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S..Mike

3rd Edition Cyberwarfare and Gravitational Weapons

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2 hours ago, Xystophoroi said:

Can I suggest just replacing any mention of d3 with the value 2 instead. Speeds things up (as it removes an additional roll) and gets rid of spike and failure where your crit is no better than the standard damage and you don't then get a spike for 3 damage either.

Noted.  Thanks.

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That also removes the possibility of 1-shotting 3HP non-capital ships (should such a ship exist).  Assuming that the rule about non-capital ships being destroyed by a crit is still in, I see no reason not to employ it here as well: if you get crit by Cyber or Grav, you also cease to exist.  It would bring a bit more uniformity to the rules and still eliminate another dice roll. 

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I just saw in the other thread that CP damage no longer reduces effectiveness of weapons.  I wanted to post that here, as it is also a significant consideration in the balance of Cyberweapons.  In the current version, you can use them to whittle down firepower from the opposing force, which makes up for the lack of being able to do damage.  In the new edition, you only reduce firepower if you also get a damaging roll, so Cyberwarfare is only effective in that role if you get a Critical effect or better.  I assume that this has been (or will be) tested, but wanted to make sure it received consideration.  You've made Cyberwarfare both more interesting in that you *can* get damage from it, and less in that if you don't crit (or get lucky and disable a weapon system) you'll take full return fire back.  Of particular importance to squadrons who either have a main weapon that's Cyber (Turmoils, Anarchist, some Omnidyne, possibly Hostilities) or have Cyber as a large part of their offensive profile (potentially most Omnidyne).  Speaking of Omnidyne and Hostility drones, what does ART do now?  I just realized I didn't see it listed in the Weapons Mar section.

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I don't know, cyberwarfare wasn't a tool to destroy frigates with critical hits, as part of the rules stated they don't actually cause critical hits.  Clearly this is a move to change that, but I don't feel 3 hp non-capitals need special assurances to always survive a cyberwarfare attack.  It's already a notable shift for Cyberwarfare to be given more oomph against all ships in general, vaporizing frigates is something I'd be watching closely.  Frankly though, without a solid set of model statistics, it's all guesswork as to how this will play out, and I don't think 3 HP frigates necessarily need guarantees of survival.  Favor them too much and they either become too expensive for their intended role, similar to escorts, or too effective.

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It usually vaporized Frigates on a crit due to causing 2 CP loss, and non-capitals die if they hit 0CP.  While there might be some frigates with 3+CP, I can't recall any off the top of my head.  Only the unmanned ones were safe from being smited by Cyber.

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Well, actually the Terran Armsmen are 3 CP frigates.  This probably skewed my perspective more than it should given my personal play experience.  Cyberwarfare is still subject to the Difficult Target MAR, and it feels like a waste to go frigate hunting with most cyberwarfare AD stats.

Granted, cyberwarfare can usually kill a frigate with a critical hit as most other weapon systems would.  Actually, now that I'm looking, Gravitational weapons seem to do barely anything to frigates?  A single point of damage per critical rating threshold reached?  Seems like a big drawback.

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Yeh the CP issue is gonna cause a lot of wringing of hands - and boosts weapon shieldings poekyness highly as there really isn't an answer short of annihilation

Would love the rationale behind this change please? Why did you feel it necessary to change CP loss so harshly?  

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I don't mind that at all.  It was a real screw to the Terrans.  They always paid for Weapon Shielding (built into the base ship price), but the Directorate made it value-less with Bio everything.  Worst rock/paper/scissors problem in the game.

Now, I hope CP loss has some other general impact to give it more utility, but not impacting AD is fine (with me, and I play Directorate against Terrans :) --though I stopped maxing Bio in those games ages ago because it just wasn't fair).

My bigger concern, to be honest, is that boarding is apparently less about capturing ships now, which also makes CP loss less useful.  Need to see how that plays out.

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On 7/30/2017 at 2:48 PM, Xystophoroi said:

How do we know if we have a Damaging Critical or Multiple Critical?

