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Dystopian Wars Playtester Thread

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While i like the support cruiser, it doesnt appear to stack up to the new prussian support cruiser. Its true, the EotBS one has a longer range on its weapons, but

1) they have extremely restricted fixed chanels, making it hard to line them up

2) because of those fixed channels, both weapons essentially need to fire at the same target

3) the rockets are deflected by AA

4) it has no secondary weapons systems, or generators

For only 5 more points, the Prussian one gets

1) rugged construction

2) weapons with much larger fire arcs

3) the backup telsa broadside weaponry

4) synergy between its spear weapons and the telsa weaponry in the rest of the fleet

5) potentially more hull points ( dont know final HP stats for both)

6) a tesla generator

The prussian ship seems a much more flexible and synergistic package for only 5 more points. The EotBS one, while potentially powerful, is extremely one-dimensional, and has some glaring weaknesses.

Also, 240 points gets me 3x AD10 rockets, or 1x AD20. For 240 points of yurgi destroyers i get 2x AD 14 rocket shots, just at 1 closer range band. Those destroyers technically also have fixed broadsides if an agile enemy closes quickly and moves out of your fixed front arc. The new cruisers appear to have no defense or way to engage closer flanking targets, and dont appear to give the fleet anything it didnt have before. Did we need just another long range rocket platform?

Granted it might be late for this kind of advice, but maybe either

1) 90 degree arcs on the rockets, allowing for some flexibility in engaging different targets with the 2 pods, or

2) in sticking with the new "lookout you're on fire" theme of the EotBS, maybe give them a fury generator. They will build up fury points over the game, and if an enemy closes to range band 1 (where this model is defenseless), it can blow the fury generator and pass out raging fire tokens like candy before trying to disengage. Otherwise I see these things getting eaten alive by fast smalls.

I know people will say "wait for all the stats", but those cruisers appear, at first glance, to give us less than the yurgi destroyers already do.

Just my 2 cents

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2) in sticking with the new "lookout you're on fire" theme of the EotBS, maybe give them a fury generator. They wil build up fury points over the game, and if an enemy closes to range band 1 (where this model is defenseless), it can blow the fury generator and pass out raging fire tokens like candy before trying to disengage.

Linking its incendiary AA and CC with its attached squadron will be a much more fun way to pass out the candy...

But otherwise I agree, the Prussians have always been and will always be OP

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Never underestimate the ability to hit your opponent at range and not have to rely on getting up close and personal. The donnerfaust, while potent, seems like a closer range shooter in a faction of close range shooters, the japanese support cruiser is a long range shooter in a faction lacking in real long range power up to this point (rockets not withstanding, and besides, the EotBS RB4 rockets previously weren't that impressive and rockets need more AD to get past AA and rocket jammers)

 

EDIT: When are the EotBS going to reach back across the sea and give us prussians sonic generators?

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I am curious, what are the other stats of the Arashi? Same as the Tanuki or the Nakatsu? Or maybe inbetween?

It will make an interesting attachment to the Tanukis or on their own, I just wish I could buy 2 squadrons, I love the unit look and stats.

Definitely gonna try the new Hachiman next game.

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To Spartan Games, play testers, and Delboy.

 

 

 

"Me Love You Long Time"

 

 

From the EotBS thread on Empire reinforcements.

 

The Hachiman needs so much help. It needs...

 

+1 CR.                                     Check 

A broadside.                            Check

Turrets upgraded like others.  Check when you include incendiary.

A second generator.                Check

Fast Torps.                              Check when you raise AD numbers.

 

The new units are excellent. Will discuss them later

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Holy... Spartan ended up using my idea for broadside rockets?

 

I don't even care if it was a completely independent idea that just so happened to coincide with  the one change I have been saying on the forums repeatedly. I feel kinda vindicated that it was a good idea is all ^_^

 

I only have one small problem with the new changes, and it is actually kind of a big deal.

 

How on earth am I going to convince the wife to let me buy the new models, and a dread, and an aerial support box, and...

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The new rules look great.  I'm loving all of the models, but the commodore pales in comparison to the others for someone who doesn't use cards.

