Fuel Reserves in 2.5

[Wolfchild]

The new rule states after a critical hit roll 1d6. On a 5 or RED 6 place a Raging Fire marker on the model

Does this mean that if successive 6s are rolled, any number of raging fires could potentially be triggered by just 1 critical hit?

or

If a 5 or 6 is rolled, place 'A' (singular) raging fire marker.

 

.....basically the way the sentence is written doesn't make sense, just poor grammar.

Can anyone give a clarification on this please?

[Nazduruk_Bugzappa]

The first is correct. That red6 means exactly what it means

1-4: no fire

5: one fire

6: two fires, and roll again

[Merlin]

4 hours ago, Nazduruk_Bugzappa said:

6: two fires, and roll again

The rule doesn't say you get 2 fires. Only that you place "a Raging Fire marker."

 

Singular. 

 

So while you can reroll, you only ever put a single fire token on a roll of 6.

[Wolfchild]

This is my confusion:

"a raging fire token" = singular

but RED(6) suggests multiple.

Spartan really should have got someone objective to proof read their grammar, check for typos, basic sentence building and ambiguities. Ideally someone who hasn't played before and someone else who hasn't been enmeshed in development but has played just enough to have a game concept.

if u know too much ur brain fills the gaps and mistakes become assumed almost subconsciously as something different to what is actually there.

really hoping there'll be an edited digi rule book to tidy this stuff up.

[Jsiegel1983]

I read it as a singular raging fire token.  There are ways to modify rolls and at least one specifies that it can't affect a red 6.  That may be why they used red 6 opposed to basic 6.  Some clarification from Spartan would be helpful.

I completely agree with you about the proof reading of the rules.  I recommended having the community proof read them, but Spartan did not respond.

[Erloas]

I would say for each "success" put a raging fire token.  If they didn't want it that way they would have just used a black 6, which is commonly used in other places.

The fact that the exploding dice mechanic is very well covered and thoroughly used throughout the book means they don't have to define it in every MAR and other places they use it.

If they wanted to be explicit they would say: "If this Model suffers a Critical Hit roll 1D6. On a 5 or (RED) 6 place a Raging Fire Marker on the Model for each success as determined by the Exploding Dice mechanic." But that is being redundant because they've already clearly defined that (RED) 6 means that you use the exploding dice mechanic, which leads to more than a single possible success.

[Jsiegel1983]

I thought it was a typo.  Admittedly it probably is supposed to use the exploding dice mechanic.  My group usually forgets about this rule so it doesn't come up often.

[Merlin]

3 hours ago, Erloas said:

I would say for each "success" put a raging fire token.  If they didn't want it that way they would have just used a black 6, which is commonly used in other places.

The fact that the exploding dice mechanic is very well covered and thoroughly used throughout the book means they don't have to define it in every MAR and other places they use it.

If they wanted to be explicit they would say: "If this Model suffers a Critical Hit roll 1D6. On a 5 or (RED) 6 place a Raging Fire Marker on the Model for each success as determined by the Exploding Dice mechanic." But that is being redundant because they've already clearly defined that (RED) 6 means that you use the exploding dice mechanic, which leads to more than a single possible success.

It's a clear RAI vs RAW argument, but until an FAQ is put up the "correct" way to work this is a single Raging Fire Marker for every 5 and red 6 because the Red 6 equals two successes and the last time I checked a Raging Fire marker is not a success, but an effect.

 

At least that would be the argument.

 

And working in the construction industry, there is no such thing as being redundant. Especially when you want to make it completely clear as to what your meaning is.

[Elessar]

There is no such thing as a RAI argument, unless you use the 'I' to stand for 'Incompetence'.

 

All the same - I have to side with the '2 hits' crowd.  The wording of what Red 6s mean is pretty unambiguous...and while Fuel Reserves does not describe any result as a 'success'...it's clear that if the attacking player rolls, it would be a success.  Really sucks for my Calicos though...

[Paradomutante]

i bet is a typo surely is a 5 or 6 normal dice. Or if explodes you roll again with a 5  or 6 you put one aditional marker never 2.

[Erloas]

The "only one raging fire marker" would only make sense if raging fire was a binary yes/no, but it is clear from the many other effects that give ranging fire markers that they are intended to be stacked.  Fury Generator = multiple raging fire markers, Raging Fire critical hit = multiple raging fire markers, flamethrower weapons = multiple raging fire markers (explicitly states on the 3rd bullet point, page 134).  The only place where multiple isn't stated is Incendiary Munitions, which says place one Raging Fire Marker on the target if you beat the DR. 

So to go back and say that it doesn't make sense for the Fuel Reserves MAR to apply multiple Raging Fire Markers is ignoring the exploding dice mechanic and every other instance of Raging Fire.

[Erloas]

1 minute ago, Paradomutante said:

i bet is a typo surely is a 5 or 6 normal dice. Or if explodes you roll again with a 5  or 6 you put one aditional marker never 2.

If they wanted it to use a different mechanic than every other set of roles in the game then they would have stated that.  They decided to use (red) 6 for a reason, you can't just go ignoring one of the key aspects of (red) 6 just because you don't like it in this one case.

[Hubcap]

Too bad they couldn't change the rule to be a success on 4, 5 and (Blue 6). I guess the idea of using a Red 6 is to give the feeling that the fire crews might not be able to contain the fuel fires from expanding. 

Since there is some confusion we should wait for an official response from Spartan on how to interpret this rule. @Spartan Josh @Spartan Mike can you take a quick break from Orbat updates to help out?  

[Wolfchild]

Agreed with @Hubcap I would have tagged the Spartan guys from the start if I'd known which to list.

It just seems a little crazy that inventive scientists roll could actually lead to burning up a whole ship if u get unlucky with a few rolls. Two 6s equating to 4 fires, bearing in mind it's usually used for shield gen rerolls when ur likely already taking damage, goodbye smaller mediums.

[Erloas]

14 hours ago, Wolfchild said:

It just seems a little crazy that inventive scientists roll could actually lead to burning up a whole ship if u get unlucky with a few rolls. Two 6s equating to 4 fires, bearing in mind it's usually used for shield gen rerolls when ur likely already taking damage, goodbye smaller mediums.

Can you explain what you mean?  I'm not sure how Inventive Scientists come into this?  Only place I see Inventive Scientists roll possibly having to do with fires would be with a fury generator, and the most you can get there is 3, no (red) 6 involved in the fury generator nor inventive scientists.  I don't see any other generators that could cause fires.

[Wolfchild]

Sorry, getting confused. (Inventive scientists used to cause a raging fire on a 1 but now its corrosion). But this is about Fuel Reserves. Doh!

[mungus66]

On 8/7/2017 at 12:15 PM, Erloas said:

I would say for each "success" put a raging fire token.  If they didn't want it that way they would have just used a black 6, which is commonly used in other places.

The fact that the exploding dice mechanic is very well covered and thoroughly used throughout the book means they don't have to define it in every MAR and other places they use it.

If they wanted to be explicit they would say: "If this Model suffers a Critical Hit roll 1D6. On a 5 or (RED) 6 place a Raging Fire Marker on the Model for each success as determined by the Exploding Dice mechanic." But that is being redundant because they've already clearly defined that (RED) 6 means that you use the exploding dice mechanic, which leads to more than a single possible success.

 

 

[Asuo]

As per the exploding dice mechanic which governs the red 6 when ever you roll a red six it counts as 2 hits, this would mean that you get 2 fires and a reroll on a 6.

[Nazduruk_Bugzappa]

Correct.