFettah + 3xMizrak is an interesting option for 145 points. (No cloud gen on Fettah in this case.) This strikes me as an amazing way to protect advancing units from enemy corvettes and such. With so much movement and skimming, you can hope to swing these guys into range band two of an enemy unit before they can charge and board. (Or range one, but let's assume two here.) The Fettah can shoot over cleverly positioned small squadrons to reach the "screened" units, and the frigates can target the more exposed units...what with Fettah being a skimming medium and able to see over any smalls with no penalty and all that.

 

So, dice pools for going after smalls would look like this?

Fettah broadsides at AD-6 hitting on 5+ (Sustaiined fire for 2 dice.)

Fettah linked volley guns at AD-6 hitting on 5+

Mizrak linked broadsided at AD-6 hitting on 4+ (Or 5+ depending on target MARs)

Mizrak linked turrets at AD-8 hitting on 4+ (Or 5+ depending on target MARs)

(This seems like a nice way to take down 2-3 Corvettes, or Frigates, in any advancing group.)

 

This assumes no targets of broadsides to the other side of any of the squadron. Also you can hit flyers with all the volley guns given the opportunity.

 

4 Mizraks is always good, but if I had a list where I had a bit of points left to use, I would pop them into upgrading one Miz squadron to this witha a spare 25....I really like the idea of the ability to hit both near and far elements of a well positioned unit of smalls with 4 attacks that could all do something. (No "half AD" issues for shooting the screened models from the Fettah.)

 

Also can hunt mediums quite well with linking between all the volley turrets, as well as broadsides. (Granted losing sustained-2 in that case for the broadsides, but still a way to build a bit bigger AD pool.) if you get to range one with an enemy BB for some strange reason with this group lightly damaged....you can put together one 15 AD and one 14 AD pool in an alpha strike at close range. (And no -1 to hit either as all are secondary.)

 

Not terrible for 145 points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The updates are decent no doubt, this will not move the ottomans from the bottom I fear, while points reductions are nice, nice is not what they needed, they needed two things, active cloud generators and higher attack dice pools. Ofc this would mean the slight rewording of the weather generators :)

 

The ad pools being low and the activation throttle are the two things, I would say needed to be sorted out the most, please tell me if I'm wrong ottoman players?

 

Some things remain laughable, mainly the sadrazams dice pools, every decent battleship's rb2 dice pools linked can range from 16/22, the sadrazam gets ten.....

 

I thought French sas were bad, no rules at all, not even bigger fuel tanks, no doubt someone will point out they move faster, fighters really don't need extra movement :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The updates are decent no doubt, this will not move the ottomans from the bottom I fear, while points reductions are nice, nice is not what they needed, they needed two things, active cloud generators and higher attack dice pools. Ofc this would mean the slight rewording of the weather generators :)

 

The ad pools being low and the activation throttle are the two things, I would say needed to be sorted out the most, please tell me if I'm wrong ottoman players?

 

I'm thinking the mostly across the board increase in DR was a nod to "not getting your clouds in place in time" problem, but it's not really enough. The cloud gens are still an order of activation problem and even with the increased DR we are still not more survivable considering in the other updates the factions mostly received increases in AD. This makes us the same in terms of survival.

 

And the dice pools needed more dice...we will still struggle to do anything to the factions with either high HP or high DR or both.

 

The reduction in points is only enough to squeeze in some of the upgrades or SAWs and not enough to grab another squadron. So, list construction is a bit weird now.

 

The other head scratcher is we still have so many options for Internal Mine Controller and also now a Commodore ability and yet there is only 1 minelayer unit. Instead of nerfing the speed on the Arci (now Avci) which now makes it harder to get into RB2 why not change the role and have it lob mines? Before the change this was one of the better smalls we had and now not so much....

 

What are Ottomans actually good at? It would seem we are meant to be this maneuverable (skimmers), low damage, cloud and mine laying board control type of play, but it's not showing in the mechanics.

 

The Zuhaf and Mizraks are improved, but overall the lack of attack buffs and not fixing the cloud generators means we will probably play exactly the same as before which is disappointing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not if you're using my Cleomedes squadron it isn't! Last night's game, RC gunships from fine to ocean floor, from wave lurking!

 

But more seriously, if you can pull off that sort of defensive measure, it deserves rewarding. Especially since without it, they're quite vulnerable- I was looking over the Kanuni, and before activation is has no additional defensive capability outside CR13- which sounds like a lot, but I can't think of a single model of that cost that doesn't include some form of extra defence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With cloud and storm, it now takes 4 sixes to glance the Sadrazam.

That's a pretty hefty AD investment.

Except that the Sadrazam wants to be RB2 and have multiple arcs (i.e. in the middle of a scrum) for its broadsides and volley guns to bring to bear in order to really contribute to the fight.

 

At that range band, other armies are not going to find this a problem to glance it (or destroy it with 8HPs). If you're being defensive with it at RB3-4 then that's 175-90 that's not really contributing much except possibly points denial and are probably better off bringing 2 Sinops for approximately the same points to sit in those bands where they can actually do something meaningful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets see how they play now before decrying the update. There are a lot of good changes, some simply excellent choices now exist in the Ottoman orbat.

