Firestorm fluff

[fracas 349]

It is simplistic to think ww2 originated as revenge. And revenge as a driver for the victor to start another war? Laughable.

 

seriously folks, we all know our history better than sound bites from the History Channel.

[fracas 349]

Using emotional appeal to get a population to support a war isn’t the same as going to war for revenge.

 

[David 23]

14 minutes ago, fracas said:

It is simplistic to think ww2 originated as revenge. And revenge as a driver for the victor to start another war? Laughable.

I think the point that was trying to be made was less that the Dindrenzi were necessarily actually starting another war because they wanted revenge, and more that they were perhaps claiming revenge as a means to win the support of their own noncombatant populations.
Now, idk what they would hold for actual motivation, but perhaps they look to not just separate from Terra, but turn the tables completely and come out the new singular human race?

As for planetary differences and aquans, I don't know but I am just saying, water itself is a resource right? Perhaps some other race wants to ravage an aquan planet for the water necessary to terraform one of their own more wasted worlds into something more livable? Or perhaps some buggy aliens favorite food is aquatic, and they want to take a whole planet over to start it teeming with the stuff like a never ending soup bowl of plenty. And that is not to mention any sort of sand, coral, pearl type, or other type underwater resources that could be used for whatever technological or other reasons.

[Ryjak 1,004]

5 hours ago, Charistoph said:

 However, star systems carry more than just the planets with comfortable environments, they often carry asteroid fields, gas giants, and some resource-rich moons.  It is those resources that need to be secured from enemy hands which can often lead to conflict in systems which are not completely compatible with your own systems.

I’d suspect neither the space lizards or space fish initially considers each other an “enemy” competing for resources, nor would they choose violence as their first solution to a dispute over these resources.

This conflict source being unexplained in Firestorm would be acceptable if it were set in this first era, but with the Kurak Alliance being formed to counter the Zenian League... I just can’t seem them becoming allies without the source of this initial conflict being understood, if not resolved.

Hmm... what if Warcradle set the clock back on the setting to sometime before “now”?

[Overread 496]

Most wars have multiple causes and reasoning behind them depending on the point of view.

Different social levels within a society might well view a war from different angles; the peasants might view it duty; the religious as a holy war; the empowered as a bid for land; merchants as a means to shift large stocks of weapons or open up new trade routes; etc... So even in the instance of war breaking out there are loads of different viewpoints on what caused the war and why they are going to war.

 

When you look at things historically it gets even more complex because whilst there is often a trigger event or series of close connected events that sparks off a war; those events themselves are often the result of prior influences. Indeed a war might well have "started" generations ago when the chain of events starts that concludes in continued hostilities. 

Thus sometimes the simple statement "what started the war" can actually end up being quite a long discussion, esp when people have varied levels of history studies and thus are ignorant of other angles or situations. Even what country we come from affects out understanding of wars and the viewpoints 

 

 

In war games we often see the soldiers or the generals or the ruling powers point of view in the war as that is our connection with the game itself. Games also tend to make it simpler to start with, deeper causes of the war often coming out only when the game does really well enough to pad out its own history fluff. 

[RuleBritannia 180]

Advice from a DWars classic fluff, don't get attached....  Our overlords are likely to go for multipolar conflict and got in a fluff writer so our input is unlikely to be required nor solicited.  I would either work out a guide to how it was, to use it for your games at home or set up a previous vision of the universe, better than get too attached when it is obviously not what the kids want these days.  If you are lucky the faction names will survive.

[Pok 2,710]

Quote

better than get too attached when it is obviously not what the kids want these days.

To be honest, in FA's case this sentence is actually unironic. It's clear FA background failed to gain traction among "kids" even before Old Company's release politics killed the game completely.

[Charistoph 121]

8 hours ago, fracas said:

It is simplistic to think ww2 originated as revenge. And revenge as a driver for the victor to start another war? Laughable.

 

seriously folks, we all know our history better than sound bites from the History Channel.

Most actual causes of war are laughable. 

