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Dystopian Wars Playtester Thread

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Hey guys, I have a question to the Euclid Dreadnought.

 

Was it really planned that he has no Strategic Objective MAR?

 

I refer to the Game Extensions of "Storm of Steel", where Models with Dreadnought Designation gains the Stratic Objective MAR. But the Title says "Dreadnought Naval Models".

 

The Mainproblem is, that during Storm of Steel only Naval models had the Designation Dreadnought and the Euclid of CoA is the first and only Flyer with this Designation (even the RoF Vaubal could be a Flying Dreadnought, but has the Designation Skyfortress).

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I would presume that the Euclid was built with previous Dreadnought model experience taken into account, as naval Dreadnoughts really skew the game. Also, the weapon loadout is nowhere near that of a standard Dreadnought- it's really closer to the HQ Sky Fortress designation of the Vauban than the Vauban itself, as it revolves around all the cool toys it has (Literally, what with 360 movement. Ha!)

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Guest Delboy

The Merchant Navy Fleet Box

 

Introduction

When we were looking to expanding the gaming space in D-Wars, the idea of filling out the Merchant Navy was an easy sell. Our biggest problem was what to put in the box!

 

Obviously the Merchant Navy is not a 'Fleet' in the strictest sense, and it shouldn't really be abused by the Tournament Gamer – rather it should encourage and inspire the Story/Scenario Gamer to recreate their favourite Naval stories [......or even better write their own] involving these brave sailors who consistently put themselves in harms way for the greater good.

 

With any fleet box, we looked first to the 1xLarge 2xMedium 1xSmall Size Classes, but in truth we quickly discounted that in favour of a more ambitious approach. Given the intention behind the box was to allow players to push the boundaries of their own imagination, it seemed only fitting that everyone at Spartan did the same..... so in this box we have a truly staggering array of bitz+gubbinz that the inventive player can turn to! […... hopefully I don’t forget anything!]

 

One thing to bear in mind with this box is that OUR suggestions for rules, MARs etc. are NOT definitive. It would be an arrogant fool that told folks the limits of their imagination. We chose to put rules in to give folks a framework upon which they can go their of way, make their own sceanrios and develop their own gaming-story.

Start with these rules and build upon them!

 

Also, I don't have individual renders for these vessels at present, so folks will have to make do with the Webstore pics. Sorry......I'll try to get them and imput them into the post in time.

http://shop.spartangames.co.uk/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=DWEX11

 

 

The Titan Class Troop Transport

This model is the same as the existing model! If you have the old Olympic/Titan Transport, you can use this one!

The Look

All this model is missing is an iceberg, a saccharin-sweet-diabetes-inducing soundtrack and two whiny irksome adolescents on a 'voyage of discovery'...... and you have the Titanic!

 

In truth, I've always loved this model, and some of the forum members have done some fantastic colour schemes to personalise it to their fleet.

 

 

Why is it Needed?

All Fleet boxes have a Large/Massive Class model in it and it made sense to include this model into the mix. It also allowed us to change a few things about the older version that didn’t sit right with us.

 

 

Gunnery, MARs and Generators

Its a cruise-liner......so don’t expect it to have any gunnery! It does have a AA+CC of 4, but that’s nothing to get excited about!

 

In terms of MARs, the vessel fairs slightly better:

Limited Availability (750) – We toyed with a higher number but in truth this was sufficient given the limitations below to the numbers that can be taken.

Merchant Navy (50) – This MAR got a re-work to allow us to make it do more things.

MERCHANT NAVY (value)

This MAR is divided into three parts: Fleet Composition, Boarding Limitations and Merchant Asset.

 

Fleet Composition - This model may not count as part of the Fleet’s Core Force of any Nation Fleet, nor may it be the Fleet Commodore unless otherwise stated.

 

Boarding Limitations - Merchant Navy vessels are not geared towards mounting aggressive boarding actions. Any Boarding Action initiated against an enemy model by a model with the Merchant Navy MAR requires 6’s to hit with its Attack Dice (AD).

 

Merchant Asset - If this model is NOT Lost at the conclusion of the game (or has been removed from play due to a Scenario Condition), the controlling player gains additional victory Points equal to the Value listed in the bracket. If no bracketed value is in the MAR entry, no bonus is gained

 

 

So in the case of the Titan, it cannot be part of your Core Force or hold the Commodore, it cannot be expected to reliably board anything, and if it survives the battle you get +50VPs.......Simple.

