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Firestorm fluff

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Jan I figure its more that Spartan died partly because they put too much variety into their games-  ergo they grew their franchises too fast for their own production system. This resulted in reduced support for each game and also increased cost for supporting the game from local retailers as well as increased production pressure.

 

In short what people are talking about now is our expectations for the likely next few years. If you have a look in one of the other key threads it seems that Warcradle is having to fully build their own factory, buy new machine and equipment to say nothing of finding new staff. Whilst they've got moulds and digitally designed sculpts and a fanbase, the actual company side is gone so they've got to fully rebuild. In short whilst the lore and range of models was wide it is unlikely that Warcradle can just relaunch everything within a few months (far as I can tell the only miniatures company that could possibly do that is GW and they are much much bigger in terms of resources and such). 

Streamlining things like minor races early on is a very sound choice since it attempts to keep as many factions in the game; whilst also allowing warcradle proper time to balance and produce a functional complete working product. It would be far healthier for them to carry through with fewer races at the launch and then build on the game as it regrows in popularity and add in new factions, mechanics and ships as time goes on. 

 

The other aspect is market saturation - you can only launch so much at any one point in time without swamping the market - releasing too much that retailers won't want to buy into it all in one go; so much that fans get divided or annoyed when their minor faction doesn't get further support for a long time etc... 

 

 

So right now i think most here are debating that its highly possible we'll see FA streamlined - the core factions will remain with their fleets, but the alliance nations might be changed up a lot. However this is short-term. If FA releases and remains and grows as strong, if not stronger than it was before then in the fullness of time I'm sure Warcradle will expand it.

 

Heck even the new oriental nation in Dystopian wars could, in time, fracture and we could see a distinct Japanese or Korean fleet establish itself. 

 

 

I think the key to a strong game is good communication, good production, good support and generally a company that can work with what its got. We don't want to return to a situation like what Spartan had, where they were stretching their resources thin trying to support more games than they could. That is bad for the company and bad for customers (and in the extreme of cases, and granted there were other pressures and issues that contributed to it, it can lead to a company failing and closing - just before Christmas there was a serious chance that we would have lost the entire range). 

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Does the quality of your hobby improve or suffer as you axe races and ships?

I remember when the game had no alliance/league ships at all, only  6 main factions, and I'd go back to it in an instant. In my opinion the alliance ships only ever took away from the main six' potential fleet growth. The second SG started releasing alliance ships, the same second we've stopped getting interesting main 6 unit types. Woo, a faction which can teleport all over the board (Hi Kedorians) vs boring old relthoza, with one teleporting ship that's inferior in every way.

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One thing I have to say about the concept of eliminating a force, it sucks when you want to leave it to pursue another one.  It gets hard to sell to someone else if there is no reason to use the model.   For example, i went in to Black Templars shortly before 6th Edition started, then switched to Necrons about 3 months before their codex came out.  I was able to get rid of my Land Speeders, Jump Infantry, Shooting Crusaders, and even my Emperor's Champion with no difficulty.  I even got rid of a treadless Land Raider at the same time, but I had 2 squads of melee Crusader Squads and 2 Chaplains I was not able to get rid of until 6 months ago.  I was able to get rid of my Necron models shortly after GW released their huge FAQ which nerfed Independent Characters with no challenge.

I was at a local model market today and I saw someone selling off their Directorate force.  At first I felt sad  he wanted to get rid of it, and understood that his chance of selling them to anyone was very low.  Fortunately, he had the Return of the Overseers ships in there that I had been trying to find locally for some time (I only had the Patrol Fleet).  I was able to get them, a Dreadnought box, and Destroyer box, plus Hawker widgets and books and stuff, for $50.  He was lucky.

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14 hours ago, Pok said:

I remember when the game had no alliance/league ships at all, only  6 main factions, and I'd go back to it in an instant. In my opinion the alliance ships only ever took away from the main six' potential fleet growth. The second SG started releasing alliance ships, the same second we've stopped getting interesting main 6 unit types. Woo, a faction which can teleport all over the board (Hi Kedorians) vs boring old relthoza, with one teleporting ship that's inferior in every way.

Given the options for upgrades and hardpoints, how many hulls does a faction, major or minor, need to be competitive with more than one list build?

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It doesn't take much. As an RSN player it take the choice between destroyers and cruisers in an 800pt game to totally redefine how I'm going to use the board, and they're both stealthy sniper boats. This is the bit about Firestorm a REALLY like and why I'm not worried  about trying to find unique play styles and ships for each faction. Between coherence effects and MARs, (and you've got a strong point here but the shunt cruiser also has some tasty upgrades) even Relthoza cruisers have big choices to make not only in which you'll take, but how each is set up. MAR's are where the fluff hits the hull and where Firestorm really starts to shine on different fleet composition.

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1 hour ago, Pok said:

Of which one was always superior. Like with poor Terrans, which had to pick the +1HP upgrade if you picked any at all, as it was simply superior to the rest.

But this seems more a rules/point issue more than a model issue!

 

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20 hours ago, fracas said:

But this seems more a rules/point issue more than a model issue!

 

True.   There will have to be a reckoning with the stats as they currently exist, once we have a workable rules document. 

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On February 4, 2018 at 10:17 AM, Pok said:

Of which one was always superior. Like with poor Terrans, which had to pick the +1HP upgrade if you picked any at all, as it was simply superior to the rest.

There are great ones, and ones I'll usually pick, but I don't often see useless ones and you get to pick a couple so it's not like there's only one choice ever.

Alright, what faction has a complete lack of interaction balance and uniqueness? Who's sincerely lacking?

