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16 hours ago, Overread said:

I think what Richard means is that Dystopian Wars and Firestorm are very different beasts. With Dystopian Wars Warcradle made a clear move to combine two IPs into one for their release structure. That in itself brought a lot of changes to the structure and political scene of Dystopian Wars. 

 

Firestorm has no such twinning and being as the only other space games on the market are Dropzone and Starwars -  neither of which are going anywhere near administration - I doubt there would be one. That means its got far less chance of the more major changes that Dystopain Wars has experienced. Of course I expect a lot of change, but I'd wager many of the core elements will remain the same (Sorylians are Lizards - Relthoza are Spider thingies

Maybe I kneejerked - a bit -  there... Ha, ha! I definitely just read my 'worst case' interpretation of that short sentence.

Overread, you make a good point - A point Warcradle could have made eloquently, Instead of being so damn ambiguous all the time. :)  

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As frustrating it is, I can understand the secrecy. If the reason is that nothing significant will change, then it’s for protecting the IP, so it won’t get hijacked while warcradle’s focus is on DW. If there will be changes that would upset the current playerbase, the manpower needed to put the fires out would have to be taken from other teams, who should be focusing on DW’s or even FSA's release. As the dystopian world is more or less established, the fluff division by this time is already working on FSA to lay down the foundation for the world.
There are multiple sources that are dated a bit after Warcradle acquired Spartan’s licences, that are worth looking at to try to make guesses where the setting is going.

As far as I know the most official release about FSA is still this, and it states that it’s a “Huge undertaking”. If I wanted to just reshuffle the factions, I probably wouldn’t use this phrase.

An other interesting bit is an interview with @Warcradle Stuart by @Alex Mann and Oscar Mann at


The Hub Systems Episode 35 - A Warcradle Christmas


 that is dated Dec 23 2017. I’ve typed in most of the part that is related to FSA. A lot of things might have changed since that time, so please, please read this with a grain of salt in both hands!


 

Quote

...with firestorm there’s a lot more work is needed. Not because Firestorm is terrible, it’s not, i’ve talked about this before elsewhere. The background for firestorm is... it’s ok, it has... there are problems with it, and Dystopian wars had them as well, with Dystopian wars is effectively 3 big alliances [...] with [...] lots and lots and lots of factions so we looked to make that 8 big factions with comprising of less nations and so on. The... Firestorm has two [...] factions. It essentially has two grand alliances, and everybody theoretically within each alliance is kind of on the same side as each other. So [...] that already kind of takes away a lot of the [...] drama and the drive and the opportunity for having games actually count for something rather than being kind of a blue on blue “Ah the Aquans and the Terrans have decided that they have a little misunderstanding between them but [it] will be kisses and cuddles between them at the end of the day” or whatever. It’s a bit... So that needs changing, and the other thing... That’s not to say that everybody in going to hate everybody, just... let’s give agency and reason for each of [...] these factions, for each of these powers to be able to play against each other in a tabletop wargame.
The other part is that the background is... yeah, it’s ok, [...] there’s nothing [...] particularly unique and special about Firestorm. I mean, ok yeah, it’s got recognizable names, you’ve got your biothech race, and you’ve got your... but then actually when you start to look at the models... The miniatures are not bad, there’s some interesting stuff for sure, but like [...] look at sorylians. Look at sorylians. The sorylians are the lizards. Yeah? There isn’t anything about them – I mean the ships need to look like giant lizards, but there isn’t anything about the ships that [...] the narrative of the factions doesn’t tie into the ships at all. I mean [...] you could say that the Relthoza [...] if you didn’t know you could just switch the factions and switch the background of the factions and you could still use the same ships. [...] There isn’t anything inherently there that does that. When you get to planetfall, it’s different because there obviously you could then start to see more relatable miniatures and creatures and things and funnily enough all the points made about come into play again... But at the [...] space scale, the [...] vast scale that you talk about in firestorm the ships and the narrative are largely divorced from each other. You know? What I mean [...] they aren’t hugely related to each other.
So the Directorate. Why the ships look the way they do? What is it about so that they you know ... they’re to be commerce people. Cool. So why do the ships look like that? [...] Where’s the commercial thing about it? [...] In the narrative where’s the drive where it’s kind of explains that?
[Alex Mann and his son Oscar explains the Directorate wiped the Sabulons out and stole their tech]
You see that would make sense if that was a particular nation... or not nation. A particular world, so [...] let us have the humans’ve got their space travel as in there. But the directorate aren’t really one species as it were, they’re commerce, they Ferengi, they’re the grand buisinessman, that they’re the commercial evil overlord type guys. Why don’t they have just the best technology, and the best things of all the races and come up with.... So, ok, they might have murdered one group of people, why didn’t they bought the technology, and stolen and infiltrated and got all the best tech from everybody and... [...] so you’ve got people at Hawker industries and you’ve got all these other companies and corporations [...] Why is that not something, so that they are all sorts of different commercial and [...] all of that side of things all of that grand schemes and things... Why is that not something that they’re exploring? So [...] yeah, look. I get the reasoning behind that, I just don’t think that’s... particularly... [...]Yeah, I’m just not sore that’s enough, [...] I think you could do more with that. [...............] For example [...] why the directorate [is] part of the Zenian league? Why are they not [...] on everybody’s side? ‘Cause surely they could be. [.........] They could almost be kind of a middle faction. If you take this two power blocks, and you could have the Directorate leading all of the other various business and commercial and guilds and other stuff, and they could be the [...] third block as it were, because they... You know, they will ally with, they will support, they will undermine, they will protect anybody that it makes sense [...] for ther particular goals. So you know [...] they’re less bothered about [...] aspets of jingoism and nationalism or [????], they don’t care about any of that because [...] they will strip-mine planets if [they have to] because there are resources there, but also if it makes sense to protect a beautiful world because they get lots of rich people to go big game hunting on it or doing something else, they will do that. [...] The right and wrong of things doesn’t really come into it, and I think that’s interesting, that kind of thing could be explored. But, look. Rather doing like a band-aid, and yas, ok, let’s just give some more information on these, there’s the opportunity to really look up all of the nations, in fact all of the whole setting of firestorm. Is there something that we can give this [...] a vibrant exciting update, and so one of the reasons why it’s gotta take longer to get this to where it is, is we are in talks and we’re working with some sci-fi authors... you know, we’re not in position to start naming names, but we’re working with a number of potential authors who are going to work with us to really develop a new and exciting setting. Of course there’ll be things, there’ll be you know, touchstones for people, we’re not gonna be [...] just completely unrelatable, but it will be exciting and it will be [...] a new firestorm game [...] going forwards. That’s before we even [...] talked about the rules, just about the setting, that’s just really making it exciting and unique and special and identifyable. I mean how great would it be for there to be a Firestorm novel. The people that buy the Firestorm novel because they love sci-fi, and “Oh, [...] there’s a game about this as well! Ah! Cool!” You now, it’s a background, where the background is so good, or is so interesting, ihat it’s worth reading about on it’s own [...] with no connection to the game.

