Jump to content
myth28

What Models Stats Need Changing ?

Recommended Posts

I'd like to tone down a few units in the French fleet- mainly changes to match stats to the models better- and up the costs on lots of them, as  many are under priced.

 

The Vauban is a monster, no doubt, but it should be. We include the two Dreadnaught class vessels that aren't officially Dreadnaughts, for the strategic objective and limited availability. That reigns it in considerably.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Prussians need more/better tesla. Two things:

- The Walze has better P/S tesla batteries than ALL the Mediums, be it because of its better mobility and smaller channel (allowing for more precision) or because of a better statline (yeah, the small tank packs a better lightning than the AV-6, perfectly logical)

- Anything Medium or bigger shouldn't throw 2AD in any range band. That's just paying points for nothing, especially on stuff that can't link because of crappy arcs.

 

There's also the fact that almost all of them are P/S fixed channel, which is terrible but unlikely to ever change (because the models are this way, that's all).

 

 

As for my faction (RC):

- The Naval Dreadnought could do with +1CR to put it at the Charlemagne's level. That or better gens to make the DN more than a Borodino with too many guns. Its status as the world's best generator bunny would mean a lot more if those generators brought something. Actually, screw the CR, just replace those overpriced Rocket Jammers by some Markovian goodness.

- The Land Dreadnought needs a resilience boost. Mobile Airfields bring more activations, slightly lesser but still good guns (or totally equal, in the Brunel's case), more staying power, and aren't worth 350 points.

- Perhaps doing something about Hard Shell. I like the way it has been handled in AC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ablative Armour isn't too hot when you pay it -2CR and -4 shield dice. Or, compared to the Charly, -1CR, no Retardant Armour and no Cloud Gen. Lack of damage mitigation is a huge problem on a ship:

- without Redoubtable/Rocket/Torps

- without boarding options (because you need all the AP you get for anti-boarding)

- that can't do much outside of RB2

- that can't sit on the back line waiting for an opportunity (unlike the BB and Carrier, the Moskva needs to be in the middle of the ennemy fleet, you pay 80 points for those linked broadsides)

- that cost an arm and a leg (not a problem for most DNs, but RC's design is supporting your ships with your other ships. 100 points spent on guns are 100 points not spent on surviving)

 

Now, I'm not for +1CR. It would lessen the need for babysitting (escorts, repair ships, screening mediums, icebergs) but it's bland. I would rather give a real array of generators to the DN, allowing it to support its bodyguards in true RC fashion. For example, replacing the Mimic by a Glacier (2) and one of the Rocket Jammer (3) by a Torpedo Breaker (3), giving us the full Markov toolkit on the flagship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Three come immediately to mind:

 

1. The FSA Corvette is a wasted model. How can it be a corvette but not faster.

 

2. The CoA dread is overpriced for the amount of fire power it can put on one facing compared to other dreads. 

 

3. LOVE the CoA destroyer, but why did it get produced so BIG. Maybe the next generation could be 30-40% smaller? (That would mean buying more I guess...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amongst the factions I play, theese models need improvement:

 

France:

Magenta,Toulon and Lyon have been discussed many times. The Ecouyer needs +1 speed. Marseille, Alma and Furieux should be 5 points cheaper.

 

EoBS:

Hachiman, Sokotsu, Nakatsu and Yurgi have been discussed many times. Onryo and Tsukuyomi should be 10 points cheaper. Kiyohime needs +1 HP and combat launch. Fujin needs +1 CR. All EoBs rockets should have incendiary rounds. It is very confusing to differ which unit has and wich does not.

 

KoB:

The Eagle needs better weapons or a decrease in points. Merlin, Hawk:and Vanguard should be 5 points cheaper.

 

Units that need a nerf:

John Henry, FSA dreadnought

 

I still think that most dreadnoughts are ill blanced, see here:

http://community.spartangames.co.uk/index.php?/topic/4062-fixing-the-dreadnoughts/#entry58901

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Magenta,Toulon and Lyon have been discussed many times.

Yes, one unit that needs help, one that is average and people claim it's bad because it's average in a slightly very good fleet, and one perfectly servicable ship that needs some thought in being used. Didn't know not being point and click is now a massive flaw in wargames.

The Ecouyer needs +1 speed. Marseille, Alma and Furieux should be 5 points cheaper.

And that's based on them not being completely broken I guess? Plese give a rationale as to why does the Eccy need to be at Mv7, and why does the Marseillies need to be at 60pts when it's easily in the top 3 of current cruisers. Alma I can kind of agree, but Furieux is again, one of the best medium skyships, with Lees and Inaris being better and everything else being slightly inferior (or as good, see the Pflicht).