 

I'm so excited about the Hachiman that I already bought it.  That said my main opponent just ordered the Prometheus.  I excitedly told him about my 12 RB 4 Rocket dice and he casually says my energy turrets can do 13 RB 4 Gunnery dice with three turrets.  Considering the Hachiman is a long range specialist with a few great abilities in RB 1, I think it still needs more rockets if it is going up to 280 with 2 generators.  It still has one of the worst gunnery spread of any dread in RB 3-4.  Maybe I'm complaining too much, but it has about 30 more rocket tubes than the Miyage-Myudo so why not at least let it link for a few more rocket dice.  Say beef it up to 14 AD in RB4?

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The Comodore ability to chose one card is a mighty scary ability.  It is really exeptionally strong and he also has the abillity to make the rocket attacks of your fleet more dangerous with phosphorus attacks.

I don't see how someone could complaim she is weak if you do not use cards.

She don't even reqiers you to take it as an 5 points ubgrade as every other comodore does.

 

Why are there so many people who play without the cards?

From my experiance they are not game breaking at all, they add flavor and a certain amount of surprise but I would not call them game deciding.

Also letting you chose exactly what you need when you need it is a realy strong ability.

That of course only works if the card is not already used and still in the draw deck.

Neither should your opponent hold the card you are looking for in his hand.

I really recommend to use the game cards it adds lots of fun  and an additional layer of tactic to the game, cards are no gamebreaker.

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If Majesty wont keep double shields, I will be sad because i have always treated shields as Kob thing. Now with italians having better shields even on battleship, i can not imagine british, leading nation in industrial revolution, having worse technology on DN.

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If Majesty wont keep double shields, I will be sad because i have always treated shields as Kob thing. Now with italians having better shields even on battleship, i can not imagine british, leading nation in industrial revolution, having worse technology on DN.

*cough* CoA *cough* :ph34r:

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The Comodore ability to chose one card is a mighty scary ability. It is really exeptionally strong and he also has the abillity to make the rocket attacks of your fleet more dangerous with phosphorus attacks.

I don't see how someone could complaim she is weak if you do not use cards.

She don't even reqiers you to take it as an 5 points ubgrade as every other comodore does.

Why are there so many people who play without the cards?

From my experiance they are not game breaking at all, they add flavor and a certain amount of surprise but I would not call them game deciding.

Also letting you chose exactly what you need when you need it is a realy strong ability.

That of course only works if the card is not already used and still in the draw deck.

Neither should your opponent hold the card you are looking for in his hand.

I really recommend to use the game cards it adds lots of fun and an additional layer of tactic to the game, cards are no gamebreaker.

Not game changing huh? I played a game last Thursday with cards. Italians vs FSA. My mission, capture the commodore, my oppponents kill all large and massive models. 1000pts.

The game went to 5 turns before I captured his commodore, just to have him play the "He's alive!" card, or whatever its name is, and switch the commodore to his fresh battleship that had been foolishly moving around an island all game doing nothing.

Meant that all the trouble I went to to lower the HP of the Enterprise just to make it more manageable in a boarding action, was all for nothing. This allowed him to knock out the generator on my Affontadore, and over the course of 2 turns and a drifting dreadnoughts iron ram, to knock out my carrier, thus securing the win.

This despite the fact I destroyed more than enough of his army to win the 70% win condition, in case it went to a draw.

You may ask " why did you place the carrier in front of the dreadnought?" To which I would respond with "because I had no reason to assume he had that card and I knew as soon as I boarded it I would win. So why should I have cared?"

the cards, while fun, are game breaking. They sway a game in the direction of the player who has the best cards to hand.

That is why most players don't use them.

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I don't see what the problem is here. A lot of the game's system, like any other table-top game, revolves around luck. Would you say good dice rolls are game breaking? 
Spartan's card system is pretty well designed. Although it would suck if you get crappy cards and your opponent gets good ones, the 'weaker' or highly situational cards have a higher sturgunium point value to counter-act your opponent's card. This means no card is truly worthless.
I personally think the cards add a great new element to the game and hardly think it's broken. That being said, I know several people still dont use them, for whatever reason. I can see why they're peeved by the Japanese Commodore's ability.

