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Moonhare

CAP query in 2.5

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Could anyone help me clarify rules on Combat Air Patrols (CAP) in 2.5?

I understand that CAPs move independently unlike in 2.0 when they stayed in base to base contact with the parent (although they move during the squadron's activation). When a model with an attached CAP is attacked by Boarding Assault, the CAP can link AA Anti-Boarding fire if up to 4" from parent (p145).If the parent model is subject to an aerial attack the CAP can only link in with Aggressive Counter attack linked fire if the attacker is 4" from the CAP (p125 and p136)

My first question is can a CAP use linked AA fire with the parent model to provide defensive fire against rockets when the parent is the target? If so, how far away from parent model can the CAP be? Is it 4" from parent or 4" from attacker or another value?

Another question arises from attacks on the CAP. If a squadron targets the CAP (and only AA can target SAS) can the parent provide linked fire to join in? Is this also the case if the targetting squadron is also an SAS ? In a dogfight can the parent model assist?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

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In general, as far as reading the rules go, I get the gist that in 2.5 a CAP is treated as a model within the parent squadron, which means they share activations and perhaps even coherency, but otherwise function as solo models. 

As such, other than that, I see no reason to treat an escort and CAPs differently. An escort/CAP must be within range of an aerial attacker to defend against it, as normal. They must be within range of the parent model to defend it from Boarding Assault, like normal. Hence, for defending against rockets, the same rule as to escorts and other squadron members applies: 4'' from parent model to be able to defend it.

Your second question, however, is more interesting. As a CAP is technically part of the squadron, the parent model should theoretically be able to assist in the fight if its an aerial model (and is within 4'' from the SAS so that THEY can fire back), but the linking-combining rules get a bit weird here. Same thing with attackers being SAS, its just strange mechanically. Though, I don't see why not, at least from a fluff perspective.

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And, what if a team of dive bombers attacks a BB with CAP. I assume the CAP can link in counter attack if the CAP is within 4'' of the parent model. But what about the dive bombers firing back? I assume they can and that is done simultainiusly?

 

Adding 5AA is very powerful. But then, if you do so, it cannot be activated by your carriers...

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Having read over everything again, I think CAP functions exactly the same as any other Mixed Squadron.  So that the SAS and parent unit activate at the same time, and that they have to stay within 8" of each other to stay in Command Coherency.

With SAS being Fearless then it wouldn't matter to them if they left Command Coherency, but it would apply to the parent model.  You don't take Chaos and Disarray for loosing CAP/escorts but that seems to be the only exception, so it would still happen if you leave coherency.

CAP can clearly take part in defensive counter measures, such as taking out incoming rockets.

I'm in agreement with jupjupy, just adding a bit.

For the second, I see no reason why the parent couldn't defend the CAP just like any other member of a mixed squadron.  Of course that wouldn't be a dogfight, as a dogfight is explicitly between SAS, so if the parent linked in I would treat it as a normal Attack run and defensive counter attack.

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So how would the interaction of combined and linked stack up?

Assuming:

  • CAP linking with parent acting as lead would be combined within the CAP (i.e. 10 dice) then half the combined pool in order to link?
  • CAP acting as lead AA with parent linking would combine for 10 dice plus half the parent AA? 

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1 minute ago, Maccabeus said:

So how would the interaction of combined and linked stack up?

Assuming:

  • CAP linking with parent acting as lead would be combined within the CAP (i.e. 10 dice) then half the combined pool in order to link?
  • CAP acting as lead AA with parent linking would combine for 10 dice plus half the parent AA? 

If the parent is attacked the CAP link in as would be normal for any other attachment. As SAS, though, they would combine with themselves first, then link it in. So they would provide only 5AA in any scenario where the parent is attacked.

 

If the CAP is attacked, the parent would link in it's AA...presumably.

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Thanks for the helpful comments so far, you have pointed me in the right direction. I havenow  found the passage I was looking for on p125. Under Defensive Counter Attacks it notes that 'Any Linking/Combined Fir measures its range from the Linking Models to the Model they are defending' and because AA is range 4" when defending against rockets (p136), the CAP needs to be 4" away from the parent model - it is after all just another model in a mixed squadron as has been pointed out.

On question 2 - with SAS attacks vs CAPs, is this a case of creating a mixed dice pool? ('Sometimes the dice in a Linked AD Pool comes from weaponry with differing 'To Hit' numbers' p129). So in the last example 1/2 AA Heavy (BLUE) Dice for the parent model hitting attacking SAS on 4+ and 10 Heavy (BLUE) Dice hitting attacking SAS on 5+ for the CAP (although both may be adjusted by Hunter MAR)?

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Moonhare said:

Thanks for the helpful comments so far, you have pointed me in the right direction. I havenow  found the passage I was looking for on p125. Under Defensive Counter Attacks it notes that 'Any Linking/Combined Fir measures its range from the Linking Models to the Model they are defending' and because AA is range 4" when defending against rockets (p136), the CAP needs to be 4" away from the parent model - it is after all just another model in a mixed squadron as has been pointed out.

On question 2 - with SAS attacks vs CAPs, is this a case of creating a mixed dice pool? ('Sometimes the dice in a Linked AD Pool comes from weaponry with differing 'To Hit' numbers' p129). So in the last example 1/2 AA Heavy (BLUE) Dice for the parent model hitting attacking SAS on 4+ and 10 Heavy (BLUE) Dice hitting attacking SAS on 5+ for the CAP (although both may be adjusted by Hunter MAR)?

 

 

 

That would be most sensable... If the cap is fighters they have hunter (aerial) so also hit on 4+... However, due to SAS being able to respawn if they are totaly eliminated, you might not want to link...

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