 

Seriously, in French list, only the Magenta mk1 needs a serious look into, the rest of the units are all either serviceable is not first-pick units, or just plain good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am reluctant to discuss the Lyon once again. There is nothing new to say any more.

The Furieux ist very vulnerable for its points, and has signigicantly weaknesses in its best Range. This is RB1. There it will get counter attack AA before fireng, reducing its broadsides and breaking them down significantly. I personally rather take cheaper Voltaires instead.

The Ecouyer is slower than the units it has to escort. Further, it is very predictable. I often find enemy flyers lungering at 22,1 " away from the Ecouyer, then ascending at the units it tries to protect next turn. There is enough time to strike before the Ecouyer can react, because the French have to activate the cloud generator units first.

The Marseille is below average for its points, even if campared the the MK1 Magenta. Three Marseilles are more expensive than a Magenta with cloud generator, but weaker. They also lack the the protection of RA and the cloud generator. If You say the MAgenta is bad, then You have to admit that the Marseilles are worse. If You compare the Marseilles to better units than the Magenta (for exampe the Voltaires), it becomes even more odd. I think at 5 points less, they would be finde.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

France:

Magenta,Toulon and Lyon have been discussed many times. The Ecouyer needs +1 speed. Marseille, Alma and Furieux should be 5 points cheaper.

I've been the genesis of many of the Magenta discussions on the RoF page lately, so I won't rehash them here. The Toulon needs a price drop and/or a squadron size boost. And there isn't a damn thing wrong with the Lyon. It may be slow-ish, but once it's in and amongst the enemy it's a good ship.

The Ecouyer is plenty fast enough if supporting the Charlemagne, but the +1 speed would let it keep up with the CV and BB so I can see that.

The Alma is a maybe, but the other two? I don't see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Furieux ist very vulnerable for its points

As are almost all medium flyers except the Lees and Inaris, both easily the best medium flyers in the game. You don't HAVE to get into Rb1 for it to be effective, if you wish to remain un-countered you can stay in rb2 and still use it's impressive 6AD. It's a trade-off and part of the tactics. An unit without downsides is a bad unit. Same with Ecuyer- it has a downside, it means it is a well-designed unit. You can either risk that tiny window of opportunity, or keep the "escorted" units moving at a slower pace. Again, a genuine tactical decision.

 

As for the Marsillies, all I can say is that they consistently are the best ships in my fleet whenever I play, dealing damage far above their weight and surviving reasonable punishment due to their R-Armor. If you decide to not have R-armor, which makes them fragile, but no more fragile than the prussian Reivers, they are the cheapest cruisers around and with awesome punch for those points. They are most certainly not 60pts ships. I know that Lexingtons are, but they are undercosted in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been the genesis of many of the Magenta discussions on the RoF page lately, so I won't rehash them here. The Toulon needs a price drop and/or a squadron size boost. And there isn't a damn thing wrong with the Lyon. It may be slow-ish, but once it's in and amongst the enemy it's a good ship.

The Ecouyer is plenty fast enough if supporting the Charlemagne, but the +1 speed would let it keep up with the CV and BB so I can see that.

The Alma is a maybe, but the other two? I don't see it.

I've not used the almas yet, but my Ecouyer quite easily ruin anything flying that they need to deal with. And if you're so desperate to cloud your BB that you drop a RBII super AA + Gunnery attack against a vulnerable flier...you should stop fearing so much for your BB? take the shot, it pays off more in the long run. I also feel that keeping it slightly slower is only fair for the firepower the Ecouyer already supplies against aircraft, it is a beast. Lyon's do quite well as well and I also agree on the Toulon...but that is a fight raging quite thoroughly elsewhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We've hammered out some broken stats in our group, but there are some WIPs that not only have not be fixed yet, but are proving to be a bit of a pain:

 

Freedom-The FSA suicide boarder.  One run, and then its dead.  Crappy guns, plus too costly.  We have tried boosting the guns, lowering point cost, and MARs, but this little sucker is still not that great.

 

Japanese Dread-The worst dread in the game, with the dumbest weapon for a dread ever: mines.  This is proving to be a pain cause of its guns, everything else has been worked out.

 

Revere- a 20-point speed bump, nothing more.  Another one we have been working on for a while to no avail.  Recently we tried Hit and Run, that worked okay but then we need to raise the movement... at which point someone pointed out that even if it could strike and run its guns probably wouldn't hurt much.  Back to the drawing board...

 

Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head, there is one or two more I will post later if I remember.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.