Radio Network – With the radio masts on the model this was an easy inclusion. Also the added Game Card can come in handy, especially during scenario gaming where cards are often predetermined!

Salvage Crew – This MAR allows us to use the Troop Ship to improve the survivability of the entire fleet, especially against Boarding fleets. Remember of course the Titan would only hit on 6s! I've included it here, but it can be found on the Downloads page in the MARs Document.

 

SALVAGE CREW

This model can initiate a Boarding Assault against a friendly model that has been taken as a Prize. If the Prize Crew is reduced to 0, the Prize model recovers 1D3 Assault Points (AP) and MUST attempt to re-join its Squadron if possible.

 

 

Troop Ship – This is the strongest of the MARs. We re-worked it to ensure it stood up under all forms of gameplay.

 

TROOP SHIP

This model may initiate a Boarding Assault against a friendly non-robot model in the same fleet, transferring some or all of its own AP to the target model. The target model may NOT be taken above its starting Assault Points, and equally the initiating model may not reduce its Assault Points below 0AP.

 

This means that in concert with the Salvage Crew MAR, in 2 turns the Titan might re-crew a Dreadnought that was taken as a Prize and bring it back to the fight with a good amount of AP on-board!

 

Given it is a Merchant vessel, we didn’t feel it should have any generators.....[although we did jokingly give it a Glacier Generator in early drafts to it could collide with its own creation......thus ridding us of those two irksome adolescents mentioned above....]

 

 

Movement and Manoeuvre

Moving at a reasonable 7” per activation, the Titan is pretty fast.....for a Large Merchantman!

The Titan uses the Large Turning Template.

 

 

Squadron Size

Taken in squadrons of 1 for 100pts, the Titan might seem expensive, but with 10AP that has the possibility to swing a game by as much as 560pts, the benefits seem clear!

 

 

Conclusion

A great looking model with some new nifty rules that whilst situational lend themselves to any number of cool scenario ideas!

 

 

 

Hermes Class Merchantman

 

The Look

With a relatively low silhouette and fantastic adaptability, this model is just what we needed. It uses a number of drop-ins to ensure that all the criteria of our design are met. And it does it well!

 

 

Why is it Needed?

We wanted these Merchantmen to reflect the convoys of a later period in D-Wars. Its arguable that we ought to have made a number of vessels or one for every nation etc..... there simply wasn’t time and in truth it wasn’t really needed in our view – having the Merchant Navy as generic as possible ensured that players only needed one box to cover multiple fleets

.

The Merchantmen allowed us to put into the game something that, aside from the Merchantmen themselves, we felt had been missing – Q-Ships! The History of these vessels patchy, finding reference to their existence as far back as the Roman era. The premise of a Q-Ship is simple.

 

Look like a juicy target that is too good to pass up, and when the enemy comes calling confident in their easy victory.... roll out the weapons hidden from view and blatt 'em!! Perfect for the Story and Scenario gamer!...... adding drama and uncertainty to the story.

 

 

Gunnery, MARs and Generators

The Hermes Merchantman comes with no gunnery, although a single model in the squadron may upgrade to be a Merchantman Defender which mounts a single Gunnery or Torpedo Turret to the rear of the vessel. The Gunnery Turret has a simple secondary loadout of 7/5/4/-. The Torpedo Turret has a loadout of 6/5/3/- and the use of the Torps gives the vessel the Water Hunter MAR.

 

Other MARs include:

Attachment (All Nations, Naval Medium, 1) – Allowing the player to attach these vessels to the combat-orientated Medium vessels in the fleet.

Merchant Navy (25) – This means that the vessels have the Fleet Limitations, Boarding Limitations, and Merchant Asset allowance of +25pts.....basically survive the mission, gain +25pts!

 

The Hermes does not have any Generators. They are too 'neutral' for that sort of thing!

 

 

Movement and Manoeuvre

Moving at 8” per activation, the Merchantmen are reasonably stated in terms of speed. By closing a Range Band per Activation, they make it easy for players to plan their moves/counters.

The Hermes uses the Medium Turning Template.

 

 

Squadron Size

Taken either as an Attachment or in squadrons of 2-4 models, these 30pt models are very often the nexus of the scenario.

 

 

Conclusion

Basic and simple. No real frills.......at least not yet.... the weirdness kicks in with the sister vessel – the Q-Ship.

