Dystopian Wars Playtester Thread

[Demaios 2]

I'm just hoping the PLC land units get a rewrite. I was hoping for a landship so i could field a polish land force one day. Guess it'll have to wait till spartan get round to them again. That said at the current schedule that'll be about January. 

[MythicKhan 277]

 

In time given their world-ethos, I'd like to draw the Ottomans back to the Covenant as a co-signature of sorts, given the reasons above, but really thats down to Franco. From a game-standpoint it also increases the Allies Spread for the Covenant, but it might not fit with Franco's vision [There is also the issue of the folks who have bought into the Ottomans as an Imperial Bond faction.]....but I digress.

 

 

 

Tbh, what I'd like to see is three groups of three to round out the list, like so:

 

Grand Coalition

 

FSA

KoB

RC

 

Imperial Bond

 

EotBS

PE

RoF

 

'Covenant of Nations'

 

CoA

Ottomans

SUSA (perhaps?)

 

Then a lot of allied forces all over the place for more WAR...... IN STEAMPUNK! My two cents anyway

[Xron 39]

If they really were "blimps" they'd all have Combustible Cargo

That and the defining factor between a blimp and a rigid airship is that blimps have no armour. So if they are really what their name states they would have "DR 2 CR 3 HP 2, combustible cargo" and still be a medium.

Oh and the flame blimps would start the game on fire.

[Pok 2,710]

 

the defining factor between a blimp and a rigid airship is that blimps have no armour.

And the worst part is they're powered by some nonsense make-believe thing and have guns when no airship had guns beyond simple machineguns. Preposterous.

 

Seriously, it's a game with flying ships, literally, that make an "airship" a completely  invalid term.

[Shigematsu 16]

Plus, all the other terms you can use are unwieldy, doesn't roll off the tongue like flame blimp. Can't use Zeppelin .

For all we know it could be a blimp, but with a shield functioning as armor and utilizing an inert gas.

[likeAsir 405]

As a CoA player I feel less than screwed. Whats that? I can have Submarine tenders to compliment my lack of boarding nasties... yes please! But I lose an important ranged unit
 

As a Chinese player I can balance my lack of anti air with some French, but I lose important boarding units.

 

As a British player the faction has gone from Meh to OH MY GOD HOW MANY UNITS CAN YOU TAKE! But every ally or merc is less Brit gunnery.

Waugh Games Tropical Tempest made Allies legal for their tournament last month. None of the players in the top 5 took any allies. It wasn't too overpowered and everyone had a great time. 

[BasicBob 439]

I'm just hoping the PLC land units get a rewrite. I was hoping for a landship so i could field a polish land force one day. Guess it'll have to wait till spartan get round to them again. That said at the current schedule that'll be about January. 

You forgot to list the year. It'll be about January of 2015.

[Xron 39]

And the worst part is they're powered by some nonsense make-believe thing and have guns when no airship had guns beyond simple machineguns. Preposterous.

 

Seriously, it's a game with flying ships, literally, that make an "airship" a completely  invalid term.

A blimp is a airship, they are all airships, it's still a valid term.

The real term in question was "rigid" and if you look at the "blimps" for more than 5 seconds you can see that they are rigid, not giant popable balloons.

[Xron 39]

Plus, all the other terms you can use are unwieldy, doesn't roll off the tongue like flame blimp. Can't use Zeppelin .

For all we know it could be a blimp, but with a shield functioning as armor and utilizing an inert gas.

 Except we can see the honking big bits or armor strapped to the side, automaticly making it a Rigid Airship.

And it's not just about proper nameing, I've asked around and every one I've talked to in my gaming group laughs at "flame blimp", it rolls of the tongue like "natural disaster".

[Retribution 71]

Then call it an 'Incendiary-payload Rigid Assault Airship'.  Or just call it a Gryf-class Airship.  Or call it the 'Flying Polish Death Stick'.  Does the name really matter that much?  I want to see what it can do first.

[c0rruptd 917]

I think I'm just going to roll with the fact that the word 'blimp' in reality didn't exist until World War I, so seeing as this is an alternative timeline and some 40 years earlier than the word was even invented, that 'blimp' probably means 'rigid airship that makes a "blimp" noise when you flick gas bag'...

