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Official Marauders & Mercenaries Thread: STL Syndicate

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I had a full wing of 6 bombers on it since it was shunted and bombers just came back to hangar to rearm, had 2 frigate escorts too but she took a hit before and a single frigate got destroyed so her allready low PD was basicaly screwed.

Dont think she would become terran bc, it would just balance her out so she can be taken in a squadron.

Suggestions are allways welcome.

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After playing quite a few games with syndicate I gotta say that Spur should go in a squadron in 1200+ pts game, I done my homework, tried it in a 1200 pt game solo and as a test in 1200 pt game in a pair.

Its a serious liability when deployed in 1200 point game, mine cought the attention of a terran carrier and got its ass whooped by 2 squadrons of fighters, double crit and a hit from a carrier and Im out of firepower all together and I was in perfect range band to strike.

Such a shame that I cant use it in larger games and I got a second phantom to replace her for sheer survivability.

If Spur got a bit of rebalancing and could be deployed in a squadron as all BCs can it would be my favorite squadron just for sheer sexy looks of it.

 

The Spur took 5hp of damage and had it's primary firepower gutted, a symptom that isn't unique to the Spur. Pretty much any ship has gutted firepower when it's nearly dead. That point isn't relevant, especially when the Spur can field a Carrier strength compliment of SRS.

As for liability at 1200 points, well perception is a funny thing. Case in point that Terran Carrier from your own example is just as vulnerable as the Spur to being destroyed and surrendering Battle Log. Carriers in general are just as tough as BCs and BCs are just as tough as Carriers (exceptions exist). So I find it funny that lone BCs are considered "bad" at 1200 but lone Carriers are perfectly fine? Something that surrenders the same Battle Log and has less direct offensive output than a BC is fine, but a BC isn't? So if the Spur Battlecruiser was called a Spur Battle Carrier would this discussion even be had?

The Spur also will not exist in 1-2 squads while they can individually field 6 SRS and simultaneously output more direct weapon AD than a Carrier in the same price range, they can currently be a Carrier and a Battlecruiser at the same time.

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Im sorry but I disagree with you, that kinda of setup for spur costs 140 +5 (4 wings) +30 srs +50 escorts  +10 decimator beams overall 235 points, Carriers (the terran from the above example has 3 shields on 3+ from aegis escorts and 7 HP, it has a bit lower dr cr though) have in general way better protection then a solo battlecruiser, Spur cant be buffed or she would be in battleship range with stats, she is damn close as it is now, but without BB protection or durability.

She loses the long term fight cause she cant stay in a firefight due to needed choice of taking either 6 wings or aditional shield, she has low PD so buying escorts is a must, or using all your wings defensively by deploying them as fighters / interceptors thus again losing offensive abbility, she doesnt have torps of any kind so buying SRS is a must if you get stuck in, and you dont have the speed of a standard BC to turn and run without sacrificing either offensive or defensive abbility.

My point isnt that spur needs a buff, Im saying she needs a bit of rebalancing to be either able to be taken in pairs or give her the speed of a battlecruiser so she can run and gun solo, Im a fan of the 1st option cause all BCs run in pairs in other fleets so Im failing to see the point in forcing syndicate to take them as a single choice only, I do agree that as they are now they get a lot of dice in range band 2 when they go in pair, but lets be honest that setup costs an arm and a leg 280 points for 2 spurs 70 points for a SRS upgrade and 20 for decimator upgrade thats  370 points, that my friend is allrady in dreadnought price range without the tankyness and a durability of a dread, not to mention lack of torpedoes for a significant range disadvantage.

That squadron would be really nasty upclose but, do you really think it would get close without suffering some major focused fire, I dont.

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So lets completely discount the extra point of DR and CR the Spur has shall we? Because solid unyielding stats are inferior to variable fluke stats?

The Ares relies on chance to be tough, it is in no way reliably tougher than the Spur, it is purely through the chance of shields that the Ares can be tougher, and shields are never a solid unyielding defence.

