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Overread

The fate of mobile airfields and other big things

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So with the scale change in Armoured Clash its clear that some of the bigger models start to somewhat fall apart when they try to fit into the new game. The mobile airfields go from being big enough to launch whole squadrons to perhaps having room for two or three aircraft. Other large units like the walking fortress type units might survive in some form, but I've still a feeling that many that easily crossed from land to sea are going to get stuck in rather odd ground between the two games. 

 

Personally I'd welcome if things like giant walkers and mobile airfields remained part of Dystopian Sea Wars. Acting as units which can support sea activities near land, yet retaining their huge size and mobility over land. Of course retaining any element of land (outside of buildings/sea defence cannon) is going to seem odd when the land game is then fully split in terms of scale from Dystopian Wars at Sea. But it at least lets those huge units retain their original impressive and powerful status without being downscaled to odd sizes to fit a newly scaled land game. 

I feel that trying to rescale them into the new ground game is just going to look strange as they'll be big units, but rather oddly placed. 

 

Air hasn't got an issue as its clear that the air units will shift over to Dystopian Wars Sea pretty much fully with the ground game getting their own slew of air units to fit.  

But things like crawling airfields; walking castles and even things like dreadnought land-ships (eg the huge russian beast). These are, honestly, where I see the biggest point of confusion, contention and issue with the scale change in the land game. 

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While I like the idea of going to a 10 mm scale (I like the Axis and Allies miniatures in 10 mm scale), almost all of the existing miniatures I have are going to look wrong.  The body of the Antarctica walker tokens is only 3 mm so these could only become small walker drones.  The gun barrels on the land ships look to average about 5 mm (about 1 m in scale) making them more the size of a rifle barrel instead of a tank barrel.  The medium tanks would be cramped for 1 person and nearly impossible for for tank crew.  It seems a better scale would be 5 mm but that makes individual soldiers too small.  I am stuck for a good solution. 

I could see making all the small tokens and small tanks drones, which seems too advanced for 1800's, and medium and large tanks are kind of okay, but land ships and mobile airfields just no longer seem like they can work.  Compare these in size to a 10 mm scale Stug or Cromwell  and they just look wrong.

I only have two mobile airfields (FSA and CoA) but neither seems possible to exist in a 10 mm scale. 

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Aye I can see why they want to make the land and sea separate as balancing land to deal with battleships is always an odd thing; and it likely works well for adding in more of the WildWest units without having them fully outclassed or having to add titanic units of their own to compete; but it does leave a lot of the larger war units feeling in a very odd position

In a way I don't want to see the loss of mobile land airfields and giant walking mechs and the like; yet I can't see how they can viably be kept in the land game. I also worry that the aim to resculpt whilst keeping them within the game with a few detail changes is going to result in some very odd looking units. Granted thus far we've seen only one or two tank units which looked good in the resize; but overall I think of all the things Warcradle is proposing to doing its the one that is the most, if not questionable, then debatable. 

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The render for mediums so far seems they the remain the same physical size but rendered with bigger doors making older models count as but will look awkward. Overall seems a brave decision, but seems based on a limited take up of land, that less people will be affected.  I would like to know if landships will be usuable still.  

I would prefer, I am brutually honest, a new game like Empires with new models in its own scale doing its own thing, full of the WWX buggies they want for the more skirmishy Dystopian age setting and alternate rules set based on DWars for a massed game sometime in the future or else allow a fan conversion.

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I'm hoping they make some "conversion kits" (hatches, drop-overs, etc) for the models affected by the changes in scale.

The current mobile airfields will only really need either an upsized plane, or something like a gyrocopter or squad of jetpack troops, to put over the top of the planes. All of the 2-per-base tanks really only need some add-on troops to turn them into things like machine guns, mortars, bikes, etc. (The robots would work as power-armoured/enhanced troops)

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2 hours ago, fracas said:

10 mm scale infantry will dwarf 3mm scale tanks even if you consider them tankettes 

From what I understand, the DW-scale medium tanks will become small models, and the larger models will become medium. The warcradle sculpts will have 10mm-scale hatches and ladders.