 

 

 

Hermes Class Q-Ship

 

The Look

I mentioned before the modular aspect of the Hermes and the reason for it becomes clear when looking at the Q-Ship variant! Its bristling with guns!....or torps if you prefer! Each drop-in looks great IMO and gives us a very interesting set of models combinations.

 

 

Why is it Needed?

I mentioned our desire to create Q-Ships before, and this model [using the chassis of the standard Merchantman of course] fulfils that desire. I think its an imagery thing more than anything....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=375sBc8Q-fo

[Look to around 2mins45secs for the Q-Ship part....although it looks like a training film]

During playtesting I often couldn’t resist the urge to shout “How to ya like them apples!” at the top of my voice when revealing the Q-ships in a squadron.

 

 

Gunnery, MARs and Generators

I think its easiest to explain the hard points on the vessel first, starting with the Middle Section.

This section allows for a Torpedo Broadside to be revealed. This weapon system has a light loadout of 5/5/-/-, making it a useful arc-ed weapon with good close range effect.

 

The Fore and Aft hard points use the same loadouts [but with opposing arcs obviously!] With 7/5/4/- for the Gunnery Turret and 6/5/3/- for the Torpedo Turret, they are both capable of linking-side on for a respectable 10/7/6/- for the Gunnery and 11/9/4/- for the Torps [assuming the Broadsides link in too!]

 

Of course you don’t HAVE to tool these guys up, you might want to have them only mount one weapon system, or maybe just 2..... its up to you!

 

"But whats to stop your opponent simply shooting these guys?....thats not very Q-Ship-y!”

Look to the Q-Ship MAR.

Q-SHIP (Class)

The notion of a Q-Ship was a response to the grim reality of the catastrophic losses sustained to merchant shipping in the early months of the war. Millions of tons were lost as the convoy escorts were needed to support their nation’s naval fleets, leaving their former charges at the mercy of the enemy hunter killer groups.

 

In time however the merchant fleets took steps to defend themselves. Firstly with the creation of a Merchantman Defender, a vessel armed with an Aft-mounted weapon system. But even this up-gunning proved to be insufficient. And so the idea of the Q-Ships were born. These vessels were outfitted to appear exactly the same as their merchantman cousins, however their cargo capacity was a ruse. Instead they had their turrets and weapon broadsides hidden using ingenious means. Baiting the trap for those hunter killer squadrons looking for easy prey.

 

Models with this MAR may be taken as a part of a Squadron of the noted Class listed in the brackets, fulfilling the requirements for minimum and maximum Squadron size.

NOTE: This means that a Squadron could be entirely replaced by models with the Q-Ship MAR. You cannot exceed the maximum Squadron Size of the original squadron however.

 

It is not necessary for the controlling player to reveal which of the models in a Squadron are Q-Ships until the Squadron declares an attack with weapon systems not present on the Class they are impersonating.

Once this occurs, the controlling player MUST replace the disguising drop-ins with the weapon systems purchased for the model. Once a Q-Ship has revealed its weapons, the vessel is considered to have the Vulnerable MAR.

 

Any Q-Ship with the Reactive Fire MAR considers their Ordnance weapons to have the Terror Weapon MAR in the activation they are revealed.

 

Contrary to normal rules regarding Squadron upgrades, models with the Q-Ship MAR are NOT required to take the same the upgrades or options that have been purchased by other models in the same Squadron.

 

So your opponent doesn't know where the Q-ships are...... and wont know until you choose to reveal your weapons.....But it gets better......All Q-ships have the Reactive Fire MAR too!....

REACTIVE FIRE (weapon)

This MAR triggers when a squadron containing a model with the Reactive Fire MAR becomes the target of an Ordnance Attack. The enemy squadron declaring the Ordnance attack will be referred to in the following text as the Offensive Squadron.

 

All models with the Reactive Fire MAR may choose to return fire using the noted weapon(s). All Reactive Fire Attacks must be resolved against the Offensive Squadron instead of making a Counter Attack if this is also available. A model may not make more than ONE Reactive Fire Attack per enemy activation.

 

Models with the Reactive Fire (Weapon System) MAR can make an attack using the weapon listed in the brackets, resolving the Combat Sequence SIMULTANEOUSLY with the Offensive Squadron.

 

The Offensive Squadron CANNOT declare a Counter-Attack to a Reactive Fire attack, but may perform Defensive Fire as normal.