Also Aegis escort costs an extra 50pts minimum putting you at 255-260 points which is more than the Spur and now that package surrenders even more Battle Log because you now have a Capital Accompaniment, then if you have a 2nd Aegis you are now 305-310 in the same price range as the cheapest of all DNs for a package that is tougher purely because of Medium Accompaniment that surrenders more Battle Log and again the Core ship of the squad is still largely the same durability as the Spur, except again this core ship doesn't have the same direct weapon output as the Spur.

As for getting close, that boils down to in-game tactics, Marshals, Apollos, Titans, several Relthoza ships, Sorylian ships, STL, and others all want to get close. Closing in isn't a new strategy, many other ships have to do it, perfect example the Marshal BC which has no better PD protection than the Spur (even a squad of 2 Marshals has the same vs SRS and torps).

The Spur is a finesse piece and is great at coming on in a position where only 1 enemy squadron/ship can retaliate (which is the one it is targeting). Being in a position to get slam dunked by 12 SRS(a once per game trick I might add, the Ares can't keep doing that) and a Carrier's guns was not the fault of the Spur, any BC would've suffered a similar fate, same with any Carrier. Same with the Marshal BC, the same tricks to deliver a Marshal up close apply to the Spur.

 

Another example:

Spur (140)

+4 SRS (5)

6 Bombers (30)

2 Shadow Frigates (50)

 

Total: 225pts

 

Attacks: 21AD all in attack, 7 AD off-arc attack. 11 AD attack, 7 AD and 8AD off attacks, 2x 6AD accompaniment attacks. 18AD bomber attack

Battle Log: +5 to the enemy, -4 to you, assuming total squad destruction.

 

Ares (125)

+3 SRS (5)

+1SH (10)

Beams (10) to synergise with Aegis attachment

12 Bombers (60)

2x Aegis accompaniment (100)

 

Total: 310pts

 

Attacks: 14AD all in attack, 2x 7AD off-arc attacks, 6AD torpedo attack. 8AD, 2x 7AD off attacks, 2x 6AD accompaniment attacks, 6AD torpedo attack. 18AD bomber attack (with the once per game ability to make 2x 18AD bomber attack)

Battle Log: +7 to the enemy, -4 to you, assuming total squad destruction.

 

So for 85pts less I have a squad that has equal to superior offensive output than the Ares with 2 Aegis accompaniments, surrenders less Battle Log, and only the Aegis attachment makes the squad harder to kill, which for +85pts and no increase in offensive potential over the Spur group is kind of wanted.

 

The Spur stacks up quite favourably to one of the best Carriers in the game (the Ares), it can equal or exceed the output of the Ares, and is close to equal in durability as the Ares. Again perception is the issue here, there is nothing wrong with the ship it is no worse than other similar investments, the expectation that it should be a 2 ship squad because of the "Battlecruiser" tag is unfair when the ship was never designed as a multi ship squad, it was always a single ship squad.

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You have a right to your oppinion, and I have a right to mine.

I got my oppinion on basis of a games played both a single ship setup with Spur and a test with a 2 ship squadron.

Again Im not saying that Spur is a bad ship, IMO she is a fine ship in smaller game, Im stating as many will agree with me that a single spur with escorts gives battle log points too easy in larger games even when I shunt her, wich is her primary use, atm.

My idea was to make her more flexible that was why I would like her movement to be increased to make her more flexible in deployment, right now even if I deploy her on a far flank ,she will get shot to shreds cause I cant go in the thick of fighting with her and I cant not go forward due to her weapons loadout.

If spur is gonna stay a single ship squadron (wich I hope will change in time) she needs a basic movement increase even if that means hitting her with a nerfbat somewhere else.

I would just gove her lower stats and enable her to be taken in a squadron, just cause that would be the most awsome looking squadron in the game, Im so annoyed that this beautifull model is losing deployment spot to my phantom simply because for 40 points more u get a way more survivable squadron with same escorts, and way more firepower.

I really want to field the Spur, but I want to win more, sorry its a fact of life.

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I did try it with 2 shields, 2 interceptors and 2 escorts, but it still gets a lot of focus and, if I go with that setup I might as well lose a frigate and buy a phantom with 3 shield 4 srs and a 2 escorts wich will survive longer and project the same or better firepower.

