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Overread

Ships from the UK Expo shot!

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As its a battlegroup I assume they are cruiser not gunships, however they appear to be heavier armed (or at least a wider variety of weapons) than the cruisers we've had before. Battleship, Cruiser and Frigates in the core set (as we've always had). Gunships are more specialist than main-line so I'd expect to see them appear later.

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Certainly interesting that while the other models can be kind of matched up to existing patterns, the larger vessel has three turrets ala the Battlecruiser but has forward facing torpedoes and a broadside, and size wise seems closer to a battleship.  The smalls with two turrets and broadsides seems like the heavy destroyer no change there then in load out.  The cruiser pattern has forward facing torpedoes, which is common to British mediums, and two turret  hard points, and a broadside.  While this is similar to early versions of the Tribal cruiser which had two turrets, forward facing torpedoes and side torpedoes, and could be used to provide a version of the Agincourt, with forward gun turret and rear torpedo turret, or the support cruiser with turret and sonar gen, as it seems to be one resin model rather than the speculated plastic and no means as far as I can tell to replace the broadsides with torpedo broadsides it seems harder to directly port over the existing models.  However, this could just be a resin master, with the real thing having the alternative broadsides and therefore allowing a continuity of models and rules that would ease over the process of change.

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Continuity of rules might or might not happen and we might well see the earlier ships being far more generalist in their loadout of weapons; with more specialist niche ships coming in the future. 

And yes we've no idea how many parts the ships will come in to know what other varieties and structures there might be. Certainly there's potential to get a lot of ship variety out of a single hull type. 

 

 

We'll have to wait and see, although I suspect we won't see huge deviation in appearance from what we've seen there - the refinement are likely to be small adjustments to details. Eg one thing that might be nice would be having the triple barrel guns on the side being a little more spaced out (although this could just be the low resolution of the camera making it appear less spread out and distinct). 

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Thanks for the clarification Richard!

 

Out of interest how is the detail going to line up with expected casting/mould lines? The detail on these ships looks fantastic, so I'd hate to see areas of high detail damaged by mould lines (and presenting a nightmare for hte average gamer). 

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Go back 10 or 15 or so years I'd be worried about these in plastic, however having seen what Hawk Wargames can achieve with their plastics I'd be more than happy for models of this quality in plastic. I think the trick is avoiding what happened to Privateer Press who have used some plastics that were softer on teh edge details than is ideal. It wasn't as bad from them as the scale of the models meant that a little softening wasn't a huge issue; but for something like Dystopian Wars the level of detail and the scale means its really got to be crisp (plus you've had a lot of resin out there in the market already so Warcradle has to live up to Spartans quality). 

I've not seen the WWE stuff in plastic in the flesh to know how that is nor how it might compare to Hawks stuff. 

 

I can readily agree that if the core ships for each race are in plastic it would be a huge boon for the company in being able to have hte highest volume selling product in a cheaper material that's faster to work with (I believe plastics are faster/easier to work with than resin - the trade off being that plastic is super expensive to get into with moulds). 

 

Here is to hoping that the background testing goes well for WC! 

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It seem quite obvious to me that these new ships will have many swapable parts and will be able to not only represent most of the equivalent old classes but also a wide variety of new type of ships.

 

I guess that both the cruiser and battleship will have swapable turrets and probably also generators.

 

The ships shown were clearly standard Frigate, Cruiser and Battleship hulls.

 

I must say these new ships look very good. I'm probably going to buy some of these models even if I don't like the rules, never been fond of the Spartan Games rules in general.

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3 hours ago, Jorgen_CAB said:

It seem quite obvious to me that these new ships will have many swapable parts and will be able to not only represent most of the equivalent old classes but also a wide variety of new type of ships.

At the moment there seems to be a new pattern of KoB battleship that would work only as a replacement for the Raj battleship, and a cruiser that doesn't quite match up.  So it depends how modular they will be, or how large the classics range are.  

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4 hours ago, RuleBritannia said:

At the moment there seems to be a new pattern of KoB battleship that would work only as a replacement for the Raj battleship, and a cruiser that doesn't quite match up.  So it depends how modular they will be, or how large the classics range are.  

Probably not so much... first of the rules can be changed in a way that certain combination now are required on the older models.  So, Britannia battleships will have three heavy turret hardpoints and one or more generator hardpoints. The Britannia battleship model shown had three heavy turrets and four generators. Those four actually might be just two real hardpoints though, one forward and one in the back each pair is one hardpoint. Just guessing here of course, but it would roughly fit the current Britannia ships quite well.

 

I actually expect the old models to follow the same building guidelines as the new ships. You might have to make some tweaks here and there to make it work though.

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What I think will be a very neat mechanic is the position of weapons on ships. That really excites me not just in the potential of the ship dealing damage, but also taking damage as well. It lends itself to modular health trees (esp for bigger ships). Lets not forget this is a world of giant airships, robots and other machines so having ships with modular weapon setups lends itself well to a future where we could see huge weapons of war come to the table with modular damage tables as well. 

 

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Given the looks of these new models, it is most likely that each hardpoint is modular between x y and z (with limits to how many and/or where some items, such as generators, are allowed). This allows for older models to be "configuration a" "configuration b" etc of the new model.