You may have missed it, but I did point out that Hitler's reasons were different from the German populace.  Hitler just used it as an excuse to gain support for what his actual intentions were.  Heck, most of the serving military was doing it out of nationalistic pride as much as revenge.

I wouldn't (and wasn't) say revenge is the sole reason a war was started, but having a reason for revenge does make it harder to stop a war from happening in the first place.  The stronger the desire for revenge, the more flimsy excuse one needs to engage in war.

[fracas 349]

Hard to buy revenge as a motive when you’ve won the last war. 

The simpler the motive, the less believable the fluff.

[Charistoph 121]

1 hour ago, fracas said:

Hard to buy revenge as a motive when you’ve won the last war. 

The simpler the motive, the less believable the fluff.

And if the last war only was ended to give yourself time to rebuild? 

[fracas 349]

For the Terrans to take back lost territory?

sure!

[Wolfgang Jannesen 162]

There does need to be a direct benefit to a war, an interstellar battle is a hefty amount of capital to spend on an engagement. I'd like to take back on of my previous remarks, the Directorate are very much like the Third Reich in terms of militant action, a lot less in terms of ideaology. Its like a conglomerate of bond villains

[Baphod_Zeeblebrox 1]

16 hours ago, Wolfgang Jannesen said:

There does need to be a direct benefit to a war, an interstellar battle is a hefty amount of capital to spend on an engagement. I'd like to take back on of my previous remarks, the Directorate are very much like the Third Reich in terms of militant action, a lot less in terms of ideaology. Its like a conglomerate of bond villains

I'd never thought of them like that before.

 

I love it. Intergalactic SPECTRE. Now it makes sense.

[Baphod_Zeeblebrox 1]

On 1/29/2018 at 11:57 AM, RuleBritannia said:

Advice from a DWars classic fluff, don't get attached....  Our overlords are likely to go for multipolar conflict and got in a fluff writer so our input is unlikely to be required nor solicited.  I would either work out a guide to how it was, to use it for your games at home or set up a previous vision of the universe, better than get too attached when it is obviously not what the kids want these days.  If you are lucky the faction names will survive.

Isn't that the very nature of fluff, though? It should be dynamic, and where things don't appear to make sense there should be scope for them to be re-written. Sure, it might cause a bit of upset in the short term, but longer-term, if it leads to a more interesting, balanced, rich universe, then that's all to the good, isn't it?

[Pok 2,710]

57 minutes ago, Baphod_Zeeblebrox said:

Isn't that the very nature of fluff, though? It should be dynamic, and where things don't appear to make sense there should be scope for them to be re-written. Sure, it might cause a bit of upset in the short term, but longer-term, if it leads to a more interesting, balanced, rich universe, then that's all to the good, isn't it?

I can see why they''d be upset, suddenly making China, Japan and Korea best buddies and mixing japanese and chinese ships in some unholy blender. Not to mention making Covenant evil scientists instead of angry secret UN.

[Warcradle Stuart 140]

52 minutes ago, Pok said:

I can see why they''d be upset, suddenly making China, Japan and Korea best buddies and mixing japanese and chinese ships in some unholy blender. Not to mention making Covenant evil scientists instead of angry secret UN.

The Dystopian Age is a different narrative to second edition Dystopian Wars. So it's only sudden from our perspective. As for the ships, that was a concept model, the final Chinese ship is very... Chinese. And the Japanese ones will have their own identity too. 

[RuleBritannia 180]

Why spend so much time getting animated discussing how fluff should function when it is about to rewritten, and our input is not needed as WC doesn't do 'games design by committee'?

[Wolfgang Jannesen 162]

Because we're passionate about this game and lore discussion is an example of a discussion that passionate fans would like to be a part of? Less futility posting, more lore discussion. 

[Overread 496]

And because every so often our chatter lures out someone from Warcradle to dangle tidbits before us

 

 

Although in truth its more that we are chatting about something - keen fans guessing and wondering what might happen. Because chances are we won't hear much concrete big info for a few more months yet; and certainly no big build-up until one or two months before Warcradle are going to relaunch (unless they do any more limited print runs and such). 