Its allmost allways in 1200 pts game better to go 2 phantoms then phantom / spur combo, speaking from game expirience.

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I am about to sell my Syndicate ships, incl. the scratch built gunships to a friend (from all races he has chosen Syndicate, and he really is good with them).

All but 1 Spur and 2 frigates. Those will be my 200 points Marauder allies. Painted in Erebi style Space Police :-)

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I tried Spur in all shapes and size as I simply love to see the model on the table, it just looks absolutely beautiful gliding into combat.

My problem with her as I stated before is both inability to get her in a squadron of 2, or get into combat quick enough to utilize her attack power without Spur getting shot to shreds and losing a lot of AD before 1st shot is fired.

Only way to get her to use her firepower as far as I have been able to test it is to shunt her, wich is kinda limited use IMO because even there its better to buy a phantom. If she had speed 9 you could potentially rush a flank with her escorts, as it is now there are just too many better options to deploy, hell if you wanna go tier 1 heavy get 2 phantoms and a racketeer, that combo absolutety kicks ass, ton of wings, lot of firepower, and racketeer shunted in is just plain mean.

It just makes me sad tbh that the best looking model I have seen in a long time is collecting dust instead of being on the table.

I would love to talk to some testers about this model, I just think that if she had better initial speed and some unique upgrades of her own it would absolutely be worth it to take her in larger games, and if she was a 2 model squadron, well then it would be a must for any self-respecting crime lord:)

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New to the game and am absolutely taken with STL!

Got the first of my fleet in with a Spur and was very disappointed with the fit.  A significant gap with wverything but the engine piece.  Did I get a bum cast or have others had the same problem.  What to do, thinking to use a little liquid green stuff.

 

Second note, using Battleship Submarines pointed backwards for frigates.  Size wise they would be better corvettes but we don't have them for now.  Think I could petition to use the OSO corvette stats with my models once I find a better frigate substitute.

 

Comments appretiated.  This thread has been a huge help. 

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I have 2 Spurs, one had some disturbing alignment issues because of casting. E.g. left side is about 1mm higher than right side.

The Phantom had also issues, but only 0,5mm.

I should think SG will make new casting forms

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I dont see anything but with spur except its class. if it was called heavy carrier, or blabla carrier no one will make a fuss over it.

plus if you are gonna pay 225 points for a spur and 2 frigates, i strongly suggest taking a phantom BB Q.launch +2 srs 6 bombers  for 215.

 


what are you guys using as frigates and gunships?

I thought of using naboo champion cruiser for either one. but I'll like to hear your thoughts.

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Well this week i finally repaired the university's 3D printer, and after your tutorial _wyrm_ I decided to 3D model my own frigates and gunship until spartan releases them.

so after 1 day modelling and several breaks at work i did this.

shadowfrigate_fore_zps82d7e345.jpg

 

shadowfrigate_zpsd393e2bb.jpg

 

shadowback_zps4ba67a1d.jpg

 

tomorrow I'll do a test printing to see how they go.


and Yes is based on the naboo champion cruiser.
 

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Well this week i finally repaired the university's 3D printer, and after your tutorial _wyrm_ I decided to 3D model my own frigates and gunship until spartan releases them.

so after 1 day modelling and several breaks at work i did this.

shadowfrigate_fore_zps82d7e345.jpg

 

shadowfrigate_zpsd393e2bb.jpg

 

shadowback_zps4ba67a1d.jpg

 

tomorrow I'll do a test printing to see how they go.

and Yes is based on the naboo champion cruiser.

 

I was going to say that the Noobians called and wanted to know where to send the C&D letters.

 

I look forward to seeing the finished print and the finished model!

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Sorry guys i has taken much mroe time than what i expected. 

Also due to a bad result on the shadow frigate i redid de model.

alfter several test, i decided to sculp the turrets and add the final details in greenstuff, being this solution the fastest and easiest to obtain a satisfactory result.

heres the new shadow frigate model.
frigate_zps68345604.png

 

and here is my first squadron fresh out from the 3d printer.
IMG_0803_zps968ee877.jpg

 

Once I finish greenstuffing them I'll upload a new picture.

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