 

Once a Reactive Fire Attack has been resolved by a model, the following marker should be placed on it, dependant on the weapons used to perform the Reactive Fire Attack:

Primary or Secondary Weapons = Weapon Damage Critical Hit Effect

Rockets or Torpedo Weapons = Chaos and Disarray Critical Hit Effect

Applied Critical Effects can be repaired as normal during the End Phase and the model does not suffer the associated HP Loss.

 

All markers applied to a vessel with the Reactive Fire MAR stack as normal.

 

 

So..... reveal your Q-Ships and fire when your opponent shoots at you!...... pretty cool and loaded with imagery! Personally the 'ambush' feeling you get from these rules in concert is worth playing the scenario in the first place!

 

Attachment (All Nations, Naval Medium, 1) – this matches their sister vessel allowing you to 'hide' a Q-Ship in with some cruisers..... making it look like a Merchantman.....

Merchant Navy – This means it has the limitations without the +VP, since it doesn’t have the Value in the brackets. This means that should you choose to take Q-Ships, you have to get the best out of them, just like the other vessels in the fleet.

Q-Ship (Merchant Cruiser) – This means that anything with the Merchant Cruiser designation can become a Q-Ship.....

Water Hunter (Torpedoes) – obviously this is only available to Q-Ships that have taken Torpedoes!!

 

A Q-Ship Merchantman does not have any generators.

 

 

Movement and Manoeuvre

This vessel matches the sister vessel in all respects, moving at 8” per turn and using the Medium Template....if it moved faster, folks would be tempted to use the extra speed.... and give the game away!

 

 

Squadron Size

This vessel has no squadron size per-se. Rather it uses the Q-Ship rules to place itself into the Fleet, hidden from view. In scenarios, players might need to restrict their use, to ensure that SOME merchantmen were present, but we didn’t want to enforce that sort of thing as it could have restricted innovation and design for everyone....folks might want to play a full 'Dummy-Convoy-Game' for example.

 

In terms of points, the Q-Ship bolts its cost onto the value of the Merchantman. Each turret costs +10pts, and the Torp Broadside costs +10pts too. This means that a fully-tooled Q-Ship costs 60pts [30+10+10+10]. Its important to note that to count as a Q-Ship, you HAVE to buy at least one weapon system! …..although I'm sure folks have figured that out already.

 

 

Conclusion

Great fun! I would happily play raiding convoy games all the time. With the inclusion of these guys and their weird and wonderful rules, the games I've played are full of drama and uncertainty – EXACTLY what a scenario game needs to keep it fresh and exciting.

 

 

 

Vulcan Repair Cruiser

 

The Look

Using the same Merchantman Chassis, this vessel adds on two of the Metal cranes used on the Large Amphibious Landing Craft [and other models]. This gave the vessel the Trawler-style look were were looking for to create our repair ship.

 

 

Why is it Needed?

The Russians have enjoyed a pair of repair vessels for some time now and with the changes to the MARs, they function to good effect. Of course there is no reason why other fllets might not get the same benefit, so we looked to include these vessels into the Merchant Box too.

 

 

Gunnery, MARs and Generators

No Gunnery on these..... they really only do their repairs!

With AP 6 though, they are really good at it!

 

In terms of MARs:

Limited Availability (500) – this probably isn’t needed, but it was worth putting in to stop the unimaginative spammers out there!

Merchant Navy – This means you cant take it in the Core Force and despite its hefty 6AP, you wont get much change out of it in an aggressive sense [….not that the Boarding Limitations affect the vessel's repair dice at all!]

Repair Vehicle – well.....what do you expect!?...its a Repair Vessel!

 

 

Movement and Manoeuvre

Like the other vessels with the same chassis, the Vulcan moves at 8” per activation and uses the Medium Turning Template.

 

 

Squadron Size

Taken in squadrons of 2-3, these 45pt models are VERY good value [even for competitive gaming!]

 

 

Conclusion

A nice and simple loadout that does the job! I've used these guys outside of scenario gaming too, with great effect......ever wondered what a Prussian Emperor Battleship feels like at RB1 with 3xTurrets firing at you!?

 

 

 

Aeriga Oil Rig Fortification

 

The Look

This model is an impressive hunk of resin! The legs are also worth a mention as they are acrylic, meaning they hook onto the base for a smug and stable fit! Very clever folks at Spartan I must say!

 

 

Why is it Needed?