The DW-scale small tanks are roughly the same size as 10mm-scale fieldguns/etc

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15 hours ago, Overread said:

So with the scale change in Armoured Clash its clear that some of the bigger models start to somewhat fall apart when they try to fit into the new game. The mobile airfields go from being big enough to launch whole squadrons to perhaps having room for two or three aircraft. 

The idea with mobile airfields is that rather than launching fighter aircraft, they will instead launch gyrocopters, winged infantry, jet troops, aerial drones and other science madness to dominate the skies. Same function in game terms, but different scale. 

Of course there will still be fighters, bombers, blimps etc but these will have launched from airbases, carriers or other ‘off table’ positions. 

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So it basically is the same except all the models we have now have too small doors and we can no longer use our air models and floaty skimmer boats in the same game?  I mean you aren't desperately selling the merits of the size change here as immensely necessary here right now apart from aesthetic choice that Infantry units look better as little men rather blocks and terrain is a bit easier to source.   I hope you can instead reassure us with a different reason.

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On 2/14/2018 at 12:18 AM, Nazduruk_Bugzappa said:

The current mobile airfields will only really need either an upsized plane, or something like a gyrocopter or squad of jetpack troops, to put over the top of the planes. All of the 2-per-base tanks really only need some add-on troops to turn them into things like machine guns, mortars, bikes, etc. (The robots would work as power-armoured/enhanced troops)

1

Exactly this. All good ideas.  With some of them (particularly models like the Seydlitz) want to retain the styling of the original miniature but add new details and elements to make them a part of Armoured Clash.

Edited by Warcradle Stuart
Expanded on point

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Thing is that's either going to mean every faction has access to tiny robotics or players are going to have to start scrubbing aircraft off the flight decks of their airstrips to replace them with new decorative models. It's a neat idea, but I wonder at the logistics and viability of an upgrade kit - I also worry that it is invalidating original models and meaning that gamers have to cannibalise the models in order to make them work in the new game. 

 

I'm certainly not opposed to rocket troopers and all those fancy themes, those are great ideas. It's just that I can see this plan backfiring with the existing fanbase. It's one thing to merge factions and change some visual designs of the models; one is purely practical and the other is something we'd seen happening even with Spartan Games (models evolving and designs changing along the same asthetic designs is something most gamers consider normal). But the scale change is seeming to not just change the scale ,but the design and indeed you could even say the appeal of the game. 

I'm not saying that the concept is bad, just that the joint effort to  try and deliver this idea whilst keeping old models valid is going to result in very strange design appearances on the table. 

 

 

The more I think of it the more I'd say it might be better to actually totally abandon the original models and to let the new scale change be design free to make itself its own game. That allows it to shed the shackles of former models that, really, won't fit well into the game design. It also leaves the gates sort of open for, if in the future, returning to the original scale as an add-on to the sea game if/when Dystopian proves super popular; or just leaving that area as a dead game. 

I'd rather think that a dead game might be better than one which takes very odd design choices (and thus risks the chance of not cornering a proper identity and appeal of its own); and which might have not just a cool, but a very cold reception by existing fans of the franchise. 

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It won't be an upgrade kit, rather there will be similar models (reworked for the new scale) that will fill the same function as a mobile airfield in games of Armoured Clash but the units they launch will be of a smaller size (rocket troops, gyros etc). 

Players can use their Mobile airfield models as a 'counts as' for Armoured Clash, but there will, of course, be new models.  

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I still intend to get the new models as they come out. For the majority of my collection, I'll be reorganising the squadrons to make the warcradle versions into "squad leaders" (or the other way around, depending on what I currently own). I just think it would be a good idea (even if it's a few months after the warcradle models are released) to have components for those people who aren't so good at sculpting/conversion work available, so they can get their current collection to look like they're the correct scale.

I'm prepared for some of my collection (such as my 6 DW-scale trains) to be redundant, and I can deal with it. I'm an Ork player for 40k (since 1996) and repurposing things has become second nature to me.

Something I would suggest for the "new" model is having additional options in its kit, that could easily be attached to the older model (eg make it so the "new" mobile airfields have empty flight decks, and have the jump troops, gyrocopters, etc  as separate elements). This means that the new model will still get bought, and veteran players can get something to unify their collections.

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