Gonmoa Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 Everyone knows that the Eagle and the Illustrious are two models as beautiful as useless. Too slow to use mines or the bombing effectively, woth too weaks turrets for its cost. I was waiting for the 2.5 in the hope that they was going to be improved, but not. Now the released a last update, but both of the remain as useless as they was. Even more expensive!!! I'm very dissapointed because I can¡t use them in a battle yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazduruk_Bugzappa Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 Really? I've never seen them as "useless" in my fleet. Admittedly, I prefer the Illustrious for the extra utility in smaller games, and usually only take the Eagle as part of the "Prince" squadron. In either case, I never use them as "frontline" models. They usually anchor a flank, or a strategic location on the battlefield, and spend a lot of their time laying mines in a slowly expanding circle (because magnetic/sentient mines can be moved) and taking pot-shots at any small models that could potentially cause trouble for the rest of my fleet. Having no minimum move, and a 360° turn also means that they don't have to worry about the +1 to hit penalty. They're aircraft, so don't have to worry about torpedoes, and can sit at Stratospheric if you feel like it. The only thing I don't like about them is the internal competition between each of them. That high CC value should have been on the Eagle, to give it a clear role as a mine-sweeper. RuleBritannia, S.Mike and McKinstry 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draco84oz Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 59 minutes ago, Gonmoa said: Everyone knows... One of these days I must make an appointment to meet this great philosopher "Everyone". They sound like such an enlightened person... Hubcap, Marden and Gen. Eric 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presidente Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 The eagle and the illustrious have always been the joke of the game, if they haven't been fixed in this edition then that's very funny. Maybe the Canadian eagle glued too a zeppelin will be better Gonmoa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazduruk_Bugzappa Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 11 minutes ago, Presidente said: ...Maybe the Canadian eagle glued too a zeppelin will be better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen. Eric Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, Nazduruk_Bugzappa said: Don't they use a Beaver as their symbolic animal? I know we do here in Oregon (it's on the back side of the flag). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffHardisty Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 I must be doing something wrong then since the Illustrious is finding its way into all my lists in 2.5. Carriers in this edition are powerful (if you dont have one in your list you are playing at a disadvantage), and having one that can sit stratospheric means you can get your carrier up into their forces, and they have to roll 6's (unless they have hunter) to hit you, and you have shields if you paid for them. Nothing like rearming your bomber SAS right after they do a bombing run, or just bringing a SAW tray of bombers back right over their ships. As for the Eagle, I am sure it is fine, but you can only take 40% non core (aerial counts as non nore in navel games), so I dont tend to take it over the Illustrious. That Illustrious is just to good, not to take. SirEmilCrane 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurking Vanguard Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 I used to think the Illustrious was a waste of points in 2.0. Too expensive with too little firepower. But in 2.5 it's suddenly become (probably by accident) very useful, especially paired with the Magnate 2. Now it can go stratospheric (the guns were rubbish anyway so no loss), moving slowly across the board dropping a barrier of mines (just as good from stratospheric), replacing SAS as they die and potentially area bombing anyone navigating through the mines, trying to close with your Magnate. All of this while being nigh on impregnable due to High DR/CR and shields and being hit only on 6s. I used the two in a recent game and it was massively effective. I think the Tourbillion is still better but difference is less than it used to be as it doesn't have mines, so loses more by going high. Gonmoa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazduruk_Bugzappa Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 Don't forget, the Illustrious also has the advantage of 360° movement, so can just sit in one spot without having to set a slow speed marker, and you can bend the rules "slightly" for deploying mines (deployment within 2" of the rear of the model, at any point during its movement, can be exploited when rotating doesn't cost movement) Gonmoa and Nicholas 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas_Archer Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 Just wait... I wouldnt thriw away your Eagles just yet... Hubcap, S.Mike and Benchpresser 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benchpresser Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 20 minutes ago, Texas_Archer said: Just wait... I wouldnt thriw away your Eagles just yet... You evil teasing bastage (sends a squad of Empire Ninjas after Archer...) S.Mike and Hubcap 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubcap Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 how dare you!!! @Texas_Archer haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonmoa Posted July 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 10 hours ago, Lurking Vanguard said: I used to think the Illustrious was a waste of points in 2.0. Too expensive with too little firepower. But in 2.5 it's suddenly become (probably by accident) very useful, especially paired with the Magnate 2. Now it can go stratospheric (the guns were rubbish anyway so no loss), moving slowly across the board dropping a barrier of mines (just as good from stratospheric), replacing SAS as they die and potentially area bombing anyone navigating through the mines, trying to close with your Magnate. All of this while being nigh on impregnable due to High DR/CR and shields and being hit only on 6s. I used the two in a recent game and it was massively effective. I think the Tourbillion is still better but difference is less than it used to be as it doesn't have mines, so loses more by going high. I agree with you. I have had the same sensation. I don't use a british fleet, to be honest, but an Indian`s one. I can combine it with the time flow`s gereneratos of he chanura and I think it will be very very interestinsg. Indeed, tomorrow i'm trying