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Jsiegel1983

Carriers and TFTs in 3rd Edition

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15 minutes ago, Warcradle Stuart said:

The bomber on the flight deck of the Ice Maiden is a Prussian bomber. There will be Prussian bombers and fighters in Armoured Clash that will look like these. There will be larger air units in Dystopian Wars too (not just Sky Fortresses!) 

 

So will there be bombers in DWars like the heavy bombers released?  Or will bombers only be tokens/AC?

Edited by RuleBritannia
Misapprehension

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1 hour ago, Warcradle Stuart said:

The bomber on the flight deck represents a carrier mounted bomber  (not that third edition will require a modelled distinction between fighters and bombers as tokens). Like all the aircraft on carrier decks, they are there for aesthetics rather than a specific indication of units. The bomber you see on the flight deck is too small to be used in a game as a unit in its own right. Perhaps we might create TFT's with them on for players who want to visually indicate which TFTs are bombers and which are fighters but Third Edition doesn't require it as a TFTs type is defined by what the player has them doing each turn rather than what they are modelled or painted as. 

 

Thanks for the clarification.  Don't know if you have an answer for this but I will ask anyways.  Are the tiny fliers still going to be fighters, torpedoes bombers and dive bombers or is that going to change?

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On 09/02/2018 at 2:58 PM, Jsiegel1983 said:

Thanks for the clarification.  Don't know if you have an answer for this but I will ask anyways.  Are the tiny fliers still going to be fighters, torpedoes bombers and dive bombers or is that going to change?

TFTs are defined by how you use them. So if a TFT is being used this turn to attack a submarine, it represents torpedo bombers (or some other esotericly weird anti sub warfare technology). 

If TFTs are by friendly ships, they are fighters giving aircover etc. 

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Stuart are you saying that each TFT can operate how the player wants and change its role without having to land and launch as a different configuration or that you can launch whichever configuration you wish to use.

 

Ergo a single token would be a bomber OR a torpedo OR a fighter until it lands and is rearmed. Or are they all three in one (combined weapons) which are then chosen for use each turn (ergo it can attack with its torpedo or its anti-air guns but not both)

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9 hours ago, Overread said:

Stuart are you saying that each TFT can operate how the player wants and change its role without having to land and launch as a different configuration or that you can launch whichever configuration you wish to use.

 

Ergo a single token would be a bomber OR a torpedo OR a fighter until it lands and is rearmed. Or are they all three in one (combined weapons) which are then chosen for use each turn (ergo it can attack with its torpedo or its anti-air guns but not both)

Exact details will be revealed in the Open Beta, but effectively TFTs are a specific role until they land on the carrier and then are removed from the table. That same token can be reused in the next turn to represent a different type of aircraft. While on the table, the token has one specific role. 

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Interesting.  It does fix the activation spam problem with carriers.  From what you have said it does sound a bit like the fleet action rules.   Do you know if different types of carriers will have varying amounts of TFTs?  Meaning fleet carriers, assault carriers and light carriers.  It may be a bit early but do you know about when open beta is supposed to start?

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2 minutes ago, Jsiegel1983 said:

Interesting.  It does fix the activation spam problem with carriers.  From what you have said it does sound a bit like the fleet action rules.   Do you know if different types of carriers will have varying amounts of TFTs?  Meaning fleet carriers, assault carriers and light carriers.  It may be a bit early but do you know about when open beta is supposed to start?

Each carrier will have a specific squadron capacity so that there are distinction and value to each class. We hope for the Open Beta to start before the Summer, but we are a fair way from a formal announcement.  

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2 minutes ago, Warcradle Stuart said:

Each carrier will have a specific squadron capacity so that there are distinction and value to each class. We hope for the Open Beta to start before the Summer, but we are a fair way from a formal announcement.  

Thanks.  I figured open beta was a way off but I am impatient so I asked.  Good to hear that there will be a difference between the types of carriers.  Do you know if local air support will still be a thing?  Sorry if I am asking too many questions.  I don't know how far along they are in writing the rules or what you are allowed to share.

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1 minute ago, Jsiegel1983 said:

Thanks.  I figured open beta was a way off but I am impatient so I asked.  Good to hear that there will be a difference between the types of carriers.  Do you know if local air support will still be a thing?  Sorry if I am asking too many questions.  I don't know how far along they are in writing the rules or what you are allowed to share.

No local air support (though possibly a narrative scenario could supply it as part of a campaign).  

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4 hours ago, Warcradle Stuart said:

Each carrier will have a specific squadron capacity so that there are distinction and value to each class. We hope for the Open Beta to start before the Summer, but we are a fair way from a formal announcement.  

Seems like you have taken  inspirations from the discussion in this thread. Which I like a lot.

 

By the way,  having a wing of TFT land increase capacity, is an elegant way of handling things. Then they can use that extra points to launch whatever they want. No need to have 'rearm, retask' actions any more.

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So Tiny Flyers are going back to mostly v1.1 rules, requiring them to land on carriers for a turn then relaunched? 

Not only that, they are getting the Firestorm Armada treatment in that they do not act independently? 

 

Both of these I can take it or leave it. Though for the latter, while i think its a bit daft, I hope you don't go whole hog with the Firestorm rules, in that they can only ever be within so many inches of the carrier at all times, unless they go on an attack run. That would be horrible.