I do agree that the idea of strapping a flamethrower to a gas-filled aircraft seems like utter madness, but hey, aren't we all here for the mad science and steampunk themes?

[Xron 39]

I think I'm just going to roll with the fact that the word 'blimp' in reality didn't exist until World War I, so seeing as this is an alternative timeline and some 40 years earlier than the word was even invented, that 'blimp' probably means 'rigid airship that makes a "blimp" noise when you flick gas bag'...

I do agree that the idea of strapping a flamethrower to a gas-filled aircraft seems like utter madness, but hey, aren't we all here for the mad science and steampunk themes?

I don't mind the idea but the name makes it sound more suicidal and pathetic than the reality.

[c0rruptd 917]

I'm not really sure 'rigid airship that makes a "blimp" noise when you flick gas bag with a giant underslung flammable chemical projector' sounds pathetic or suicidal. Sounds exactly like something I'd want to ride to the ground, surrounded by flames to the sound of heavy metal (as someone else pointed out earlier).

At any rate, to once again stop an off-track discussion blocking up the Playtester Feed, I've created a new topic over in General where we can discuss the meaning of the term 'blimp' in the Dystopian Wars universe.

http://community.spartangames.co.uk/index.php?/topic/7564-what-is-the-meaning-of-blimp-in-the-dw-universe/

[Pok 2,710]

Armored blimp. there, problem solved. Also, no such distinction in Polish as far as I'm aware, so...Spartan merely keeps with the PLC naming conventions!

[Xron 39]

Armored blimp. there, problem solved. Also, no such distinction in Polish as far as I'm aware, so...Spartan merely keeps with the PLC naming conventions!

 A armoured blimp is automaticly a rigid or semi-rigid airship.

The exact definition isn't the reason I'm annoyed though. Blimps have a reputation for being squishy and easy to destroy. It's like calling a tank a car.

[Shigematsu 16]

A armoured blimp is automaticly a rigid or semi-rigid airship.

The exact definition isn't the reason I'm annoyed though. Blimps have a reputation for being squishy and easy to destroy. It's like calling a tank a car.

In French(Canadian) , tank and car are the same word (char).

Could be the Poles be attempting to confuse their enemies through misleading nomenclature . Like how the word tank for armoured fighting vehicle came about.

[Pok 2,710]

As I said, in polish a blimp is every kind of a self-powered aerostat. If you particularily need to differentiate, you slap on "skeletal" or not to it. Which might or might not bear any relevance to in-game nomenclature.

[Merlin 549]

Btw, the gas used in airships/blimps is generally Helium which does not ignite. So putting a flamethrower on the polish blimps is not that hazardous.

[Bratr 175]

I cant wait for the Polish Air Hussars. I realy hope that they will stay as major resource for my Russian Polar bears.

[Guest Delboy]

Sorry for the delay folks........ family intruded on my geek-dom.....but here without further ado are my mutterings about.....

 

The Polish and Lithuanian Commonwealth

The interesting thing about the Polish and Lithuanian Fleet is the limited nature of their ORBAT.

They are not a Naval Force, their naval power was supplemented by their Russian allies, so when it came to designing the fleet it was tricky to ensure it fitted with both the Land and Sea without favouring one too heavily. Also the fleet was NOT going to get the 'Lend Lease Treatment' in the same way as the Kingdom of Denmark did, as the Land Force was already well established with a good range of different models [...although they needed a bit of a re-focus...]

 

It is in the Land and Air that the P+L provide their strength, so when we were designing the P+L we looked to the Hussar-like nature of the earlier P+L fleet. Basing their engagement strategy on a mixture of speed, hit+run and of course FLAME!........They are fast, difficult to pin down and loaded with flamers!

PLC Universal Rules:

All PLC Models have the Flame Retardant Armour MAR.

All PLC Primary Weapons (P) have the Incendiary Rounds MAR.

All PLC Heavy Flamethrowers have the Redoubtable MAR.

In addition: Whenever any number of Raging Fire Markers are added as a result of a Ranged Attack which included at least one Heavy Flamethrower, ONE additional Raging Fire Marker should be added.