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I dunno if I can wait!

 

The new Japanese Dread is very nice, though. I think a lot of people are going to be happy about that.

Oh yes, I shall have to get one soon. What interests me most, though, is how the balance of power between the different units will shift due to the change to rockets. I can see several units becoming more viable because of it, especially the destroyer, since it is now less outclassed by the frigate. Hell, even the nakatsu is now slightly less bad.

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The new rules look great.  I'm loving all of the models, but the commodore pales in comparison to the others for someone who doesn't use cards.

 

I'm so excited about the Hachiman that I already bought it.  That said my main opponent just ordered the Prometheus.  I excitedly told him about my 12 RB 4 Rocket dice and he casually says my energy turrets can do 13 RB 4 Gunnery dice with three turrets.  Considering the Hachiman is a long range specialist with a few great abilities in RB 1, I think it still needs more rockets if it is going up to 280 with 2 generators.  It still has one of the worst gunnery spread of any dread in RB 3-4.  Maybe I'm complaining too much, but it has about 30 more rocket tubes than the Miyage-Myudo so why not at least let it link for a few more rocket dice.  Say beef it up to 14 AD in RB4?

but its FAR from a long range specialist. The only long range weapon it has are the rockets, compared to the long range rockets and 3 turrets on the FSA dread.

With elite crew, the EotBS turrets, red ram, good torps, telescopic zoom on its 8 CC, and the potential for a tesla/sonic/disruption generator, its a brawler that happens to also have a good rocket profile. I mean, you can get better rockets out of a squadron of yurgis or the new support cruiser if you want long range.

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There was a poll on the forum about it. Edit: I am wrong. It ended a roughly level. Last I looked the "never" option was still leading

Why must everything I say come I to question here?

And before you say "a forum poll doesn't mean anything!"

Its the only evidence on the subject we are ever going to get.

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Why are there so many people who play without the cards?

From my experiance they are not game breaking at all, they add flavor and a certain amount of surprise but I would not call them game deciding.

The reason is simple: Because it adds another randomness layer on the game.

The more random mechanics you have and add, the more the winner is elected by luck. Most of people simply don't like that, even if cards are "fun".

In top of that, cards are not balanced with each others: some of them are useless in certain fleets where others are really really powerful.

 

People don't want to turn DW into a "first to draw this, win the game". Of course it's not that extreme, but imagine two people taking 2 decks of Magic and play without mana cost, it's close like DW cards.

 

Nowadays, there is a growing population of wargames players asking for randomless games; more and more of them are tired of dice/cards randomness in "strategy games".

Dystopian Wars use dice to hit, but also random with exploding dice mechanic, counter-attack, defensive fire, shields, use of abilities... It's understandable some people don't want to add more.

 

People preferring the "fun" over the randomness are not the most representative public of that public of gamers.

For example, that's why most Chess players do not play Knightmare Chess and most Knightmare Chess players are not really Chess players. -> Not same public, they don't search for the same things.

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The reason is simple: Because it adds another randomness layer on the game.

The more random mechanics you have and add, the more the winner is elected by luck. Most of people simply don't like that, even if cards are "fun".

In top of that, cards are not balanced with each others: some of them are useless in certain fleets where others are really really powerful.

 

People don't want to turn DW into a "first to draw this, win the game". Of course it's not that extreme, but imagine two people taking 2 decks of Magic and play without mana cost, it's close like DW cards.

 

Nowadays, there is a growing population of wargames players asking for randomless games; more and more of them are tired of dice/cards randomness in "strategy games".

Dystopian Wars use dice to hit, but also random with exploding dice mechanic, counter-attack, defensive fire, shields, use of abilities... It's understandable some people don't want to add more.

 

People preferring the "fun" over the randomness are not the most representative public of that public of gamers.

For example, that's why most Chess players do not play Knightmare Chess and most Knightmare Chess players are not really Chess players. -> Not same public, they don't search for the same things.

 

Randomless wargames? Its not a game anymore then. Its also not war, war is random. Combat is almost certainly the most chaotic state a human can be in. What you want is an advanced trigonometry problem using models on a table.

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