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The Relthoza: New Small Ship Discussion.

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The most expensive of my small ship suggestions, I think light cruisers should be small class ships.   Thus they are more maneuverable than cruisers, but subject to immediate death on a single critical hit.

 

 

Relthoza Barb class light cruiser (40 pts)
DR: 4 CR: 5 MV: 9" HP: 3
CP: 2 AP: 2 PD: 2 SH: 0 MN: 0 FW: 0

Fore (Fixed): 3/6/2
Port/Starboard: 2/4/2
Torps (Fore Arc): 3/3/4/4

This model is deployed in squadrons of 2-4 models

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I was thinking about small shunt ships as well:

 

1. Very small ships that can be attached to the Banes (remember they can take a flight mabye they coult take one of those each instead for higher costs but a little stronger)

 

2. Small vessels that always move by shunts (shorter range but more presise than the medium cruisers).

 

 

Another route i would love for relthoza is if they could really get a "swarm effect".

 

Very small ships on small bases with a squadron size of 3-9 or something like that. They should have Low AD but be rather save from large ships weapons and medium should have problems targeting them as well. Or maybe a rule that they cant be targeted outside of RB1 (they would have only RB1 weapons themselves), they are just too quick for the huge weapons. However they might be attacked by PD if we go this route.

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I think its pretty hard to estimate how much impact that would have on gameplay. You can compare it with the CoA Orb teleport of DW however the game plays a little different than FSA overall (e.g. you can screen your ships with other vessels there).

 

Maybe its better to just have a small vessel that can shunt itself instead of making such a experiment you suggest.

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I can envision the background of the crew of a flood ship. Since the Relthoza are good with nanites perhaps they use those as a primary weapon up close. Maybe they also use those same nanites to build the ships and clone the crews. Making them very cheap to make...

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Another option is to bring something with "real stealth" like this DW MAR:

 

ECHO CREATOR
This model is represented by an Echo Template when
Submerged. The Echo Template directly replaces the model,
keeping the same orientation. An Echo is a Naval Diving model
for the purpose of any Attack or Boarding Assault on the Echo
Template representing the model, and for Movement, Turning,
Line of Sight, Range and Arcs of Fire, as appropriate. If this model
makes a Surface move, it CAN replace ANY Echo it controls and
MUST remove any other Echo it controls from the Game Board.

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They have maneuverable so i think this woud work and would be easier to handle than some other things. BUT i think even for 10 points they need some degree of defence vs high RB attacks. Else they are just wasted points with those stats. So basically this is what i intended with the small swarm vessels but i think they have to be optimized.

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Of the ideas I've seen here, the ones I like the best are the small boarding craft (basically stand-alone Stingers) or some kind of PD buff. I would like to see a dedicated ship with lots of PD, the Bigger Batteries MAR, and not much for regular guns; but I think a ship with that rule would have to be at least a medium craft. 

 

Another option would be some kind of nanobot repair craft. Instead of firing any weapons, it can attempt to repair hull points from any one friendly Relthoza ship in RB 1. It would have to be a fairly weak ability or an expensive ship to keep that from becoming unbalancing, though. 

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I like the idea of the gate Frigates...

 

I had an idea for a small class ship from way back when the mauraders competion (won by the brethern entry) was held, I'd like to see what people think as the statline is not hugely disimilar to the Drone, but the MARs and Weapon system varies to make it a playable alternative...

 

Spitter Class Frigate
Points Cost: ?20?
Squadron: 4-6

Structural Stats: DR: 3 CR: 5 Mv: 10 HP: 2
Crew Stats: CP: 2 AP: 1
Point Defense: 1

Weapon Stats:
Turret 1
RB1: 3
RB2: 1

Turret 2
RB1: 3
RB2: 1

Rules/MARS:
Stealth Systems, Sector Shielding
OR: Defensive Targetting

Defensive targetting (DT): When this squadron with ends its activation, if no attack was fired that activation increase the PD value against attack against any ship in the squadron by 2, and the squadron gains the Stealth Systems MAR.
These benefits last until the End Phase of the current Turn.

Moleytov_New_Relthoza_zpsc8ff7898.png

Plan view, Front View, Side View, Colour coding just to match up features in each view.

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Tomorrow I will compile all the submissions that have been emailed to me so far and post the document here. Remember to get your ships in and that this whole thing ends March 8th.

 

Send your submissions to show@theblackocean.com.

 

Keep up the great work!

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Moley, not that it's not a neat picture but GW is VERY protective about its intellectual property (just look at how long Starcraft II got held up by lawsuits) and the Necrons will be wanting their gate ship back.   How about something more like the Star Wars Trade Federation's drone controller ship except the sphere in the middle is the shunt generator rather than a command module?

