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Gonmoa

Indian Raj 2.5

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I'm dissapointed with our new orbat. No good news... Only bad news, I'm afraid...

We have lost the indirect fire, because we don't have spotter ships (only the useless hawk, and only 16''), and now our lovely jhasa is less useful because they cutted the power of the Howitzer Bombard...

The Chanura is still the less powerful Heavy Battleship I've seen in this game, too expensive and not vey powerful (compare it with the HB of the egyptian or any other nation); The Canda is cool, but still has a fixed channel Bombard (and you can't use the indirect fire because you don't have spotters), the devacks can't link the turret and the broadsides...

When I play against the japannese fleet, or the almost any other fleet, is very hard to win. Do we deserve these downgrading (I'm not native english, i'm not sure if this is the right word)? 

 

I'm seriously thinking about to sell my indian's fleet and go back to 40k... :(

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Hey @Gonmoa, it's to early to be dissapointed, the alliances rules are temporary and still being working on. My guess is that Spartan Games is working on all the alliances rules like they did with the main nation.

So to say, right now the Indian Raj Orbats are just a 2.5 compatible version. It's not the final Orbats.

Expect a few changes before the release of the final version ;)

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I hope so... This weekend I have three battles in Madrid (Spain) and I'm not very comfortable with the cuts we have suffered.

 

I've seen that the Canda's howitzer bombard is now a secundary weapon instead a primary one. As it has fixed channel you can't link it with the broadsides at all; and as it doesn't fire at range 1... What's the point of this change? Is it useful for anything?

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Aren't those rules for the old Canada ground forces ? All the ground forces will be more or less entirely reworked in the future, so expect new sets of rules for them.

I'll wait to have my hands on the upcoming Dominion of Canada Orbats.

 

EDIT : Sorry, misinterpreted Canda for Canada, just ignore my post :/

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12 hours ago, Gonmoa said:

and now our lovely jhasa is less useful because they cutted the power of the Howitzer Bombard...

Yes, but it's also slightly cheaper and the Guardian version is unchanged.

The Chanura is still the less powerful Heavy Battleship I've seen in this game, too expensive and not vey powerful (compare it with the HB of the egyptian or any other nation);

Not sure I agree with that. If you compare the Chanura to the Monarch HBB it has superior turrets, all facing forward and Piercing. Better aggressive crew, faster when moving in a straight line, about as durable if you take a shield generator or support for your advancing units (and the Chanura itself) if you take the timeflow generator. Compare it to the Kaiser Karl, and it's less durable but it has better turrets and crew. The Chanura is not necessarily the best heavy battleship in the game, but it's definately not one of the weaker ones.

The Canda is cool, but still has a fixed channel Bombard (and you can't use the indirect fire because you don't have spotters)

Indian Commodores can take the Perfect Plotting trait, negating the need for spotters for one unit per turn. Fixed channel is a mixed bag, I tend to enjoy forward fixed channels but sideways fixed channels mess me up a bit. Still, fixed forward does give you some additional options and not only restrictions.

the devacks can't link the turret and the broadsides...

Sure you can! Why wouldn't you be able to? They're both simple secondary weapons.

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11 hours ago, Farcages said:

Yes, but it's also slightly cheaper and the Guardian version is unchanged.

 

I know... But I'm talking about the Bombard version, which is the one that I use. Obviously is cheaper but what can I do with 10 extra points?? Oh, I can take an ACE!!

I suppose you don't play with an Indian Raj fleet. Do you? I do. Indeed is my only fleet by the moment (althoug I'm preparing a British one):

1.- Devka's main turrets are primary weapons and Devack's broadsides are secondary weapons. I can't link them.

2.- Ok, I can use indirect fire with only one ship... Good bye to use two Jhasa and two Candas as I used to do... Now, only one if you're thinking to use indirect fire...

3.- Do you think that my opponents are afraid of the Chanura? No. They're not. They're more afraid of a Indus squadron almost... That's sad...

And about the monarch, Are you kidding me?? Two main turrets, Two heavy turrets, Broadsides, fore torpedoes (terciary wapons, wich not suffer the Weapons Damage critical hit), P/S torpedoes (terciary wapons, wich not suffer the Weapons Damage critical hit), Shields(3) generator (instead 2), Elite crew by the same price than the Chanura (instead agressive) and of course, piercing munitions in two of the turrets... And, I'm sorry, but Monarch is faster than Chanura. hanura can be faster only if it doesn't turn (and just 1 inch).

As @Marden told, I hope this is a temporary and we will find changes in the future, but my friends have core nations and they hae their orbat more or less more balanced. I've been waiting a looooong month to find this... And summer is the period when all of us have more time to play.

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5 hours ago, Gonmoa said:

I know... But I'm talking about the Bombard version, which is the one that I use. Obviously is cheaper but what can I do with 10 extra points?? Oh, I can take an ACE!!