Given we have mobile objectives now [see above] it made sense that we include some static ones too! In previous campaign books there have been a number of Oil Rigs/Installations used, but at the time Spartan didn’t have any cool minis to represent them!....now they do!

 

 

Gunnery, MARs and Generators

No Gunnery on the standard Oil Rig.....the Q-Rig on the other hand......

In terms of MARs:

Combustible Cargo – Given the volatile nature of the vessel's extracted cargo, this MAR seemed reasonable.

Emplaced, Immovable and Impervious – These 'fortification-style MARs are pretty straight forwards really.

Fuel Reserves – All that oil has got to dangerous right!? If ever there was a vehicle with high-visability 'No Smoking' signs everywhere....its would be this one!

Hulking – this was added to the model after seeing how tall it was on the tabletop!

Independent – This MAR was given to the model to facilitate more inventive placement for players during scenarios.

Merchant Navy (40) – As above, this means that the Platform cant be Core, has poor offensive Boarding Capability and gives the player +40pts if it survives the game [….essentially making it free! - see below!]

 

The Oil Rig does not have a generator.

 

 

Movement and Manoeuvre

er.... it doesn’t have a movement, its a Fortification......and don’t bother asking....it doesn’t have a turning template either!

 

 

Squadron Size

Costing 40pts [...and giving 40pts back to the player at the end of the game if it survives!...] the Aergia can be fielded in units of 1-3. This makes them flexible enough for folks to build scenarios with them.

 

 

Conclusion

Simple and effective. These static objectives do their job well.

 

 

 

Aeriga Oil Rig Fortification Q-Ship

 

The Look

Using the standard Oil Rig as a chassis, the Q-Variant replaces the top with a turret – either Gunnery or Torpedo.

 

 

Why is it Needed?

Why not?.... if the Merchantmen can have one, why shouldnt the Oil Rigs get one too!?

 

 

Gunnery, MARs and Generators

The only Gunnery on the vessel comes from the hidden Q-Turret. The Gunnery version has a loadout of 9/7/5/- and the Torpedo version has a loadout of 9/8/6/-.

 

In terms of MARs, the loadout is very similar to the sister Oil Rig:

Emplaced, Immovable and Impervious – As with its sister vessel, the Q-variant has the same 'fortification-style' MAR set.

Fuel Reserves – We gave it the Fuel Reserves MAR to allow player to maintain the fiction of normal status as long as possible...... before they reveal. Notice the vessel does not have Combustible Cargo – if it DID get killed, well.... everyone would know it wasn’t a genuine Oil Rig.

Hulking and Independent – As with the sister vessel.

Merchant Navy – This makes the vessel slightly different from its sister, in that it doesn’t give back in VP if it survives.

Q-Ship (Aergia) – This addition should be pretty self explanatory.

Reactive Fire (Heavy Q-Gun/Heavy Torpedo Turret) – This allows the vessel to fulfil its Q-Ship requirements!

 

No generators on the Q-ship Oil Rig.....but we did toy with the idea of adding a Target Painter Generator with Telescopic Zoom of 16” to the build....... if folks wish to do so, they might add +15pts to the overall cost.....provided your opponent agree!

 

 

Movement and Manoeuvre

As the sister vessel........

 

 

Squadron Size

AS a Q-ship, there is no squadron size, rather they are included into the squadrons. Costing 65pts each, they are expensive, but with high HP and acting as a focus point of most capture scenarios, its only fair they be costly.

 

 

Conclusion

A nice addition that allowed the box to broaden out its gameplay without pushing the cost up financially for everyone!

 

 

 

Apollo Class Support Carrier

The Look

A simple design that can fit into most of the fleet asthetics.

 

 

Why is it needed?

In this box, we felt it was important to have some 'merchant' TFT coverage. With the Apollo coming in 2 different box sets [The Merchant and the Amphibious Landing Boxes], there should be ample opportunity for folks to use these nifty wee vessels!

 

 

Gunnery, MARs and Generators

This vessel has NO guns. Its a Merchantman for the most part, providing front line flyer support/re-supply for fleets in a general sense.

 

The MARs as simple:

Attachment (All Nations, Medium Naval, 1) - This means everyone can have it....even the Covenant [except they cannot Land on-board]

Fuel Reserves - ....its a Carrier MAR that seems to be pretty universal!

Limited Availability [750] - Mostly to stop spamming, but in truth its probably not needed beyond being good for the fluff. 