 

All that aside, all of these are much better suggestions than my earlier rather uninspired light cruiser one.

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Huh. how about that. I thought it loked worrying familiar but couldn't place it! :P
First I thought Battlestar but cylons are one broad curve...

Funny thing is I've never faced off a Necron with my CSM.
New design then...

I quite liked the look of the Drones sideways... maybe with a vertical component...

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What do guys think is the best way to make a ship hardly attackable at high rangebands? Still thinking about the very small swarm ships. I guess stealth systems would be they way if i want already existing MARs. That way i hope it wouldnt be worth attacking those small target at RB 3&4 and it fits perfectly to the relthoza.

 

Then if they had only usable weapons in RB1 they would have to jump across RB2 to be usefull. Seems also flavourfull to me to have a swarm attack agressively when the time has come.

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Not being a regular Relthoza player I thought I'd post this here first before submitting it to Spartan.

I really like the idea overall of the miniature carrier group. I've not been too supportive of it for the Aquans as most of the submitted proposals have had very weak attack profiles and not actually been able to carry fighters -simply resupply them.

The second biggest fighter using race in FA are the Relthoza and there is already precedent for them (in the Banes) taking small wing groups that are split across ships. Given that, and the handy MAR that Banes already have (Split Berth) - I was inspired to create the Nidus (the term refers to a nest, specifically an insect/spider/egg cluster nest) class frigate.

Relthoza Nidus Frigate (25 pts)

DR: 3 CR: 5 MV: 11" HP: 2

CP: 2 AP: 1 PD: 1 SH: 0 MN: 0 FW: 1

Fore (Fixed): 2/5/1

Port/Starboard: 2/3

This model is deployed in squadrons of 2-4 models. You may have no more than one squadron of Nidus frigates in each fleet.

MARS: Split Berth

(reminder on what Split Berth does)

ALL Wings on models in this model's Squadron MUST be the same Type. ALL Wings on models in this model's Squadron MUST Launch at the same time and MUST form ONE Flight containing a number of Wings equal to the number that just Launched. This Flight may be Deployed within 4” of ANY model that just Launched a Wing.

A Flight CANNOT Land on a model with the Split Berth MAR during a game."

So four Nidus frigates cost 100 points (120 if you buy them wings). For that 120 points you can slightly more overall firepower than a Swarm AND you bring two activations to the table. They cannot resupply their own fighters (if they take bombers) but they could be resupplied by a Hive, an Apex or a Brood if they lost a wing (likely). And four interceptors or four bombers is a powerful addition to a fleet - from my experience anything past 3 bombers will always damage ships and most likely crit most cruisers - but the limitation of one squadron per fleet should prevent the table from being spammed with dozens of flights and activations.

For inspiration on how'd they look or how they'd launch fighters, take a look and watch the shadow cruiser at 50 seconds in (this is my favourite scene of Aquans vs Relthoza :P):

Thoughts? I keep thinking my designs are way over the top then I see some of the other posts with 15 attack dice frigate groups here and I think 'ooookay, maybe my stuff isn't so bad :P'.

Zak

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What do you think of these?

 

Relthoza Collective Class Corvette (10 pts)
DR: 3 CR: 4 MV: 14" HP: 2
CP: 2 AP: 0 PD: 1 SH: 0 MN: 0 FW: 0

Turrets: 3/0/0/0

              

             

This is a SMALL CLASS  model

                   

This model MUST move 0” straight ahead before making each 45 degree turn        

                

Up to 60% of your points can be spent on SMALL SHIPS        

                

RELTHOZA COLLECTIVE CLASS CORVETTES are deployed in SQUADRONS of 3 to 9 models

            

MARs: Stealth Systems, Elusive Target

 

We could add a negative MAR that they CAN be attacked by PD due to their small size (i dont know if that would make it to easy to destroy them or not).

 

 

Description:
 

  • The idea behind these models is to pick up the “swarm aspect” of the Relthoza
        
  • These Models should come with SMALL FLIGHT BASES (like the ones used for DW small flyers), to handle their squadron size easier on the battlefield


        
  • The Models could look like very small Venoms (Relthozas Dds) i would stick to a vertical design approach, a tiny upside down version of the heavy cruiser would fit also

 

Strenghs:

  • Hard to decimate in the beginning


        
  • Can chose their targets, turrets let them focus their attack

 

Weaknesses:


  • Only 11AD maximum output for 90 points cost (Drones have 2x 11 at RB2 for 80 points)


  • Close up, an enemy can easily shoot down 3-4 and leave the rest relatively harmless


        
  • Vulnerable to assaulter flights and small ship assaulters

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Using Alexmann's ship calculator your ship comes out to 25 points due to the MARs...