 

This mix of Universal Rules is very potent. The vessels in the P+L fleet have a good resistance to their own weaponry types [….as you might expect....] and are masters at the application of the Raging Fire token! The bonus of the additional Raging Fire Token when using the Heavy Flamethrowers only really becomes apparent when the game is afoot....... and your opponent is desperately trying to put out the towering inferno that often engulfs their larger vessels!

PLC Fleet Commodore Rules:

Safe Passage: Re-roll one treacherous terrain test for a model in their fleet within 8” of the Commodores vessel.

 

Fix it Lads: Re-Roll one damage repair test for one model within 8” of the Commodore’s model.

 

With Fire and Sword: ONCE per game, a single Polish-Lithuanian squadron within 16” of the Commodore’s vessel is permitted to break the standard prohibition regarding Shooting and then Boarding the same target vessel. Polish-Lithuanian models may ignore the prohibition, provided the target was ONLY attacked by Flamethrower Weaponry during the preceding Shooting Segment. During the Boarding Phase following the Attack, the vessels who engaged in the Attack are considered to have the Ferocious MAR

.

Incineration Protocol: ONCE per game, before any Attack Dice are rolled, a Polish- Lithuanian squadron within 16” of the Commodore’s vessel may elect to make a single Attack with Flamethrower Weaponry; resolving any hits they cause as conventional Ordnance Damage INSTEAD of following the normal Flamethrower procedure. This special Attack may only use the Combined Fire Firing Option and is considered to have the Incendiary Rounds Mar. Any Critical Hits caused by this special Attack are automatically considered to have rolled a Raging Fire result on the Critical Hit table.

 

 

OK, so the first 2 are constant across the fleets, but With Fire and Sword is a Game Ender if applied correctly........mostly because it allows you to use BOTH Dash+Elan AND Ferocious in the same boarding action in certain cases!!!

 

And Incineration Protocol is another beast of an ability – ever wanted to dump an 18AD Flamethrower attack that uses the normal shooting rules?........ In the Land Game, where CR is traditionally lower by 1-3pts......that’s very effective!

 

Other useful MARs include.......

Hit and Run

This model may move up to HALF of its Movement (Mv) immediately after completing the Combat Segment of its Squadron Activation, but ONLY if it has moved no more than HALF of its Movement (Mv) during the Movement Segment.

 

I've included this to remind folks of what it does....and cos its in the fleet guide! Simple and effective, the Smalls in the P+L fleet make best use of this fruity little MAR.

Sustained Fire (Weapon, Value)

If this model makes an Attack when using the weapon system listed in the brackets, it can re-roll any of the INITIAL Attack Dice (AD) up to the value listed in the brackets. The second roll MUST be accepted. Weapons with the Sustained Fire MAR can only perform Firing Options with other weapons with Sustained Fire. The Split Fire Firing Option is not available to any attack made with a weapon using the Sustained Fire Model Assigned Rule. Multiple instances of Sustained Fire in a squadron do not have a cumulative effect to the attack dice (AD) totals used in any single attack.

 

This MAR was first brought forwards by the Ottomans, and is likely to be a permanent addition to the game in the next edition. It allows for greater control of the success-outcome of the roll and of course......everyone likes a re-roll!

 

Squadron Support (Type, Value)

A model with the Squadron Support MAR enters the battlefield with an additional squadron designed to support the combat effectiveness of the parent vessel.

 

Vessels with the Support Squadron Mar may field a Squadron/Wing of the Type listed in their bracket entry in the deployment phase of the game that is equal in number to the Value listed in the bracket entry.

 

All elements deployed in the Support Squadron must be deployed at the same time as the parent Squadron, and within 4” of one of the parent models, but are free to act as a separate element during the game. Multiple instances of Squadron Support have a combined effect. This combined squadron/wing follows all the rules above.

 

The points cost for these additional squadrons is included in the parent model’s entry and subsequent upgrade costs are applicable. The Support Squadron is ignored when calculating the number of Squadrons in a Fleet for the purpose of calculating the maximum game card Hand size.