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In answer to Richard's early statement up-thread that there isn't much consensus, I think we can maybe try to sum up this Thread: 

*Most people like the existing fluff, but would like it to be more centralized and more in-depth - As opposed to sweeping retcons.

*Most people like more fleet choice where sustainable, but understand that in the short term Warcradle will need to focus on the Core factions.

*Most of us consider that a reduction in the fleets would be a valid decision but for business reasons,  rather than for Gaming/fluff reasons.

(Obviously there are differing views - as there always are, and I hope no-one is overly offended by me trying to sum up, but largely I feel we could say that these statements at least represent the majority of us here for Warcradle to think on?)

What do you all think?

 

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I think if we're not warcradle employees speculating on the business side of firestorm is far above our paygrade, as players let's focus on trying to create a tight and cohesive game rather than trying to axe stuff for reasons that are (as above) not at all our job as players. 

Id agree with your summary for sure, Spen

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I think the lack of unified ideas is totally normal and partly a result of the fact that there really aren't that many people here talking about it. So each individual viewpoint can quickly be quite varied from the other with fewer people to bulk out any aspect or angle of the argument. There's also the fact that the game is in limbo with so much potential on the table that its hard for random fans to unify it because of that potential.

 

The game could go in fluff, gameplay, model design, focus etc.... in so many directions that its hard to pin down what people want. 

 

In the end one thing we can agree on is that we want Firestorm back. We want space ships and pew-pew lasers in the stars and dice tumbling over the tabletop. Quite what we get is going to be dependant on what WC see as the vision for the game and what is economically viable. I'm very sure that whatever they give us we'll likely like as I'm sure they'll build on what is there rather than strip it out fully (if they wanted the latter they'd have just made their own game without the cost of buying into FA). 

 

 

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I'm not sold on it. Alliances and Charters make a lot of sense to me and I don't think groups like the Zenian League or the entire Kurak Alliance are going to be fully cooperative and peaceful partnerships 100% of the time. Like in every other tabletop, you need to write your own reasons why this battle is happening. The alliances as they are exist to make interesting fleets and give a universal 'us vs them, and them, and them' reason to fight. 

I dont don't see a reason to break it up into six separate factions other than needing a hard fluff, company given answer as to why one hobbyist's Sorylian fleet is allowed to do a game against a Terran one. You'll also make any other Zenian or Kurak combined fleets against the rules for tourney play by doing that.

I get the feeling Firestorm was designed wit mixed fleets in mind, and we as the players just picked our favorite faction and made a full fleet of those; fluff supporting game rules, we'll need to decide how important having access to allied fleets are. If its a big deal, two alliances might be best. If its not, there could be strong arguments made for splitting them up a little more. I'd sooner try out 3 main alliances than 6, at least to start. 

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1 hour ago, nguyen123 said:

I'm not sold on it. Alliances and Charters make a lot of sense to me and I don't think groups like the Zenian League or the entire Kurak Alliance are going to be fully cooperative and peaceful partnerships 100% of the time. Like in every other tabletop, you need to write your own reasons why this battle is happening. The alliances as they are exist to make interesting fleets and give a universal 'us vs them, and them, and them' reason to fight. 

I dont don't see a reason to break it up into six separate factions other than needing a hard fluff, company given answer as to why one hobbyist's Sorylian fleet is allowed to do a game against a Terran one. You'll also make any other Zenian or Kurak combined fleets against the rules for tourney play by doing that.

I get the feeling Firestorm was designed wit mixed fleets in mind, and we as the players just picked our favorite faction and made a full fleet of those; fluff supporting game rules, we'll need to decide how important having access to allied fleets are. If its a big deal, two alliances might be best. If its not, there could be strong arguments made for splitting them up a little more. I'd sooner try out 3 main alliances than 6, at least to start. 

How would you realign to three alliances?

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OK  I see this in the same way as Stargate Atlantis  any one see that searies . thought it was cool.  a bit on the good ver. evil , but that  ain't bad .  expanding on that, who or what that created the gates is gone now and thoes who have control  of the gates now , just ain't friendly with any side or faction . Maybe they do see us as food ???? Just like the Wraths 

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4 hours ago, murphy'slawofcombat said:

OK  I see this in the same way as Stargate Atlantis  any one see that searies . thought it was cool.  a bit on the good ver. evil , but that  ain't bad .  expanding on that, who or what that created the gates is gone now and thoes who have control  of the gates now , just ain't friendly with any side or faction . Maybe they do see us as food ???? Just like the Wraths 

I'm sorry mate, I don't fully understand

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On 1/14/2018 at 5:33 AM, Pok said:

I'd gladly see less "ancient prophesy" nonsense, and more of grand space opera focus.  And some serious curbing of the allied factions. We dont need ten subfactions all doing the same thing as main 6, just better.

I agree, we have enough factions now just expand on what we have now 

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On 1/14/2018 at 10:52 AM, Wolfgang Jannesen said:

There's absolutely room for mysticism and imperial politics in this universe. I like to think of it like Dune, where the legend and destiny of the main character are important on a personal scale to him, but the actual Wars of Arrakis and the power moves to bring the Atriedes name into a position where the end of the book could happen are all directly hard sci-fi political intrigue. 

Hell, the Church of Dramos Angels drag all sorts of weird smells in their thuribles around my ships, and I don't know if it makes a difference but it makes the lads feel like they've sanctified themselves. 

EDIT: Is there a resource with more information on groups like the Dramos Angels? Do we have a list of religions and deities in the Firestorm Universe?

I hated the Dune anthology . I found it slow and boring  never did  finish  the last  book.

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