For people looking at the Sadrazam battleship and moaning about its AD output, let us take a quick look at the Independence battleship (not particularly highly rated, but similar in price.)

 

Independence has 2 turrets (12/10/8/6) and options for a rocket battery of 7/8/9, some fore/aft volley guns of 6/4/-/- and broadsides of 8/6/3.

The turrets have sustained fire 1. The only weapon systems that doesn't care about damage are the volley guns and the rockets.

 

Sadrazam has 2 turrets of 9/7/5/3, four ofset volley guns of 5/4 and broadsides of 12/10/8/6.

The turrets are corrosive and the broadsides are redoubtable. Damage only really hurts the turrets. Broadsides are sustained fire 2.

 

So, since the Independence turrets at the same spread as the sadrazam broadsides, I would say those two are fairly equal HOWEVER the turrets can link together and are much easier to use.

The volley guns of the sadrazam link for 8/6, which is better than the independence volley guns but not really a fearsome weapon. useful though.

The Sadrazam turrets link for 14/11/8/5 (which is quite good with corrosive) but suffer from damage greatly. Better than the Independence rockets though in my opinion. Certainly better than the independence broadsides.

 

So, purely in terms of firepower, the two are not terribly different in how many AD they can spit out... except that the Independence can link its turrets to take on a large/massive enemy. The Sadrazam struggles to do so. Additionally, the Independence has more flexibility in its weapon arcs. The Sadrazam has other strengths though, including being cheaper.

 

Fettahs compare favourably with any other cruiser.

Avci (sp?) are still spitting out high AD levels.

Mizraks are going strong too.

 

Not really considered the other ships yet, since now I have to go and shout at people in a musical manner. Looks like Ottomans might have a hole in their ORBAT regarding something that can go and bash large/massives... but that hasn't stopped the CoA! :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Except that the Sadrazam wants to be RB2 and have multiple arcs (i.e. in the middle of a scrum) for its broadsides and volley guns to bring to bear in order to really contribute to the fight.

At that range band, other armies are not going to find this a problem to glance it (or destroy it with 8HPs). If you're being defensive with it at RB3-4 then that's 175-90 that's not really contributing much except possibly points denial and are probably better off bringing 2 Sinops for approximately the same points to sit in those bands where they can actually do something meaningful.

To be honest, if the Sadrazam is so toothless, why waste all the AD to hit it on 6s?

The GNE makes it a pretty hefty speed demon of a large, or supplier of speed demonry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those of you who think you can't get decent dice pools:

 

Try a Sadrazam with 3 mizrak attached. Calculate your dice pool with broadsides and volley guns.18/15/11/6 for broadsides and 15/12 for volley guns.

 

This isn't a huge dicepool, but it gets the job done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those of you who think you can't get decent dice pools:

 

Try a Sadrazam with 3 mizrak attached. Calculate your dice pool with broadsides and volley guns.18/15/11/6 for broadsides and 15/12 for volley guns.

 

This isn't a huge dicepool, but it gets the job done.

 

Well but it costs 265 points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have to agree that the Sad is still under-gunned.

Does it have enough of a role as a "utility BB", to be considered a bit more like a CoA vessel?

What if it went all out on utility, maybe with the boost to a weather manipulation gen at a rating of 4 points? (Maybe as an upgrade?) Here was my thought, this would make it a very different role. Put your commodore on it in 1K games for a massive area control trick on turn one or first activation turn 2...whatever suits your battle plan....the role is to sacrifice some offense for massive utility value.

I am excited by the ORBAT update, but agree that Sadrazam is not seemingly deigned for the traditional BB role.

Would it be OP if Ottomans had a national rule allowing broadsides with sustained fire to keep the MAR, even when linked to non-sustained broadside attacks? Such as Sad or Kanuni with Mizrak escorts.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question is, how did the playtesters use the Sad? They must have used one and the dice pools it generates.

 Last time I used one,  it sat in the centre of the line, provided cover, and used gunnery to pound mediums, and GNE boosted cruisers who swept over an island to ideal broadside and board position, and  very almost won the game....that target really should have had the decency to sink, but 4 corrosion markers failed to remove the one remaining hull point!

 

It didn't get to use full brawling potential, partly as my opponent wanted to avoid giving it  perfect targets, and partly as I hadn't planned to use it as such.

 

In general, I find all the broadside heavy fleets do take more planning to make the most of.

 

James

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The sustained fire basically makes the broadside 14/12/10/8, which is pretty awesome.

The main turrets are very much our 'nice to have' weapon system, I've found that our ability to soak fire in clouds and storms enables brawling and now aggressive crew and GNE AND sharpshooters will make the fettah our powerhouse for taking larges, ally in some geiers to help tesla off crew from range. The Sadrazam is not a bad ship, especially for its price.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah but on paper its comparible to a french magenta......

the magenta though has way more firepower and defence in the cloud gen

guess the problem stems from Primary guns and secondary broadsides....which most nations struggle with apart fron France

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.