 

One of the irritating things we inherited when taking over was the amazing plethora of 'Support MARs' present in the game......in time I am certain those MARs will be replaced with a hybrid version of this MAR as it is a simple matter of pooled effects.

 

Flame Retardant Armour

The first 6 [RED] rolled against this model from any Attack from a Flame Weapon, or as the result of any explosion due to the Combustible Cargo MAR is counted as a 6. Any Damage Repair Test to remove a Raging Fire Marker from this model will succeed on a 1, 2, 3 or 4.

 

Given their choice of weaponry, this MAR is a bit of an auto-include really. Why make a weapon you don’t have a defence against?

 

So that's the Polish and Lithuanian's special rules and some useful MARs laid out. Lets start by looking at the Air Force first......

 

The Zamiec Sky Fortress

The Look

This uses the pre-existing model that came out initially with Storm of Steel. I've always loved this model – The Hussar-cavalry Wing-motif is very clever and helped steer the design of the model's rules, and indeed the entire Fleet playstyle if I'm honest!

 

 

Why is it Needed?

As the sole Large model in the Aerial Fleet, the Zamiec holds pride of place. It is a nexus upon which the Land Forces gain their much needed Air Support. It moves fast and puts TFTs right into the heart of the foe.

 

 

Gunnery, MARs and Generators

Armed with 4 turrets, the original loadout was a bit bonkers, and very misleading regarding Arcs of Fire. This time we looked closely at this and moved to make it a little clearer.

• The ONE Port Main Turret (P) has a Port 180 degree Arc of Fire

• The ONE Starboard Main Turret (P) has a Starboard 180 degree Arc of Fire

• The ONE Port Raised Turret (P) has a Port 270 degree Arc of Fire

• The ONE Starboard Raised Turret (P) has a Starboard 270 degree Arc of Fire

• The TWO Heavy Flamethrowers have a Fore Fixed Channel Arc of Fire

 

The turrets now allow for areas of overlap, which if angled correctly, can give solid AD on a given target. With a spread of 9/6/4/- for each turret, the Zamiec does what is needed on multiple targets at once!

 

Along with its Turrets, the Airship also has a pair of Heavy Flamethrowers with a very scary 6AD each at RB1 [along with the usual MARs that come with the Flamethrower weapons these days...] This allows the Zamiec to dump 12AD on a target, almost certainly causing a Critical Hit on Naval Mediums, Land Larges and such, which will cause the target to catch fire at LEAST twice.......[sometimes more with the right Crit!....]

 

In terms of MARs:

Deck Crews+Fuel Reserves were added to give it a Carrier-style loadout.

Security Posts was added to improve its front line capability

Streamlined Hull was added to compliment the vessel's slim/streamlined look, and to reward forward thinking gameplay.

Swift Ascent was added to allow the vessel to return to the clouds after making its gunnery attacks, giving the vessel a feeling of Hit+Run without resorting to the actual MAR.

Tiny Flyer Complement (6) was the final addition......so that it could make use of its Flight Decks!

 

In addition to encourage its use in the Polish and Lithuanian Land Forces, this model can have the Combat Drop (PLC: Mechanised Line Infantry, 2) MAR for +30pts OR the Combat Drop (PLC: LZ5, 4) MAR for +60pts. This allows the vessel to be used to 'fill the gaps' in the P+L advance, or even overload the enemy at a critical juncture of the battle with small activations.

 

This model is fitted with an internal Shield Generator. Of course this is unusual for a Carrier and coupled with Swift Ascent it can be a real pain in the bum for the opponent.

 

In terms of TFTs, the Polish and Lithuanians get an interesting mix.

Fighters get Acrobatic Pilots and For Glory!....... this allows their Fighters to be very survivable and suggests a bravery over and above the normal Fighter Pilot.

Dive Bombers get More Machineguns!...... making them Fighter-Lites........ and right up there with the best Dive bombers in the game!

Finally they get access to a Recon Plane...the reason for which will become clear when I discuss the Land Forces!

Given the Fleet doe not have a Naval presence......there really didn't seem to be a point in giving them access to Torp-Bombers!

 

 

Movement and Manoeuvre

Moving at 8” its pretty fast for a Large Flyer.....allowing it to close a range band per turn.