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Yep, which if the plastics go well should cut down on the number of products WC has to produce early on  to give us a diverse army roster out of a single box. That should let them get several core factions out without too much difficulty (since I suspect their early focus will be to get as many factions on the table as possible then steadily flesh them out with more diverse choices). 

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7 hours ago, Nazduruk_Bugzappa said:

Given the looks of these new models, it is most likely that each hardpoint is modular between x y and z (with limits to how many and/or where some items, such as generators, are allowed). This allows for older models to be "configuration a" "configuration b" etc of the new model.

I think it looks like turrets and generators have their own hardpoints now, at least the models shown looks like that. So turret hardpoints will only hold weapons and generator hardpoints will only hold generators. I think this is a good approach from a  game balance perspective.

 

So now you can choose both what kinds of weapons and what kinds of generators you want to have on your ships in any combination. Or at least what is allowed for that particular ship type.

 

For example the Britannia cruiser have two heavy turret slots and one generator slot, here you can combine any number of turret and generator options to get a cruiser that works well in your force and your play style. Do you want a long range slugger with high damage resistance you can create such a ship or do you want a fast short ranged ship you can customise it for that purpose too.

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8 minutes ago, Jorgen_CAB said:

For example the Britannia cruiser have two heavy turret slots and one generator slot, here you can combine any number of turret and generator options to get a cruiser that works well in your force and your play style. Do you want a long range slugger with high damage resistance you can create such a ship or do you want a fast short ranged ship you can customise it for that purpose too.

Yep, Spartan sort of did this but never carried it through with a huge weapon variety and many ships you'd only swap out a generator or two here and there for a gun. WC is taking it two steps further by not only making weapon choices more diverse, but also making the positions far more critical. 

Later on I'm sure we'll see specialist ships appear once more, eg a long range ship that's better than a cruiser built for long range (or just cheaper in points with perhaps lower armour as its not a front-line ship etc.....). 

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You could simply have a range finder generator and use that with a long range turret and then you can have a shield generator with shorter range heat lance turret. This would essentially create just that using the same hull frame.

 

In my opinion, new hull frames should make something more significant to distinguish themselves from other hull frames or you will risk unbalancing the game if you make certain hull type perform certain tasks better than what others can do in a similar way. If they pull of the customisation of these different hull frames they will not need to release gunships, heavy destroyers and hull frames like that since you can use the customisation of the Frigate and Cruiser hull to do those jobs.

 

Instead they should concentrate on hull frames that are very different such as carrier, submarine, flyers, skimmer and many more factions.

 

Since you will play in alliances you should be able to add more variety to your force by using different cruiser hull frames for example to make your force the way you like it to be with a huge amount of variety.

 

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I think I recall a post by someone from WC stating that they were going to focus on individual factions standing alone rather than in a "soup" system that DWwars was heading toward near the end of Spartan's life. Personally I prefer distinct armies over souped armies as when you start having formal competitive alliances between major factions you can fast end up eroding both balance, variety and astethetics as it allows very extreme min-maxing (and makes it harder to balance armies)

 

It is, of course, different when you've a single faction intentionally made up of allied smaller factions (eg mercenary forces). 

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On 6/9/2018 at 6:56 PM, Overread said:

I think I recall a post by someone from WC stating that they were going to focus on individual factions standing alone rather than in a "soup" system that DWwars was heading toward near the end of Spartan's life. Personally I prefer distinct armies over souped armies as when you start having formal competitive alliances between major factions you can fast end up eroding both balance, variety and astethetics as it allows very extreme min-maxing (and makes it harder to balance armies)

 

It is, of course, different when you've a single faction intentionally made up of allied smaller factions (eg mercenary forces). 

One way to handle this is if you can buy forces as smaller Task-Forces what must inlude a certain amount of type of ships. You could then have each Task-force come from different factions within the same Alliance. 

A "Battle Squadron" might be 1 BB, 2 CR and 6 FF, a Carrier Task Force 1 CV, 3 CR, 4 FF  or some such... may differ from faction to faction as well...

Some people just like to get more varied ship designs and this might be a good way to do that. 

 

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8 hours ago, sleeping_squirrel said:

If in plastic, I hope variants of some elements will be included on a sprue so we will be able to dintinguish two "same" ships visually .... or additional plating to make heavy ships etc.

Right now Games Workshop is about the only company that really invests in "bling" on models.  Most other companies stick to fixed attachments. Detail additions would be nice, but don't forget the weapon choices you make would be the first line of telling your ships apart from each other; and subtle paint marks can do the rest. 

Though heavier armour addons or optional detailing parts would be neat. 

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On 6/11/2018 at 5:29 AM, Jorgen_CAB said:

One way to handle this is if you can buy forces as smaller Task-Forces what must inlude a certain amount of type of ships. You could then have each Task-force come from different factions within the same Alliance. 

A "Battle Squadron" might be 1 BB, 2 CR and 6 FF, a Carrier Task Force 1 CV, 3 CR, 4 FF  or some such... may differ from faction to faction as well...

Some people just like to get more varied ship designs and this might be a good way to do that. 

 

The way planetfall was set up worked best for this. Taking a particular detachment allowed you to take certain subgroups.

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