(damn, this took waaaaaaaaaay longer than I expected, and please forgive me for any mistakes, english is not my first language, so there are things I might have misheard, but I thought some of you guys might appreciate a written version for easier referencing)

Please listen to it if you have 10 minutes on your hand (it starts at ~01:42), as in the written version all the emphasis is lost. It’s worth it (plus there’s more after this part, even some real slight hints about the rules, and planetfall).
What I take away from this, is not to worry one bit, even if things change, it will be for the absolute best. A setting that is worth making a(?) novel(s!) about excites me to no end :)

 

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"So the Directorate. Why the ships look the way they do? What is it about so that they you know ... they’re to be commerce people. Cool. So why do the ships look like that? [...] Where’s the commercial thing about it? [...] In the narrative where’s the drive where it’s kind of explains that?
[Alex Mann and his son Oscar explains the Directorate wiped the Sabulons out and stole their tech] "

The fleet with the most clearly documented explanation for the visual design... Explained in one of ONLY 3 printed books for V2. Great research done there.

1. If warcradle had read the fluff they are so keen to dismantle they would know the Directorate DO have little bits of the best of everyone else. Shields, cloaking, Grav weapons, Cyber... And the reason they are in the zenian league is because IT WAS THEIR BLOODY IDEA.

2. These models don't look 'commercial' because the commerce the main members partake in is that of shipbuilders and arms dealers. It's like asking why Macdonnel Douglas' latest fighter doesn't look like a bloody Ford Transit...

3. Even without point 2 - These  are Warships not bloody freighters - They don't look like commerce people because they aren't They are the military arm of a spacefaring nation - albeit one made up of corporations. (If you want to play FREIGHTSTORM ARMADA then this aint the place...)

I hadn't listened to this podcast before - and now that I have I feel the 'problems' Warcradle see in the 'ok' fluff and models are often resolved by the same fluff they clearly haven't been arsed to read. And I feel more and more that a respectful - let alone faithful reboot of the franchise is looking less likely.

I would welcome any indication to the contrary. And hey, If I am proved wrong then I will get off my high horse and chow down on humble pie.

Rant over... :(

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As with DWars its about their vision.  DWars 3.0 us not a free standing Victorian sci-fi game envisioned by Spartan but an adjunct to WWX in terms of gameplay and model design.  That's what it was bought for, and the intended new market.  But to whom do they wish to sell FSA?  BFG fans?  If so I expect a more gothic style abd grimdark background.

