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On 3/23/2018 at 11:22 PM, Stoobert said:

FYI, Derek Sinclair, the principal author of the 3.0beta Firestorm Armada rules last year, has been introduced as one of two designers (both former Spartan guys) who will be heading up Dystopian rules for Warcradle this year.

And with that, my interest in the project dies. I have nothing against the man as a person,  but I couldn't stand Planetfall, his take on Dystopian, and I doubt I'll like his take on FA. I'll check the rules out when they're done, but don't expect miracles out of it.

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Hi guys it has been a while and Murphy is back , 3D movement  there is a way to do 3D but I do not think it would   be good for the game and I think it would be way too complex and  time comsumming . when I lived in Sacramento about 3 years ago  I went to one of the game conventions. there .I found a man who came up with  a WW2  Dogfighting game. the models were mounted on a telescoping peg. I in fact tried this game  and though I liked the feel of the game it took a long time to do movement because you had to stay true  to  how the airplanes  move through the air. we all want to shorten the time it takes to  move in this game not make it longer

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5 hours ago, Pok said:

And with that, my interest in the project dies. I have nothing against the man as a person,  but I couldn't stand Planetfall, his take on Dystopian, and I doubt I'll like his take on FA. I'll check the rules out when they're done, but don't expect miracles out of it.

You have the most piss poor attitude when it comes to the future of anything. Lighten up.

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8 hours ago, Pok said:

And with that, my interest in the project dies. I have nothing against the man as a person,  but I couldn't stand Planetfall, his take on Dystopian, and I doubt I'll like his take on FA. I'll check the rules out when they're done, but don't expect miracles out of it.

Derek has been announced as being involved with the rules development for Dystopian Wars. Nothing has been announced for Firestorm. 

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5 hours ago, murphy'slawofcombat said:

Hi guys it has been a while and Murphy is back , 3D movement  there is a way to do 3D but I do not think it would   be good for the game and I think it would be way too complex and  time comsumming . when I lived in Sacramento about 3 years ago  I went to one of the game conventions. there .I found a man who came up with  a WW2  Dogfighting game. the models were mounted on a telescoping peg. I in fact tried this game  and though I liked the feel of the game it took a long time to do movement because you had to stay true  to  how the airplanes  move through the air. we all want to shorten the time it takes to  move in this game not make it longer

I've seen this game, or something like it, at Gencon.  It looks really cool.  If we ever get a working hologram system, I would be all in for converting FSA.  Until then, 2D will have to serve.

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1 hour ago, Toxic_Rat said:

If we ever get a working hologram system, I would be all in for converting FSA.

Then it would no longer be a miniatures game. Now if you could make the models hover...........

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7 hours ago, Warcradle Stuart said:

Derek has been announced as being involved with the rules development for Dystopian Wars. Nothing has been announced for Firestorm. 

Speaking of which, if I may ask, when will there be an announcement on Firestorm game(s) development?   Also in a podcast you mentioned a fiction author, any news on that too?

 

11 hours ago, murphy'slawofcombat said:

 the models were mounted on a telescoping peg. I in fact tried this game  and though I liked the feel of the game it took a long time to do movement because you had to stay true  to  how the airplanes  move

This is probably "Check Your 6".  I have played it and have planes and rules myself.  It takes ~90min to simulate a 2vs2 dogfight in WW2.    It is a neat simulation once a year or so, but I agree it is not an inspiration of where I think Firestorm goes.  FSA is an "Admiral's strategy game" played at a fleet level, not a simulation.

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Personally I'm not expecting any Firestorm news until after Dystopian has relaunched in the latter half of this year. Whilst its a huge pain to wait, lets not forget that Spartan Games didn't merge or sell up it went into administration  and its demise wasn't smooth (and the process of admin, sale and moving the equipment isn't easy and there's a lot of stuff that has to get moved around and sorted out). So WC had a lot to clean up and sort out not least of which is building their own factory to produce models (which is a good thing as it means they are keeping or at least aiming to keep production in-house rather than farm out to overseas factories which can be cheaper, but come with their own set of problems - esp in quality control*).