 

 

[Wolfgang Jannesen 162]

This thread also highlights a lot of what we're looking for in the Lore. It sounds like a lot of the playerbase want more information on the individual interactions between races and the reasons for wars and minor engagements being elaborated upon. We're interested in more concrete reasons to wind up in different parts of the Storm Zone, and a more detailed look at what survival is like in different colonies. When Warcradle turns their keen eyes on Firestorm Lore, whatever writing they keep from Spartan will be the base they'll answer these questions off of. 

[Baphod_Zeeblebrox 1]

14 hours ago, Wolfgang Jannesen said:

Because we're passionate about this game and lore discussion is an example of a discussion that passionate fans would like to be a part of? Less futility posting, more lore discussion. 

Exactly...and because it's fun. Even if we had a Black Library of content, everyone has their own head-canon, their own fan theories and their own stories that they've made up to further enrich their own perception of the universe. That's what fans do.

 

As far as lore and fluff goes, I enjoy the massive over-arching stuff explaining why we fight, but I also love descriptions of famous campaigns, battles, or even just fleeting moments in the (short) life of a gunner officer, interstella marine or frigate captain - those little microcosms in a bigger conflict reminding us that every decision is coming off the back of human (or alien) personalities, each with their own experiences, successes and failings. That adds a lot more weight to it for me. So, for example, whilst it'd be cool to get a bit more of a historical description of the Terran's obliteration of Dramos, what I'd really enjoy reading is a personal account of some grim-faced Dindrenzi scrambling to get off his (or her) planet amongst millions of their fellow citizens, and how they feel while watching their planet burn. That would start a potentially awesome story-arc of their rise through the ranks of the RSN or the Dindrenzi Navy, hell-bent on a quest for their own, personal, revenge.

[Baphod_Zeeblebrox 1]

19 hours ago, Pok said:

I can see why they''d be upset, suddenly making China, Japan and Korea best buddies and mixing japanese and chinese ships in some unholy blender. Not to mention making Covenant evil scientists instead of angry secret UN.

I don't disagree with you, Pok - I can certainly see why it would annoy people. But when retcons happen, we can either protest angrily or throw ourselves forward into the new stuff. Either way, it's not going to change what Warcradle (which abbreviates to WC, oh dear, only just noticed that) do with the franchise, but it is going to change our own personal enjoyment of it.

 

Just my 2 cents, anyway - if folk want to be angry about it, that is totally fine and justifiable, too. I've always been more of a "go with the flow and see what happens" kinda guy.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Baphod_Zeeblebrox
Change, not chance. My bad.

[Overread 496]

Honestly I suspect that the eastern adjust will be more accepted once some models and sculpts appear.

[Spenetrator 40]

The Dindrenzi have another fluff based reason for war - Without completely ignoring the desire for revenge (Which is always popular with the plebs )

They had their Howeworld nuked  Glassed from orbit. At least part of their Fluff based mantra is a pre-emptive strike on the Terran's Ability to do that again. In many ways it is what we see all over the world now, though rarely with two equally matched 'empires' Israel's destruction of Iran's nuclear capabilities, Japan bombing Pearl Harbour etc. Strategically it's all the reason you could ever need. With the added incentive that in the RW the examples were truly preemptive - The 'Drenzi' have actually had it happen to them.  

[RuleBritannia 180]

3 hours ago, Overread said:

Honestly I suspect that the eastern adjust will be more accepted once some models and sculpts appear.

The one render so far was a bit of an interesting blend, but as mentioned on another thread there seems to be a  confusion on how blend there will be considering that WC have simultaneously called for streamlined ranges whilst saying each old subfactions will continue to be distinctive and have different TFTs and models.  This is particularly problematic with the Asian faction that's supposed to have worked together for the last thousand years, yet each nation is building different ships, and they are adding an entirely new Korean Subfaction.  Seems a lot of different things going on at once that don't seem simple to reconcile.  For FSA fluff this means a likely survival in mentions of the subfactiosns and promises of their distinctive survival, but the universe itself entirely rendered down and rebuilt.