As a Flyer it uses the 45-degree Turning Template.

 

 

Squadron Size and Cost

Costing an impressive 180pts, its expensive, but on Land or Sea it is a difficult model to remove, and very nasty when up close.

 

 

Conclusion

A good corner stone to the fleet and very solid in close quarters where its Gunnery can be directed without the majority of the enemy firepower being able to be brought to bear!

 

 

The Gryph Airship

The Look

In a clever use of the P+L aesthetic, the Gryph uses the basic shape of the Zamiec's balloon-sides to give the main chassis of the vessel. The model uses the wings-motif again, which I like. Both this and its gunnery variant look good next to their bigger cousin!

 

 

Why is it Needed?

When we were looking at the Medium Class model, we wanted to reinforce the Flame-Focus of the Polish+Lithuanian Fleet, and creating a fiery-boarding-death-airship seemed a good way to do this! The Flamethrower mounted on the front gives an obvious focus on its use.......RIGHT DOWN THE THROAT!!!

 

 

Gunnery, MARs and Generators

The fore-mounted Heavy Flamethrower has a solid AD value of 6, which is of course Redoubtable. The Gryph is primarily a strike craft, designed for close quarters.

 

In terms of MARs, the spread is designed to reflect their engagement strategy:

Dash and Elan – This MAR allows the Gryph to deliver a stronger punch in Boarding without reverting to the Elite Crew/Ferocious MARs.....of course it does rely on the vessel actually getting through the AA of the target squadron, but with 5AP, that shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Fuel Reserves – We decided long ago to ensure that all models equipped with Flamethrowers should be given this MAR, mostly to represent the volatile nature of the ammunition they carry.

Streamlined Hull – This MAR rewards good gameplay, especially in the Tournament setting, where being able to move that extra inch is often critical. If course it requires forward thinking on the part of the player, knowing who and where they intend to engage the enemy.

Swift Ascent – This MAR is often poo-pooed by some but the option IS important especially if the vessels are likely to pass over over targets on the way to their true target.

 

In terms of Generators, the Gryph has an internal Shield Generator. This becomes a critical survivability bonus for what is essentially a fiery-boarding-torpedo!

 

 

Movement and Manoeuvre

Moving at 10” its pretty standard for a Medium Flyer.....allowing it to close up to 11” [...if Streamlined Hull is used!.....] per turn.

As a Flyer it uses the 45-degree Turning Template.

 

 

Squadron Size and Cost

Taken in squadrons of 2-3 and costing just 60pts each, these 180pt squadrons provide a real problem for the opponent. Put simply....... they WILL reach their target!

 

 

Conclusion

Although these models need good deployment and careful target selection, its hard to fault their performance when they eventually close in! A staple to most boarding-minded players I'm sure!

 

 

The Grom Attack Airship

The Look

This model takes the basic chassis of the Gryph and up-guns it! With Fore Guns and a flexible 360-degree turret!

 

 

Why is it Needed?

Not everyone wants to board......[although as a Prussian player at heart, I cant for the life of me understand why not........], so we wanted to create a counterpoint to the powerful Gryph Medium.

 

 

Gunnery, MARs and Generators

The primary Fixed Channel Fore Guns have a very nasty 9/6/4/- AD-spread and these can of course link with the 360-degree Turret [p]....which also has 9/6/4/-........ giving an impressive 13/9/6/- per vessel!!!

 

In terms of MARs.......

Limited Availability (750) was added to ensure that the Gryph rather than the Grom provided the backbone of the P+L Air Fleet.

Streamlined Hull was added to match its Assault-minded sister vessel.

Swift Ascent was also added, and almost didn’t make the cut.....because we worried it was too powerful. In the end we decided to keep it in, reasoning that the Limited Availability would curtail the vessel's 'spam-likelihood'.

 

This model is fitted with an internal Shield Generator.......making it points for points one of the best Medium Flyer in the game in my opinion!

 

 

Movement and Manoeuvre

Moving at 10” its pretty standard for a Medium Flyer.....allowing it to close up to 11” [...if Streamlined Hull is used!.....] per turn. Its important to line this model up against the correct targets so the player can get the best out of the weapons of course!......Fixed Channel and all that!