it!! (I hope my opponent is not reading this topic! hahaha.) About the eagle and the Hawks... it's a pity. I don't find them useful at all... Regadrs from spain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phant Mastik Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 In my last game I used a a squad of Hawks and was quite impressed. With shield(2) in stratospheric they're durable. This moved them up the painting queue several stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonmoa Posted July 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Phant Mastik said: In my last game I used a a squad of Hawks and was quite impressed. With shield(2) in stratospheric they're durable. This moved them up the painting queue several stages. In stratospheric? With a to hit number of six and without area bombardment?? You should be very lucky with dices... If if they had area bombardment, it could be an option. And you could link them with the eagle in the prince squadron. But without it, it's very much interesting and cheap a Squire Squadron or even a lone Halifax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erloas Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 You don't have to stay in Stratospheric the entire time, just until you close. By the time you're in RB1 there will be a lot less that can shoot at them and there will be a lot of other targets as well. Stratospheric would just be defense to make it to close ranges intact, not that you have to live there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phant Mastik Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 This and dropping a mine does not have a to-hit number Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonmoa Posted July 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 On 26/7/2017 at 2:19 PM, Lurking Vanguard said: I used to think the Illustrious was a waste of points in 2.0. Too expensive with too little firepower. But in 2.5 it's suddenly become (probably by accident) very useful, especially paired with the Magnate 2. Now it can go stratospheric (the guns were rubbish anyway so no loss), moving slowly across the board dropping a barrier of mines (just as good from stratospheric), replacing SAS as they die and potentially area bombing anyone navigating through the mines, trying to close with your Magnate. All of this while being nigh on impregnable due to High DR/CR and shields and being hit only on 6s. I used the two in a recent game and it was massively effective. I've tried this tactic twice since you suggested it and... it works!! Now the Illustrious has a place in my fleet! Thanks!! And, with the suggestion of @Nazduruk_Bugzappa it can be even more interesting. I hope I find a tactic to use effectively the Eagle!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazduruk_Bugzappa Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 That's the thing that a lot of players still can't get their heads around. Some models are better than the sum of their parts, when used together McKinstry and S.Mike 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonmoa Posted July 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2017 20 hours ago, Nazduruk_Bugzappa said: That's the thing that a lot of players still can't get their heads around. Some models are better than the sum of their parts, when used together Hahaha You are rigth. Now, I'm looking forward to discovering the point of the Eagle and the Hawks (saparately or setting up the prince Squadron). Any idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
level9red Posted July 30, 2017 Report Share Posted July 30, 2017 I like the Illustrious, and have used it with a chanura a while back when I was new to the game, but also with a majest, to help them keep up in some Ironclad scenarios. I was hopelessly out activated buy some French, largely as a result of the dreadnaught, and it didn't go well, I continued to use the Illustrious as a safe place for a commodore and a late game boarder, I'll look into pairing it with the chanuara again sometime, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushpop Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 On 7/27/2017 at 9:21 PM, Gonmoa said: I've tried this tactic twice since you suggested it and... it works!! Now the Illustrious has a place in my fleet! Thanks!! And, with the suggestion of @Nazduruk_Bugzappa it can be even more interesting. I hope I find a tactic to use effectively the Eagle!! On 7/26/2017 at 8:19 AM, Lurking Vanguard said: I used to think the Illustrious was a waste of points in 2.0. Too expensive with too little firepower. But in 2.5 it's suddenly become (probably by accident) very useful, especially paired with the Magnate 2. Now it can go stratospheric (the guns were rubbish anyway so no loss), moving slowly across the board dropping a barrier of mines (just as good from stratospheric), replacing SAS as they die and potentially area bombing anyone navigating through the mines, trying to close with your Magnate. All of this while being nigh on impregnable due to High DR/CR and shields and being hit only on 6s. I used the two in a recent game and it was massively effective. I think the Tourbillion is still better but difference is less than it used to be as it doesn't have mines, so loses more by going high. You can't rearm/rebuild from stratospheric. SAS can never fly that high. You would have to move to ddown to a level where SAS can fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazduruk_Bugzappa Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 49 minutes ago, Pushpop said: You can't rearm/rebuild from stratospheric. SAS can never fly that high. You would have to move to ddown to a level where SAS can fly. There is no rule ANYWHERE in the rules that says you must drop out of Stratospheric to perform Carrier Actions. Also, if you had to move your carrier to a height level that SAS can fly, all of your Naval models would also be unable to perform Carrier Actions, as SAS only occupy the Flying height level. The only models currently restricted by height levels are those that have specific notes written in their profiles. McKinstry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erloas Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 While logically it would make sense that SAS have to actually get to the carrier to rearm on it, there isn't actually anything in the rulebook stating such. There are no height restrictions on carrier actions. And if that were the case you wouldn't be able to do SAS at Obscured either, because SAS can't enter Obscured, but that was common in 2.0 before most carriers could enter stratospheric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleeping_squirrel Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 I agree with Nazduruk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