 

Perhaps drop HP and CP down to 1 (and CR 3) and basically make it a large bomber.... Shunt Capable Heavy Bomber or Attack Craft. Maybe then you could be able to drop down the points 10 to 15 per model. Also I wouldn't make it a Corvette and instead a new class of ship to justify why it has a smaller base and other Corvettes do not. 

 

The new class could be Assault Scout. That is from an old game system called Star Frontiers.

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Using Alexmann's ship calculator your ship comes out to 25 points due to the MARs...

 

 

Using Alexmann's ship calculator your ship comes out to 25 points due to the MARs...

 

Perhaps drop HP and CP down to 1 (and CR 3) and basically make it a large bomber.... Shunt Capable Heavy Bomber or Attack Craft. Maybe then you could be able to drop down the points 10 to 15 per model. Also I wouldn't make it a Corvette and instead a new class of ship to justify why it has a smaller base and other Corvettes do not. 

The system isnt designed for such ships. If one MAR doubles the price its unusabel. I dont think the calculator is a perfect system anyway. You get an orientation and thats fine, but just calculate it with 1 HP less, it doesnt make it cheaper.

 

I thought about 1 HP nevertheless but i cant rest that in a game now so im not sure how much of a difference it would make and if it would simply be too weak, so i sticked to already existing stuff.

 

The new class could be Assault Scout. That is from an old game system called Star Frontiers.

I didnt want to create a new class because i wanted to stick to the already existing rules. Smaller bases dont change those rules, a new class does it though.

 

I would like to introduce such a new class but im not sure if SG just winks it away if it comes with too much new stuff. I could even think of better MARs to make the ship how i imagine it but for the same reason i sticked to already existing ones.

 

Apart from that do you guys think it would do inagme what i imagine for it? (taken from my descriptions below the profile)

 

If you look at it in comparison to a drone the squadron has half its firepower but is more resilient on its approach. The full squardon is 10 points more, however if i would only increase the cost to 15 its suddenly 135 Points you could get almost 2 full drone squadrons for it thats 4 times the potential firepower. Thats why i have to keep the points so low to make the big swarm work.

 

After all i think the result is what counts and i dont think 11AD in RB1 only for 90 points is overpowered. Thats an expensive version of a heavy cruiser and you always get multiple firearc on higher RBs with them.

 

So a comparison with teh drone and a heavy cruiser of the same price dont look too strong to me.

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Any ideas/suggestions on the Nidus is it that bland/boring, lol? I think it adds something different without being too over the top and not every small has to be a unkillable 6+ to hit it deathmachine, imo.

Of course, as I said, I don't know enough about the spiders...

Zak

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As always the "acid test" for these woud be "would you field them?". In my case I'm not sure - I mean they'd be much harder to kill than Drones (almost untouchable at range), but what do I do with them? I can see flooding the enemy but if I have to paint 16 of the b*ggers to do it, I'm not sure I'd ever motivate myself!

 

Also, 2 MARs on a core small ship is definately overkill, and I'd say would raise your point cost above the 10 you're proposing. Having said that, I think either stealth systems OR elusive target alone should be enough on this ship (it's move of 14" giving it the speed to close the distance easily).

 

Hmm im not so sure what to take out of your comment because basically you say they are too weak but should be more expensive.

 

You say you arent sure if you would pick them up (lets set aside the painting reason because that doesnt have to do with gameplay and it would be pretty different for dofferent players). We both know we dont wanna create a auto/must pick so it shouldnt be a no brainer because its too strong. Thats why i kept the AD at 3, the fact that it doesnt have two broadsides and only this one weapon also justifies getting two MAR and still beeing cheap.

 

One reason to pick them up for me is that they actually are a small pick that works in cohesion with the rest of the relthoza fleet. Dones always let me wonder what to do with them. If i take them they are THE obvious target for the enemy out of RB2 (because of the stealth and cloak of the rest of the ships), so they will never reach the enemy. So what you would get with the Collective Class is having a small selection that is rather save at high RBs while not beeing totally OP when coming close.

 

Also i think its just a great feeling having swarms of them for the player. It also differentiates the core races because noone else has something like this yet. To be honest an Apex should be far superior to 3 of those squads for the same point, but you know what? With their resilience i would at least give them a chance. Drones i wouldnt EVER take over a dread for the same points.

 

If you cant really decide if they are to strong or too weak maybe are just that, rather balanced?

 

Aside from that, i dont understand all this anti-MAR talk. As i said earlier what counts is the result. With MARs you can easily overpower small (all) vessels but if that isnt the case there shouldnt be a rule against MAR usage, they are a normal part of the game.

 

Marauder of the Rift shows that SG themselves have made small ships with two MARs so i dont think that should be a restriction as long as the result works.

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