As a Flyer it uses the 45-degree Turning Template.

 

 

Squadron Size and Cost

Coming in squadrons of 2-3 and costing a princely 85pts each...... that's 255pts for a full squadron..... but it comes with a LOT of AD.

 

 

Conclusion

Although the inclusion of these might seem a no brainer in most fleets, players should be mindful that prized they are worth 170pts each......making them very tempting to the enemy.....don’t let them get too close! Or at the very least make sure they are supported by.........

 

 

The Szabla

The Look

With the look of an Interceptor, its not hard to figure out where we went with this flyer!

 

 

Why is it Needed?

Expanding the fleet to encompass the Small Class meant the creation of a Small Flyer. With such an aggressive playstyle, it soon became apparent that the P+L would need a reaction unit capable of dealing with aerial threats that were bound to target their incoming Medium and Large – Enter the Szbala!

 

 

Gunnery, MARs and Generators

With only one Fixed Channel Fore mounted gun with an AD spread of 3/2/1/-, the Szabala might seem a bit light, but its got enough firepower to make the Medium+Small Flyers in the enemy fleet take notice.

 

In terms of MARs......

Air Hunter was added to reinforce the Interceptor idea.

Elusive Target+Small Target were added to make hitting the interceptor tricky

Hit & Run was added to give the flyer a feeling of 'dogfighting'. At first glance this might seem a bit pointless, but if folks look deeper they will see a few VERY cheezy things that the squadron can pull off with this MAR in tow.......

Sustained Fire (Ack Ack, 1).....this is the 'power-MAR' in the bunch in my opinion..... Move into 4.1”-8” of a TFT Fighter Wing and declare an AA Attack against them...... Roll 2AA, and re-roll a result you don’t like......then move on through the whole unit...... [if there are 5 in the Interceptor Group....... do the math....!]

Swift Ascent was added to match the other vessels in the fleet and, in truth...... it would have got it anyways!

 

 

Movement and Manoeuvre

Moving at 14” its the fast....real fast! With its Hit and Run MAR, it can move 7”, attack and move another 7” after that.......

As a Flyer it uses the 45-degree Turning Template.

 

 

Squadron Size and Cost

Costing 30pts each and coming in squadrons of 2-5, the full 150pt squadron will protect the Mediums and Large models from TFT and Smalls as the main force closes.

 

 

Conclusion

On paper, the Szbala does little to inspire, but in-game its versatile and will continue to deliver. The more game-time folks allocate to their Small Flyers the better they perform and the P+L Interceptor is no different.

 

 

 

And that's it for the Aerial part of the Fleet Guide!

I'll post the changes to the Land Forces [of which there are more than a few!] soon.

 

Feel free to comment and post questions and I'll endeavour to get back to you as soon as possible.

I'm off to Spartan HQ for the next few days to bask in their collective glow......

Assuming I am not struck blind by their magnificence, I'll hopefully have some juicy gossip to share with everyone when I get back!

 

 

Cheers, and thanks for reading!

Delboy

[BasicBob 439]

The Lord be praised !!! Delboy speaks the word!! ( Finally,  )

[BasicBob 439]

Delboy the P&L look real good. I especially like the Szabla.

 

One question immediately comes to mind. With the lack of torpedos and TF torpedo bombers can the P&L fight a sea battle on their own ? Right now based upon the initial look of things the P&L would make excellent allies for KoB. Thoughts Delboy!

 

Again your crew has taken a interesting fleet concept and turned it into a gaming reality. Well done !

[Sebenko 978]

"With fire and sword".

 

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that... though the image of a jetpack-equipped winged hussar dropping through a raging inferno is fantastic . And a scarier Zamiec? And more fire? It looks like the PLC are getting more of the cackling lunacy I play them for. Love it, even if you tease us with the land stuff still.

[BasicBob 439]

Oh ....."collective glow"..... "magnificence" ..."juicy gossip".......I feel faint already.  Enjoy your stay at Spartan Games you lucky dog.

[Drachinifel 30]

I forsee a lot of Merlin's being grounded in favour of the new interceptor as an ally.