Merchant Navy - as above

The Merchant Carrier does NOT have a value in brackets, so no bonus is gained by its survival.

Rugged Construction - This is important because the vessel is likely to be attacked by Small vessels for the most part, as anything larger probably has more important targets to deal with!

Tiny Flyer Compliment (4) - This is a pretty standard allowance for Mediums with TFTs at present, so we carried it forwards. Remember of course the box itself does not come with any TFTs, as this would not have been cost effective to add the TFTs for ALL Nations! :wacko:

 

The Medium Carrier does not have any Generators.

 

 

Movement and Manoeuvre

Moving at a sprightly 8" per activation, the Apollo should be able to keep up with most Cruiser groups.

 

As a medium, the Merchant Carrier uses the Medium Turning Template.

 

 

Squadron Size

Taken in squadrons of 1-2, this allows the Apollo to field 4 Activations when taken at full strength [2xAppollos + 4 TFTs + 3TFTs +1Recon TFT!]....ouch!

 

Not bad for just 60pts each or 120pts for the full Squadron!

 

 

Conclusion

A solid serviceable vessel that gives everyone's TFT volume a good boost.

 

 

 

Overall Box Conclusion

As a scenario gamer more than anything, I am very happy with the Merchant Navy Box. It gives me enough to do pretty much anything I want! Blockades, Ambushes, Rescues, Dummy-Convoys, etc.....the only limit is the imagination of the players.

 

I think it might be nice if I were to ask Spartan Neil to organise a competition amongst the community members to post their own scenarios, using the contents of the box, to give us all a huge resource of ideas from which we might draw upon to fuel our own creations.......I might even get him to pitch up a prize too! If he's willing [and I don’t see why he wouldn’t be!....he's a scenario gamer too....] I'll open a new thread for folks to submit their entries!

 

So get your thinking caps on folks!

 

 

Feel free to post comments and ask any questions!

If you want to read any other write-ups, look the first post in the thread to find them!

http://community.spartangames.co.uk/index.php?/topic/3730-dystopian-wars-playtester-thread/page-1#entry55211

 

Cheers for reading,

Delboy.

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Some of the things about the merchant navy set that really grabbed me in testing include:

 

The tension of 'where are the Q-ships?' The merchant navy player knows, but the opponent doesn't. Writing a name or number on the base of the ship, and having a list of which ships have Qship upgrades, if any, is highly recommended, as  otherwise losing track is a very real possibility.

 

The Q-ships have exactly the same DR, CR and hull points as the merchantmen they replace. This means that a canny player might have let a Q-Ship sink without revealing their guns, and their opponent doesn't know until the end of the game if that was a resource rich merchant man, vital to the scenario, or if it nothing but a Qship.

 

Having to choose  if to go after ships obviously capable of causing damage, or the Merchantmen. In one test,  a player ignored the Carriers in favour of the merchants on that flank and lost an Ika in two turns to repeated TFT strikes. However, they did get the merchants / Qships.

 

Boarding actions feel really very desperate. With average AP and AA, the merchantmen can defend themselves against boarding reasonably, but really need a good reason to try and board something themselves. What would be a walkover for anyone else is an uphill struggle for them. However, the boarding party and salvage crew MARs, when combined with scenario games give them that reason.

 

Oil tankers ( merchantmen with  combustible cargo, fuel reserves, and an enhanced merchant navy value) are seriously bad news if they go up. Trying to hide them in the middle of a formation of other ships is not  the safest of ideas, but neither is leaving these valuable ships unprotected. A teleport leading to the worst of both worlds is just unlucky....

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Delboy loved the review. While I was reading I thought up about five scenarios ! One question, can the Vulcan Repair ship actually repair the oil rig ? ( I have a scenario idea based upon that.)

 

This really isn't a question, but more of a idea about escorts. Since a convoy needs escorts what about modifying the escort rules in order for them to use their ability for the medium class merchants.

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Guest Delboy

Delboy loved the review. While I was reading I thought up about five scenarios ! One question, can the Vulcan Repair ship actually repair the oil rig ? ( I have a scenario idea based upon that.)

 

This really isn't a question, but more of a idea about escorts. Since a convoy needs escorts what about modifying the escort rules in order for them to use their ability for the medium class merchants.

Yes it can! The AP-based Repair rule is pretty flexible.