The one bonus is that as they are not merging Firestorm into another franchise the WC team might not have to change much to the models themselves. So the design period might be much shorter; they might even skip that whole step and put the old moulds back to use and production. 

 

*There's more than one KS team who have found  factory, got great test and master copies made and the found that the mass production side has way too many errors and problems for  high grade miniature model customers.  

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I am also going crazy waiting for new stuff from WC. If and when they get the ball rolling again I would hope they would repress ALL the old models first. I have been looking at the ship yard and am supprised at how maney  people ar looking for Razorthorns and Templars . personally I would like to get a few more of thoes and  a few Zeniths

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At present we don't even know if WC is going to redesign fleets or not. Firestorm isn't being merged into another franchise so in theory they can keep the ships looking as they were with maybe some touching up here and there*; and bringing all ships up to a modern design if any older, less quality, elements are still around in some fleets. 

They might go for some redesigns and if they change the rules around might introduce some new ships or adjust existing ones to new roles; eps if they introduce any new weapon types/mechanics into the game itself. 

 

 

* eg the Dindrenzie dreadnought has a middle section insert that feels very after-thought added as the underside of it has no detailing at all - now granted the underside isn't as critical as the rest, but when every other ship has detailing on all sides it really stands out as a bit sloppy - esp on such a big model.

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The way Warcradle Richard talked about it in another thread (I'll try to find a link when I'm not at work) we know they have all the 3D model data and most if not all of the molds chaotically uncategorised and arranged. I am certain they won't put out a model under the Warcradle name unless the model and mold fits their standards. I'm sure we have all run into some rough extra lines of pewter and plastic in some spartan models, I have faith in Warcradle to take a strong look at that too.

 

Just please dont change the scale :wub:

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On 27/01/2018 at 6:47 AM, Warcradle Richard said:

 

Ok, where are we. 

We literally had all the molds and masters etc chucked into pallet containers. When they arrived with us.  When a company enters administration usually it isn't an orderly and organized process.  So we had this huge amount of stuff that we have had to work our way through. Including an additional 25 pallets found in another location, that though it had no value, was really an important thing for us to be able to control the disposal of.  

Then we have had to back up and protect the huge amount of data for the assets. Well over 16TB, that wasn't well protected. So we had to build the local storage solution, then ensure it was backed up and safe whatever happened in transit.   Lots of issues with the files... We had to audit them to remove any items related to Halo. 

Then we have to start looking at SKUs.  I know it seems simple to say here is a mold, that must be a single product. But it isn't like that at all.  Most of the molds are not labeled in any way.  We have mold labels at Warcradle which are actually molded into the mold making process.  So we have to identify what constitutes a product then start finding the molds for them.  We already have an ERP system at Warcradle to put the data in, but though there was an equivalent on the Spartan kit we acquired,  It had been deactivated months before administration due to non-payment so we didn't have access. So building assembly lists for products takes a while.

Add to that there being almost no Studio minis present... Despite them being photographed everywhere in packaging and books, and then lots of missing equipment that had managed to vanish between going into administration and us visiting... amazingly it was a selection of equipment that would allow manufacturing of a wide range of products. One of the 3d printers vanishing.  The list of frustrations goes on. 

So since then, we have been building data, assessing molds, getting data into our ERP and expanding production facilities. Had all our creative guys work on design libraries for the games and various factions too. Making our facilities safe etc. For example, we have proper ventilation and air quality infrastructure for casting environments and resin residues are dealt with responsibly. We have proper health and safety plans. As opposed to just chucking out empty resin buckets at the back of the factory like Spartan did.

Loads of meetings and investment in how things are going to be arranged moving forwards.  

It is important that we do things properly.

Figured I might as well just put his full explanation here :)

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1 hour ago, Wolfgang Jannesen said:

The way Warcradle Richard talked about it in another thread (I'll try to find a link when I'm not at work) we know they have all the 3D model data and most if not all of the molds chaotically uncategorised and arranged. I am certain they won't put out a model under the Warcradle name unless the model and mold fits their standards. I'm sure we have all run into some rough extra lines of pewter and plastic in some spartan models, I have faith in Warcradle to take a strong look at that too.