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55 minutes ago, RuleBritannia said:

As with DWars its about their vision.  DWars 3.0 us not a free standing Victorian sci-fi game envisioned by Spartan but an adjunct to WWX in terms of gameplay and model design.  That's what it was bought for, and the intended new market.  But to whom do they wish to sell FSA?  BFG fans?  If so I expect a more gothic style abd grimdark background.

Hmm,  I'm not really keen on Gothic Space battles.  I'm far more to push for harder Scifi styles. But without taking it to a physics simulation for relativistic conflict, at least not as the focus.

8 hours ago, Spenetrator said:

"So the Directorate. Why the ships look the way they do? What is it about so that they you know ... they’re to be commerce people. Cool. So why do the ships look like that? [...] Where’s the commercial thing about it? [...] In the narrative where’s the drive where it’s kind of explains that?
[Alex Mann and his son Oscar explains the Directorate wiped the Sabulons out and stole their tech] "

The fleet with the most clearly documented explanation for the visual design... Explained in one of ONLY 3 printed books for V2. Great research done there.

1. If warcradle had read the fluff they are so keen to dismantle they would know the Directorate DO have little bits of the best of everyone else. Shields, cloaking, Grav weapons, Cyber... And the reason they are in the zenian league is because IT WAS THEIR BLOODY IDEA.

2. These models don't look 'commercial' because the commerce the main members partake in is that of shipbuilders and arms dealers. It's like asking why Macdonnel Douglas' latest fighter doesn't look like a bloody Ford Transit...

3. Even without point 2 - These  are Warships not bloody freighters - They don't look like commerce people because they aren't They are the military arm of a spacefaring nation - albeit one made up of corporations. (If you want to play FREIGHTSTORM ARMADA then this aint the place...)

I hadn't listened to this podcast before - and now that I have I feel the 'problems' Warcradle see in the 'ok' fluff and models are often resolved by the same fluff they clearly haven't been arsed to read. And I feel more and more that a respectful - let alone faithful reboot of the franchise is looking less likely.

I would welcome any indication to the contrary. And hey, If I am proved wrong then I will get off my high horse and chow down on humble pie.

Rant over... :(

We disagree with you. Of course, we have all read the fluff. But that doesn't mean we have to respect it, keep it or not rewrite it.

Edited by Warcradle Richard

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Myself I hope that what WC captures is the feel of the factions. 

 

With a different author its no surprise that things will shift and change and its clear that WC is going to change the political scene and likely focus on having the factions standing more alone than united into two (grand alliance) megablocks opposing each other. What I hope is that they retain the feel, theme and style of each faction and build upon it. That Relthoza remain the cloaked shadowy spiders lurking in their ships built with vast open areas within. A deadly force to strike without warning and slip away again after. To retain the mighty Sorylian lizards who tower over men; built in strong bodies with powerful machines and a lot of vast broadsides of cannon that they will rush up and turn their sides to unleash in devastating barrages of fire. 

The politics might change; the reasons for war and the alliances and even some of the minor factions might vanish or never reappear or might appear in different ways. But I'd hope that WC retains the feel and theme; the style and the atmosphere of the game. And I'd wager that WC didn't just buy FA because it was cheap on the market and because it was floundering - there has to be love of the game and its lore and its themes within the WC company, otherwise they could have made their very own Space Game without any Spartan Games ties to it.

 

Indeed I'd wager if WC want to build on the lore and make it stronger and actually formally publish more of the lore into paper format to put into the hands of gamers then it is a good thing to let their own writers and creative people be a bit more free with the lore and setting. SG didn't build the FA world to be expanded upon by other writers, they haven't got book after book of detailed lore and facts and such that can be used as a creative backbone to put meat on a story. It's just not there like one might get if you were to write, say, a Dungeons and Dragons book set in the Sword Coast. With small information there would be changes, but there would also be a stagnation of creativity as it would be shackled to ideas and concepts that were never fully realised before.

 

 

 

Like I said I don't mind and I expect change, but at the same time I hope for a feel and structure of factions to be the solid foundation upon which those changes are based. 

PS I'm not saying SG did badly, they just didn't publish a huge library of lore in the same way as some other franchises have. 

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On 9/15/2018 at 8:11 AM, Warcradle Richard said:

We disagree with you. Of course, we have all read the fluff. But that doesn't mean we have to respect it, keep it or not rewrite it.

You'll forgive me if the contents of that podcast seem to directly undermine that assertion.

To be fair there was a fair bit to disagree with in my post - did you disagree with everything, or just the general assertion that you hadn't done the research?

Hey, I know you are going to change things - and hopefully some of it will be for the best - I don't think think there's many here who would want you to leave the rules untouched... 