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8 minutes ago, Merlin said:

So Tiny Flyers are going back to mostly v1.1 rules, requiring them to land on carriers for a turn then relaunched? 

Not only that, they are getting the Firestorm Armada treatment in that they do not act independently? 

 

Both of these I can take it or leave it. Though for the latter, while i think its a bit daft, I hope you don't go whole hog with the Firestorm rules, in that they can only ever be within so many inches of the carrier at all times, unless they go on an attack run. That would be horrible.

Note, that in 1.1 they landed one turn, and launched the next. There is nothing stopping you from launching them the same turn they land.

 

I think the rules scetched make tons of sense, makes things very easy and flexible.  Now you only need two rules, *land* and *launch*.

Launch: launch one wing per launch point use, and it cost 1 capacity point per wing launched.

Then there are several options on how they are launched, especially how they are activated launch and how far from the carrier they are. This depends on the carrier.

 

Landing simply increase capacity points you have, up to the maxium of starting capacity.

There are also several options on how landing can be done...

1) By activating a wing, OR by activating a carrier within n'' of a wing.

2) How many capacity points do a carrier recover when a wing lands. Several options... Could depend on which type of carrier...

-Recover capacity points up to the original size of the wing

-Revoer capactiy points up to the number of surviving TST in a wing

-Recover capacity points up to the number of surviving TST plus half of the number of lost. (1 surving out of 5 would then lead to increase in capacity by 3)

 

Lets take an example. 6 launch points, 9 capacity points, and this carrier has a Mar which allows any wing launched to be activated in the same action as the carrier.

1 turn. You decide to launch two sets of 3. (instead of 1x5). You then have spent 6 capacity points and have  3 left.

You decide to wait to launch your last 3 before the right opportunity...

Later turn: one TST of one wing you send out manage to land on the carrier, which increases (going with 3 landing option) increases capacity by 2, increasing it from 3 to 5.

Then, same turn, you launch a wing of 5, activate it and cursh your enemy with amazing dive bombers.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Merlin said:

So Tiny Flyers are going back to mostly v1.1 rules, requiring them to land on carriers for a turn then relaunched? 

Not only that, they are getting the Firestorm Armada treatment in that they do not act independently? 

No, they are removed from the table once their action (defence, bombing run or whatever) is resolved (the game assumes that they return to their parent carrier once they have conducted their mission for the turn ).  Each turn a carrier can despatch squadrons on a variety of missions (the larger the carrier, the wider range of missions available).  

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...so they'll be like the CoA's drones were before the "feedback" rule was introduced.

Looks like a good idea. The only amendment I would give for it would be to have the option for certain models to  have "CAP" assigned (out of the available planes) during initial deployment, giving a defensive AA "upgrade" to their parent vessel, and having it so they don't get removed when used (but are permanently removed with the parent model being lost).

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2 hours ago, Warcradle Stuart said:

No, they are removed from the table once their action (defence, bombing run or whatever) is resolved (the game assumes that they return to their parent carrier once they have conducted their mission for the turn ).  Each turn a carrier can despatch squadrons on a variety of missions (the larger the carrier, the wider range of missions available).  

So this is very similar to the fleet action rules where the fliers were treated like firing a weapon.  The number of "shots" depends on the carrier.  Then you choose how to use them.  As a fighter or bomber which determined what rules it had and what it was effective against.  I think it has its pros and cons.  Depending on the range it can make it very difficult to keep a carrier alive long enough to get much use out of it.   It also can make destroying the carrier the only way to counter a carrier.    Need to see the full rules to get a better understanding on how to use them.

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To be honest, the only way to stop them will be to kill the carrier, or just put hurt on it. It's not like they are powerhouses who can take a hit like a dreadnought (except the Russian carriers. Ablative Armour makes it so).

 

Not sure I like the way the tiny flyers will just be removed after an attack run. Doesn't feel realistic for the scale. And more importantly, it feels too Firestorm Armada for me...and that is a really boring game to play.

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10 hours ago, Warcradle Stuart said:

No, they are removed from the table once their action (defence, bombing run or whatever) is resolved (the game assumes that they return to their parent carrier once they have conducted their mission for the turn ).  Each turn a carrier can despatch squadrons on a variety of missions (the larger the carrier, the wider range of missions available).  

I think that a TFT should need to be within 4'' of a carrier to land. Just because it makes it easier to counter dive-bombers with fighters that way. And the thing I want to reintroduce though, is that KILLED TFT do NOT return to the carrier, and thus cannot be used for missions later.

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18 minutes ago, Grand-Stone said:

I think that a TFT should need to be within 4'' of a carrier to land. Just because it makes it easier to counter dive-bombers with fighters that way. And the thing I want to reintroduce though, is that KILLED TFT do NOT return to the carrier, and thus cannot be used for missions later.

Well, killed tiny flyers don't return to the carrier. They are dead. The carrier was always launching a brand new squadron from its many reserves of planes they have. Which is realistic. 

 

V2.5 could possibly have had a max number of TFT they could relaunch a game, instead of the always available carrier points the game already had. 

 

So, for example, if the Elbe was used, it could have had a max TFT capacity of 20 tokens, (60 planes per ship due to its size).

So the carrier can do any action it likes (replenish, rearm or relaunch) but to do the replenish or relaunch digs into its limited supply.

 

That's what it should have been in my opinion.

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