 

Just please dont change the scale :wub:

 

I think the scale change is only for the Dystopian ground war game; I can't imagine a need to change the scale in any other game since none of the others tie into anything else - the only one they might is Uncharted Seas, but that project is likely years off before being visited. 

Being fair to Spartan I never had any problems with their models made, designed and released after Dystopian Wars (when I jumped on). In general their resin production was great as were their metals. Miniature production Spartan could do really well and at a good price so WC has some big boots to fill on that score (though I'm sure they'll rise to the challenge and their WWX stuff seems to do really well already though I must admit I've not bought into that line)

And good find on that thread - good idea to drop that message in here!

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35 minutes ago, Stoobert said:

:o @Wolfgang Jannesen wow that sounds like a total mess.  Thanks for this story I hadn’t read that yet. It gives me a lot of perspective on what WC have had to do before production begins.  

It partly came from me loudly conplaining about the lack of rushed new firestorm models, and getting put in my place by those in the know :P

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4 hours ago, Stoobert said:

:o @Wolfgang Jannesen wow that sounds like a total mess.  Thanks for this story I hadn’t read that yet. It gives me a lot of perspective on what WC have had to do before production begins.  

Yeah, that's often the case isn't it?   Lot's more going on behind the scenes than we realize.

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Yes, I do understand there problem  and there is so much they need to straighten out first, still doesn't  make it that easy for us, waiting for something to come out. And before you go there I am glad to wait and get some cool model from WC than a hacked up job.  I also feel very confident in WC's ability to come out with something that looks awesome.  I also think we as a group need to hammer out the rules first and give WC our ideas and experience in the game to make FSA the best game out there. 

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46 minutes ago, murphy'slawofcombat said:

Yes, I do understand there problem  and there is so much they need to straighten out first, still doesn't  make it that easy for us, waiting for something to come out. And before you go there I am glad to wait and get some cool model from WC than a hacked up job.  I also feel very confident in WC's ability to come out with something that looks awesome.  I also think we as a group need to hammer out the rules first and give WC our ideas and experience in the game to make FSA the best game out there. 

Of course! Go peruse the general firestorm forums mate, we have threads up discussing every side of the game and there are a lot of rule discussions on the go right now

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22 hours ago, Wolfgang Jannesen said:

Of course! Go peruse the general firestorm forums mate, we have threads up discussing every side of the game and there are a lot of rule discussions on the go right now

Yes, and that is what I am doing I have been off line for some time and just now getting back, so please! have a little compassion with me . 

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On 3/27/2018 at 5:41 PM, Warcradle Stuart said:

Derek has been announced as being involved with the rules development for Dystopian Wars. Nothing has been announced for Firestorm. 

Doesn’t really matter.

It’s a clear indication of the type of games you’re apparently aiming for.

And, like Pok, I have no interest whatsoever in the type of games Derek & Co produce.

Nothing personal, just not my cup of tea.

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One thing you are all missing in your critique on Derek... Neil Fawcett was the “Creative Director” at Spartan Games, and he micro-managed everything.  I know Alex Mann wanted to do a lot of things with Firestorm Armada, and generally Neil undercut him or ignored him.  For example, Alex had the initial concept for Firestorm Taskforce, which Neil handed over to someone else to develop... and only gave them two weeks to do so.

For me, I have no way to separate how much of what we saw from 3.0 was from Derek or Neil. I know I preferred the direction Alex wanted to go with the game (those ideas should be archived in this forum) instead of what Derek/Neil/Josh cooked up.

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Lets not also forget that even leaving names aside, a company will have a target and focus that will start to dictate the games and in Spartan one aspect was that each game was almost a stepping stone of the rules from one to the next. Part of this was the small team and single game primary focus Spartan often took which meant the rules got somewhat thrashed around.

I think Warcradle is going to try and keep the rules for each game their own entity and focus. this in itself should result in a much tighter system and provided that WC expands carefully we should see a better system of rules as staff working on them are able to dedicate more actual time over long periods to them rather than a fit of attention here and a fit of attention there spaced out over months/years.

 

I'd say give them a chance and lets see what we get. Right now its all just musing until we get Dystopian Wars out; although we can get some idea of the quality of rules that WC produces by looking into the WW game franchise.

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