 

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One aspect is that many of these details just might not be ironed out yet - the focus is clearly on Dystopain Wars at present so much of the FA stuff could still  be a bit up in the air as to what is going to happen. So it can be hard to give firm answers because there's no firm reply other than a lot of possibilities. 

 

Another aspect to consider is not to forget that information is interpreted different ways by different people; and when information is short or summarised the interpretation and extrapolation of that information might vary quite significantly between people. Eg the Directorate might well have inherited a lot of tech from another faction which then dictate their ship design.

One person might interpret that as fine and fill in all the blanks themselves; another person might then ask "but why are their ships shaped like they are as it doesn't follow their other faction properties." Ergo whilst the second person can certainly imagine answers, they'd rather have firm answers to those questions rather than guesswork (and the more players have to make up their own lore to fill in the blanks the bigger any divide on impressions can be).

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As Richard has said, we are still looking at developing the setting. Firestorm Third Edition will be a new game (with rules that are an evolution from the second edition) and new background (that will include many of the existing concepts for factions etc). At this stage, it is not anticipated that it will be a continuation of the second edition in terms of background. That said I'm not involved with the team developing Firestorm, at the moment, so can't say with an absolute authority on what it will or won't be. 

On the subject of the Directorate, bear in mind that it is a tabletop miniatures game.  The miniatures should clearly communicate the archetype and stylings of the faction they represent. The background is there to serve the game, not the other way around, after all.  To  my mind, if you have a corporate/commercial faction then their vessels should communicate that aspect of them. Large cargo bays, use of mercenaries or something else that makes their background directly inform the miniature design. 

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20 hours ago, Wolfgang Jannesen said:

@Spenetrator Just me but I think you're digging into little details like they spell out your own little death sentence. Its clear you might be a directorate player and the interviewee definitely not one.

Yeah, I'm trying really hard not to sound like a furious old Grognard, But I'm 100% sure I'm failing, haha.

I'm not a Directorate player though (My Terquai's Favourite pastime is vapourising Directorate!) - Just someone who read the Fleet Manuals a while ago. and is (Maybe a bit too) passionate about the game. :)

21 hours ago, Overread said:

One aspect is that many of these details just might not be ironed out yet - the focus is clearly on Dystopain Wars at present so much of the FA stuff could still  be a bit up in the air as to what is going to happen. So it can be hard to give firm answers because there's no firm reply other than a lot of possibilities. 

This is true. And if WC were to say that, then that puts the matter to bed - doesn't it. Their Ambiguous messages on here are a bit counterproductive sometimes. (Especially when there's utter nutjars on here ready to pounce on any tidbit and proclaim them as the footseps of doom - ahem... :P )

As I've said before, I don't mind changes to the alliances - though I think they are unnecessary I can see the value, and that other people seem to be won over! I don't mind changes to the rule system - or the ship designs being thrown out and started from scratch... What I really object to are arbitrary changes - and changes that either just don't make sense or feel like dumbing things down. 

Ultimately - WC could just as easily have bought FA just so that they could make a SF warship game of their own without a rebooted FA as a potential competitor. If that was the case - that would be their right too.

As Warcradle Richard said: 'that doesn't mean we have to respect it, keep it or not rewrite it'

I hope TPTB don't take too much offense at my occasional venting. - For the most part it is intended to be constructive, even if it sometimes comes off a little 'sharp'. 

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I think its also that WC doesn't want to do what SG did which is to actually promise stuff before its ready - which is a good thing. Last thing they want to do is promise stuff and then find that it changes significantly for a myriad of reasons. We might still be a year away or more from FA returning to the market (I hope sooner but I'm wagering on a year from the launch of Dystopian Wars). 

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10 minutes ago, RuleBritannia said:

Would be nice to get a middle ground where some hype is built with say a monthly blog post of this is some cool stuff we are working on explaining its experimental and maybe a start of debate and discussion.

Agreed, but at the same time I don't want to return to the old SG era of blog posts that go nowhere. Right now most of WC's marketing is very similar to GW in that what we see is stuff coming very soon with little hinting at the long term. I would think part of this is because WC is still setting itself up so everything is new and can throw up unforseen twists and turns. I'd wager once they've got one or two games out we might see longer forecasting of releases once they've got a stronger handle on their end and the player end too. 

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2 minutes ago, Overread said:

Agreed, but at the same time I don't want to return to the old SG era of blog posts that go nowhere. Right now most of WC's marketing is very similar to GW in that what we see is stuff coming very soon with little hinting at the long term. I would think part of this is because WC is still setting itself up so everything is new and can throw up unforseen twists and turns. I'd wager once they've got one or two games out we might see longer forecasting of releases once they've got a stronger handle on their end and the player end too. 

I think there are some things like the new DWars models that have been shown at a distance but not explained in universe that would build excitement and are coming shortly.  That could provide a model, as well as early feedback.  Similarly the beta and decisions made.

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