 

As its stands Rules as Written [RAW] Escorts are limited to Large/Massive models.....but RAW can kiss ma' bum [bona fide Scottish Term] :P !..... If you can think of an idea, use it in your scenarios - that's the point of this box!

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Every time there has been a thread about 'What new ships do you want?', I've piped up saying battlecruisers (got those previously!) and merchantmen. Now I've got them with extra bells and whistles as well!  Q-ships sound great and the oil rigs even better.  Still . . . how about a tanker or collier (sturginier??) for future ideas?  :P

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Sounds great, but... Those are the most ridiculously fast merchies ever. I mean really, 8" per turn? The damned things can out run most battleships and even some cruisers. Hell, they can out run a lot of the flyers in the game. I was excited about the possibilities of these ships, but not even in fever dreams would I have expected them to be "fast movers".

Sorry Delboy, but that's just a bit more than my Disbelief Suspension Generator can cope with. :(

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Every time there has been a thread about 'What new ships do you want?', I've piped up saying battlecruisers (got those previously!) and merchantmen. Now I've got them with extra bells and whistles as well!  Q-ships sound great and the oil rigs even better.  Still . . . how about a tanker or collier (sturginier??) for future ideas?  :P

The Merchantmen are an easy conversion into tankers or colliers, for those who have a mind to, given their hard points...... but the idea of a mega-tanker DOES appeal I must admit! ;)

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Sounds great, but... Those are the most ridiculously fast merchies ever. I mean really, 8" per turn? The damned things can out run most battleships and even some cruisers. Hell, they can out run a lot of the flyers in the game. I was excited about the possibilities of these ships, but not even in fever dreams would I have expected them to be "fast movers".

Sorry Delboy, but that's just a bit more than my Disbelief Suspension Generator can cope with. :(

lol.... 'man up Dan!'

You'll just have to pedal faster!

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Sounds great, but... Those are the most ridiculously fast merchies ever. I mean really, 8" per turn? The damned things can out run most battleships and even some cruisers. Hell, they can out run a lot of the flyers in the game. I was excited about the possibilities of these ships, but not even in fever dreams would I have expected them to be "fast movers".

Sorry Delboy, but that's just a bit more than my Disbelief Suspension Generator can cope with. :(

Dan if you add "Sturginium" to your Disbelief Suspension Generator it makes things more plausible. The "Sturginium" I use is called 101 proof Wild Turkey ! ;)

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The Merchantmen are an easy conversion into tankers or colliers, for those who have a mind to, given their hard points...... but the idea of a mega-tanker DOES appeal I must admit! ;)

Yah that and a mega container ship. How hard would it be for Spartan to change the Olympic troop ship into one of those things ?!! Besides I need something to move a Mobile Airfield like the Kagoshima after its broken down into moveable parts ( albeit very large moveable parts mind you).

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Happily! Does this mean I can give my Magenta Mk.I a Kinetic Generator so that I can use it for commerce raiding duty? ;) Seriously though. How can I do that sort of thing when I can't even catch the target? Merchant ships don't have the speed of warships in any era, setting or genre. And for a damned good reason. It's just not economical to go zipping around at 35 knots. Maybe the Q-ship should be able to hit that turn of speed. But a Cargo ship filled with 10,000+ tons of coal? Not so much.

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Yes it can! The AP-based Repair rule is pretty flexible.

 

As its stands Rules as Written [RAW] Escorts are limited to Large/Massive models.....but RAW can kiss ma' bum [bona fide Scottish Term] :P !..... If you can think of an idea, use it in your scenarios - that's the point of this box!

Excellent Delboy. The specialized repair ship Esso Narvik is ready for a scenario.

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Dan if you add "Sturginium" to your Disbelief Suspension Generator it makes things more plausible. The "Sturginium" I use is called 101 proof Wild Turkey ! ;)

In general I agree; however some real merchant vessels were faster (Royal Fleet Auxiliary).

 

You could slow them down to 6" for a points decrease and a survival points increase if 8" is a problem. Balancing points values may be very hard.

 

As an alternative  try the following MAR

 

"The engines cnna take it captain!"

 

At the end of any movement greater than 6" roll a D6. If a 6 is rolled the model gains the engine damage critical hit.

 

A squadron of 4 merchant vessels going flat out will on average have engines issues over two turns

 

What do people think?

 

Overall impressed; I am getting this box set.

