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RicV

1.09 QATD vs Massed fire

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OK well digesting the 1.09 rules and found the new Hex Sharpshooters have the special rule Massed fire. In the massed fire it seems to have an exception for QATD checks but I dont understand how it makes a difference. The new rule states "....Initial Targets using the Quick and the Dead against Shoot Actions using Massed Fire reduces the RoA from the action equal to the value of The Quick and the Dead's successful Quick check rather than the usual rule effect."

The QATD rules says all hits are ignored, so  for this to have an effect you have to assume the "usual rule effect" that is being replaced is the QATD rule, otherwise this has no bearing on anything.  Also it would also mean you take more shot the more successful the roll for the QATD. Say the target is Q4 and rolled a 9, QATD success is a 13, so you get 13 shots instead of the normal max of 6? 

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2 hours ago, RicV said:

OK well digesting the 1.09 rules and found the new Hex Sharpshooters have the special rule Massed fire. In the massed fire it seems to have an exception for QATD checks but I dont understand how it makes a difference. The new rule states "....Initial Targets using the Quick and the Dead against Shoot Actions using Massed Fire reduces the RoA from the action equal to the value of The Quick and the Dead's successful Quick check rather than the usual rule effect."

The QATD rules says all hits are ignored, so  for this to have an effect you have to assume the "usual rule effect" that is being replaced is the QATD rule, otherwise this has no bearing on anything.  Also it would also mean you take more shot the more successful the roll for the QATD. Say the target is Q4 and rolled a 9, QATD success is a 13, so you get 13 shots instead of the normal max of 6? 

In that scenario, the Target reduces the ROA of the Firing model by 13, so if the ROA is 6, then all shots will miss the target.

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I am struggling to see what benefit this rule has. If tQatD saves, then most targets with tQatD shall have Q high enough to ignore all shots anyway, and if they fail, how is one attack with a high RoA any different to failing tQatD against a unit anyway?

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1 minute ago, Barrdyn said:

I am struggling to see what benefit this rule has. If tQatD saves, then most targets with tQatD shall have Q high enough to ignore all shots anyway, and if they fail, how is one attack with a high RoA any different to failing tQatD against a unit anyway?

The new rules allow for a better approximation of the success of dodging fire than the old rules.

I only play Warrior Nations, so I will use them for this example.

 

Let's say Walks Looking, a Quick 6 Boss is getting shot at by a maximum sized unit of Plains Warriors (20 models.) The two options are: OPTION 1: a single model with ROA 20 (new rules) and OPTION 2: 20 models with ROA 1 (old rules).

 

OPTION 1: Let's say that Walks looking rolls average and gets a 5. Combined with Quick 6, that gives her a Quick Check of 11, which passes the target number of 10. Since she passed, Walks Looking cancels out ROA equal to her Quick check, which was 11. That means only 9 models will actually get to shoot her, representing her dodging half the unit, but there being simply too much firepower to dodge it all. Let's hope she is wearing thick leathers....

 

OPTION 2: 20 Models fire at Walks Looking, and she rolls a Critical Success! That scores her an impressive 15 on her Quick Check. This negates the ROA of ONE MODEL. Therefore, the greatest leap of her life, encapsulating a triple somersault over a wagon, with a twist to clear a nearby child and avoid being stomped on by a spooked horse, allows her to avoid ONE shot. And presumably the other 19 cut her down like wheat.

 

Apologies for the hyperbole and overly exaggerated example.

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In option two you are meaaasuring line of sight and range from each individual model as well. So you may have less than the 19 viable but that is a big unit, it will work out.

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I have seen peeps playing this 3 different ways.

1. The totalled success is number of hits negated.

2. Negate the value of the qatd quick in shots

3. Negate by the number the quick check exceeds 10.

I believe 1 is correct...

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As I circled in the photo, models must be in range, and do not make their own Aim Check, which is only possible if they have LOS to the Initial Target.

The result of the Quick Check (Quick +D10) is the total number of ROA that is negated. It sounds like that is what you said in 1, but it is a little unclear. 2 and 3 are incorrect.

Screenshot_20190730-112809_Adobe Acrobat.jpg

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Absolutely agree with how you are reading it.  WHen 1.09 dropped a warhost did a breakdown video on youtube and cited it at number 2. Different analysis on facebook showed it as 3.

 

Ah and now I reread you do not have the option to take individual shots unless dissimilar weapon. The massed fire says you must choose the single model etc etc 

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Yeah, I think there is going to be a fair amount of misreading, misunderstanding, misremembering and confusing rules from 1.08-1.09 at least for a while. Some huge changes there, along with some sneaky little stealth changes. Like Spirit Aim no longer ignoring negative modifiers to Aim value.

 

Yeah, I believe it is designed to force you to speed up the process, rather than bogging it down. Tbh, unless QatD or a specific rule, our playgroup used to roll the whole unit anyway. Don't forget you can also dodge Massed Fire by Combining Fire. They are incompatible.

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