I assume if you deal >=CR+DR for the first and >=CR+CR for the second?

Yes.  The damaging critical would deal 1 HP and a roll on the Critical Effects table (dealing an extra 2+ HP, depending on the result), the Multiple would get multiple rolls on the table, for damage and effects each time.

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Any thoughts on changing the non-capital hits to either a flat 2 or destroyed?  It seems odd that a Crit can have the exact same effect as a normal hit.  I'm also not sure what prompted the ignore difficult/evasive target unless it's to emphasize the "I ignore defenses, period" aspect.  

Also is push/pull gone with Grav guns?  Exceptionally situational, but an amusing trick that you could use sometimes.  Pushing a battlestation along with its escorts was quite funny.

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Yes, we wanted to emphasize the 'area effect' nature of these weapons.   

Push/pull is not in the current ruleset.  Please post over in the optional rules thread so I don't lose track of the request.

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8 hours ago, reddwarf said:

My bigger concern, to be honest, is that boarding is apparently less about capturing ships now, which also makes CP loss less useful.  Need to see how that plays out.

That too, right now CP loss is so niche it feels not worth doing, and leaves no hard answer to weapon shielding 

I see your issue with rock paper scissors but Bio on it's own normally wasn't 'that' good  if I hit your ship and damaged it one crew and 1 CP for most factions had the same difference, I've not often gone Bio heavy as it didn't decrew fast enough  

What you don't want is rock, scissors, paper and dynamite - and right now weapon shielded ships will rapidly be dynamite 

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On 31/07/2017 at 8:52 AM, Spartan_FA_Mike said:

Take the Ba'Kash Kelor Standard Frigate.  It starts with 5 ships in its squadron and has a Secondary gun firing at 5(3) at point blank range.  That gives me a 17 dice attack (5+3+3+3+3) with 5 ships, then 14 (5+3+3+3) when the first ship dies, 11 when we're down to 3 ships, and so on.  This assumes that all of the ships are at full health for the attack.  Let's say I have 2 ships that have taken 1 HP each, and 2 at full health (at 2 HP).  My attack would be 14 dice.  Because these are secondary weapons, they have the Weapon Shielding MAR, which reduces 1 success for every 2 HP damage.  Thus, if I were to roll out 10 successes, I would remove zero, since each ship has the Weapon Shielding.  

This is the only reference I found to v3 Weapon Shielding and it doesn't ignore all damage. 

There is This "Encased Weapons" MAR, but nothing to suggest Terrans get slathered with it.

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Yeah, Weapon Shielding and Encased Weapons are out there somewhere in this mess. :)

Here are the details, since I don't want to go find it either:

Weapon Shielding (Weapon) 
An Attack/Action by models with the Weapon Shielding MAR reduces the number of success generated by the Weapon/Statistic listed in the bracket by ONE for every TWO points of Hull Damage they have suffered.

Encased Weapon System (Weapon) 
If all contributors to an Attack using the weapon listed in the bracket have this MAR, they may ignore all Damage present when determining the number of successes rolled. 

 

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Okay, I'm wondering if no one else is thinking this.  Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that Gravitational Weapons seem to be, just inferior Cyberwarfare weapons?  Also, unless something in the weapon statistic break down makes them noticeably more effective on average, their capabilities revealed thus far are objectively inferior in quality.  However, even if they are monstrous in AD potential, this feels like a loss of characterization in V3.0 from what I've seen.  I don't feel that keeping these as separate and individual options really makes the game more thematically interesting.

If you're dropping the push/pull aspect of gravitational weapons, and not giving them any other gravity themed replacement effect, then why not just remove them entirely?  Are some of you people out there feeling that Gravitational Weapons without the gravity effects need to keep being a thing that exists?  I feel like you might as well just make Direct Cyberwarfare weapons an option and it wouldn't be much, if any, loss.  Well, aside from cutting an unnecessary weapon entry, which could be considered a net gain.

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