I'm somewhat tempted to say this brings Jhasa carriers more in line with regular Assault Carriers. Admittedly they've been hit pretty hard, but for what you pay you still get a decent carrier and second-line combatant. It's still a pretty hard-hitting gun, they still have their forward secondary guns, and they have an obscene amount of AP. I'd say the lack of Troop Reinforcement hits them harder. One of my preferred tactics was advancing the Chanura followed closely by a Jhasa, boarding with the Chanura, replenishing AP with the Jhasa and boarding with the Chanura again.

I suppose you don't play with an Indian Raj fleet. Do you? I do. Indeed is my only fleet by the moment (althoug I'm preparing a British one):

As a matter of fact I did. I've owned Prussians, Britannians, Blazing Sun, Indian Raj, Teutonic Order, Ottomans, Americans. The Indian Raj always felt quite powerful to me.

1.- Devka's main turrets are primary weapons and Devack's broadsides are secondary weapons. I can't link them.

Yeah, sorry, thought you meant the Indus heavy destroyers as those could previously link their turrets and broadsides. As far as I know, Devaks have never been able to link their turrets and broadsides. They still have very powerful guns though, and they have superb boarding capabilities.

2.- Ok, I can use indirect fire with only one ship... Good bye to use two Jhasa and two Candas as I used to do... Now, only one if you're thinking to use indirect fire...

Admittedly this is a departure from 2.0, IDF has changed quite a lot around the board. Apart from the Raj other factions such as the Russians have had to adjust as well. No more stacking to hit modifiers either. I'll assume there will be more Spotter models in the ORBAT for the Raj to come, and that'll address this issue somewhat. I've met tournament lists with a Jhasa and 3 Canda's before though, and they're quite simply not too much fun to play against.

3.- Do you think that my opponents are afraid of the Chanura? No. They're not. They're more afraid of a Indus squadron almost... That's sad...

How do you use the Chanura? It's at Prussian battleship level boarding capacity and brings enough firepower to cripple a cruiser squadron at RB3.

And about the monarch, Are you kidding me?? Two main turrets, Two heavy turrets, Broadsides, fore torpedoes (terciary wapons, wich not suffer the Weapons Damage critical hit), P/S torpedoes (terciary wapons, wich not suffer the Weapons Damage critical hit), Shields(3) generator (instead 2), Elite crew by the same price than the Chanura (instead agressive) and of course, piercing munitions in two of the turrets... And, I'm sorry, but Monarch is faster than Chanura. hanura can be faster only if it doesn't turn (and just 1 inch).

Sure, the Monarch has more weapons, but they're usually weaker as a result. If linking all turrets at a target on RB3, the Monarch can bring bring 14 AD (no Piercing effect, as we're linking with weapons without piercing). Then there's 5 AD from the broadsides, and if you manage to line up fixed channel broadsides you'll have 7 AD from torpedoes which will most likely have to go through CC. This means your front torpedoes will be facing a different target, and most often you'll find yourself either aligning the front fixed channel or the p/s fixed channel, not both. In the same vein, The Chanura will face down a target with a 16 AD piercing attack and 5 AD broadside. So, you'd lose out on 2 AD and piercing on turrets and gain a hard-to-aim torpedo broadside. Also note that the Chanura will have a vastly easier time bringing all turrets to bear on the same target.

RB2 we get an 18 AD strike from turrets, 8 AD torpedo broadside and 6 AD regular broadside. The Chanura will have an 18 AD Piercing strike from it's turrets and 7 AD regular broadsides. On paper the Monarch comes ahead, but the Chanura will again have an easier time bringing all guns on the same target.

On crew: the Chanura has 2 additional AP and Terror Tactics (3), so if you have Elite crew on the Monarch it can attack with 8 AP rolling 8 AD on 3. The Chanura could attack with 10 AP rolling 13 AD on 3+, easily outclassing the Monarch in boarding.

Sure, the Monarch is slightly faster if both vessels are turning, but the Monarch will _have_ to turn more to bring weapons to bear. The Chanura is easy to point to a target, then advance full speed ahead. Shield (3) vs Shield (2), sure. Wouldn't say that makes the Monarch vastly tougher. If you consider putting a Guardian on a Jhasa, escorting the Chanura and using the Time Flow of the Chanura, the Chanura suddenly becomes immensely scary when combined with it's long range boarding capacity. I've taken out dreadnoughts like this.

On paper the Monarch might appear stronger, but I'd disagree with that assessment.

As @Marden told, I hope this is a temporary and we will find changes in the future, but my friends have core nations and they hae their orbat more or less more balanced. I've been waiting a looooong month to find this... And summer is the period when all of us have more time to play.

I'm sorry you're disappointed, and hope the new ORBATs will be here soon as well. As Mike said in other threads, these are far from final stats and I'd suspect the Raj will get some decent loving in the next round of ORBAT updates.

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