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Happily! Does this mean I can give my Magenta Mk.I a Kinetic Generator so that I can use it for commerce raiding duty? ;) Seriously though. How can I do that sort of thing when I can't even catch the target? Merchant ships don't have the speed of warships in any era, setting or genre. And for a damned good reason. It's just not economical to go zipping around at 35 knots. Maybe the Q-ship should be able to hit that turn of speed. But a Cargo ship filled with 10,000+ tons of coal? Not so much.

 

Well, the great thing about this sort of set is that you can tweak out these values to whatever your scenario requires.  If you want slower cargo ships that can be caught by your big capitals, just drop their movement and write that limitation into your scenario.  Whatever you need to get the game that you're looking for.

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Dellboy, everything looks outstanding.  I do have one question though.  For the Q-Ship Squadron size, If the merchantmen are 2-4 does that mean that the Q-ship Squadron size is also 2-4? I'm kind of confused..

Yup....... any Merchantmen can be Q-ships...... :ph34r:

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Well, the great thing about this sort of set is that you can tweak out these values to whatever your scenario requires.  If you want slower cargo ships that can be caught by your big capitals, just drop their movement and write that limitation into your scenario.  Whatever you need to get the game that you're looking for.

This kinda defeats the purpose of creating stats for all the models.

 

If your being encouraged to just change them just because you don't like a certain element, then why would Spartan bother to create stats at all?

 

 

Now, I'm not really that bothered about this box, but I have to agree with Dan. I had thought the Merchantmen would be slower. Like 6" a turn because who ever thinks that a transport ship is going to be fast?

 

 

I like this box, but unless Spartan have tournament standard scenarios that require these vessels, I think I'll pass on the box and wait for the Support Carrier to get released. It's the only model I want to play with.

 

As to the scenarios, all Spartan need to do is make 3 standard scenarios for each theatre of war specifically, and at least 3 that encompass them all. I mean we already have one that just needs put to paper (the Amphibious Landing scenario)

 

The Naval one, for example, could have:

1-2 - Pitched Battle

3-4 - Convoy Raiding (where the Merchant navy is it's own entity and there are points set aside for it, on top of what the player is already taking. So both players agree to play 1000pts, and threy roll for the mission and it lands on Convoy Raiding. Both players roll to see who is the defending player and he gains and extra (for example) 500pts for the Merchantmen. And he can spend those points in whatever way he likes on the Merchant Navy. Its not a perfect idea, but its and example of what Spartan could do)

5-6 - Some other kind of ~Naval action

 

The Land and Air forces would follow the same format (perhaps. Considering that Armoured Clash and the new Air version of that is coming there may not be any point in doing miussions for these in the standard DW rulebook. But we'll see)

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This kinda defeats the purpose of creating stats for all the models.

 

If your being encouraged to just change them just because you don't like a certain element, then why would Spartan bother to create stats at all?

 

 

 

There are players who want (or even need) everything to be clean and defined and tournament legal, and then there are players who enjoy taking something and building on it, tweaking it out, writing a scenario, and doing something different.  Neither approach is better, and it's okay for Spartan to sometimes make things for the latter group.  And, hey, maybe some people who have only played the former way will use this as an opportunity to try something different.

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I'm not saying that people shouldn't do as they want. I'm just of the opinion that house ruling stat changes kinda defeats the purpose of creating those stats.

 

House ruling on specific rules I accept on two occasions. Where the removal of a rule helps to keep the flow of the game going with no adverse effects because it was a very minor rule. Or, where the original rule is too complex to really play with, or when a rule just doesn't make sense in it's current fashion and needs to be rewritten.

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If your being encouraged to just change them just because you don't like a certain element, then why would Spartan bother to create stats at all?

 

 

Delboy said it himself. They're recommended rules. 

 

It's a lot easier to tweak stuff if you've got a starting point. 

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I really love the idea of the new box! Hurrah for that. I am not too sure about the speed issue; but then that is easily handled if one doesn't like it. Can't wait to get my ships.

 

As for the fixed versus houserules thingy; I would like to see that relaxed and in a calm manner. I have seen too many communities become devided about that matter, be it small playing groups of a handful of players to whole nations....Maybe DW is able to cater for both and the players are able to see both sides of the coin. I totally agree that in a tournament heavy environment fixed stats, streamlined rules and not too many erratas are the way to go. Players like myself, who like to play outside the box, come up with own scenarios normally do not have too many issues with stats or house rules in general (BUT we try to keep it nice and simple too. No need to overcomplicate things).

 

cheers to all!

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