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Retired ships?

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So after a bad seller on Ebay with a very innacurate description, I have a fully painted group of FSA ships completely lacking in turrets and drop ons, and am short of a pair of Lexingtons.

I can order more drop ons, no worries there, but I see the Lexington is not available from the shop. 

I am wondering if this is the way of things now?  Will other ships begin to vanish as well? 

Obviously Ebay is not reliable in obtaining replacements, and I dont think that I have the crafting skills to create my own from scratch.

Anyone have some solid info on this?

 

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Ebay is usually reliable, just stick to Stores and 1.0 box sets- that's what I do.  Also, email SG and ask about the Lexingtons.  I wanted to get some more Black Wolf SAS, but they aren't on the store- I emailed SG and they quoted me a price and after I gave them a quantity, all I had to do was pay through Paypal.  They are extremely helpful!

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41 minutes ago, Benchpresser said:

Ebay is usually reliable, just stick to Stores and 1.0 box sets- that's what I do.  Also, email SG and ask about the Lexingtons.  I wanted to get some more Black Wolf SAS, but they aren't on the store- I emailed SG and they quoted me a price and after I gave them a quantity, all I had to do was pay through Paypal.  They are extremely helpful!

Thanks BP,  I emailed Lizzie yesterday so I hope to hear some good news Monday or so.

I have been really lucky with Ebay up till now so I am not too upset, just won't buy from that seller again. I do hate that I will have to spend around $35 plus shipping, but thems the breaks. 

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There are a lot of models that, due to age have seen a real hit in casting quality for thier molds. Additionally, as expected, some of the oldest models naturally have an aesthetic and designs that, while in keeping with thier Nations elements, are a bit dated and less detailed (obviously!). Combine all that, with the fact that the scale is a bit off on most of them too! 

Its all a big sign that something has to be done!

The process of going through aged models and giving them an update is coming. That will mean that some older models will go out of production and sale via store. I cannot make a comment about when it will be for some, as the store isn't my area of expertise! BUT I can tell you that the idea isn't to murder off anything! But rather evolve it and improve it, both in looks and operational value, but more importantly, from a design and production specifics! See what we did with that new Metzger ausf-B MK2? Looks pretty doesn't it! 

(The rules are really good too!)

Going to keep the momentum going. Have lots to work with. The light cruisers are one of those. I have designs in the tubes for new FSA PE and even a KoB one sitting on my laptop just waiting for the right momment to strike.

Hope that helps!

-Mike

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10 hours ago, Spartan Mike said:

There are a lot of models that, due to age have seen a real hit in casting quality for thier molds. Additionally, as expected, some of the oldest models naturally have an aesthetic and designs that, while in keeping with thier Nations elements, are a bit dated and less detailed (obviously!). Combine all that, with the fact that the scale is a bit off on most of them too! 

Its all a big sign that something has to be done!

The process of going through aged models and giving them an update is coming. That will mean that some older models will go out of production and sale via store. I cannot make a comment about when it will be for some, as the store isn't my area of expertise! BUT I can tell you that the idea isn't to murder off anything! But rather evolve it and improve it, both in looks and operational value, but more importantly, from a design and production specifics! See what we did with that new Metzger ausf-B MK2? Looks pretty doesn't it! 

(The rules are really good too!)

Going to keep the momentum going. Have lots to work with. The light cruisers are one of those. I have designs in the tubes for new FSA PE and even a KoB one sitting on my laptop just waiting for the right momment to strike.

Hope that helps!

-Mike

Thank you that helps a lot!

i really appreciate your quick responsiveness.

I will resist the urge to ask for time lines and such,  since I have plenty more to paint anyway. 

I am glad to know that my ships aren't dead, just aging.  I actually like the concept of several ship "generations" all in service at once, very realistic, 

After all, I am using Uncharted Seas ships to fill in for our equivalent of Pre-Dreadnoughts, what I called "Pre-Sturginium" ships.  this makes for some really interesting scenarios.  

 

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Personally, I like the way Firestorm Armada handles older versions. For the people who like to build their armies along with a narrative, you can just designate a collection of upgrades/hardpoints to represent a specific model.

As in DW each model has its own specific rules, and trying to find certain older models is quite hard, how are you planning on handling this for the future? Will you go the Firestorm Armada way, of are you planning to update/redesign/re-release the old models as new ones using the same rules?

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How are you going to handle the old battleships?  The newer versions with multiple marks seem to make the old battleships obsolet.  I mainly play PE and would never take the Emperor over the mark 1 or mark 2 Eider.  In the current orbats the only advantages the Emperor has over the Eider is cr 11 instead of 10 and more weapons.  With the exception of the main turrets the ordnance weapons are weaker on the Emperor compared the the Eider mark 1.  Obviously the mark 2 Eider is weaker since it has speerscheuders.  

I would like to have a reason to take the Emperor.  Could you make it as good as the Eider but different?

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Hi

Is there a list of Discontinued Models? including mk1 / old style models?

I mostly collect rather than play and am aiming in the long, long term to have full squadrons of each model.

So what do I need to start looking for before it becomes unobtainable?

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I just have my 5cents...

Allow 'old' ships to be played as the new stats.

For example, from the EoBS, the Sokutsu versus the Yokai MK 1.  In stats the Yokai MK1 seems far more enjoyable to play with than the Sokutsu. So let the old Sokutsu model be played as Yokai MKI.

 

 

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Some of the ships transfer straight over, and some don't.

The Independence has a "close enough" loadout to a mk1 Mississippi (you just lose the kinetic option)

The Sokotsu can work straight up as a mk1 Yokai

The Emperor needs its own rules, as it has normal turrets, but Tesla broadsides  (the "normal" broadsides are exactly the same guns as the Arminius/Saxony Tesla guns)

The Ruler's guardian option makes it just different enough to the mk1 Magnate.

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19 hours ago, Jsiegel1983 said:

How are you going to handle the old battleships?  The newer versions with multiple marks seem to make the old battleships obsolet.  I mainly play PE and would never take the Emperor over the mark 1 or mark 2 Eider.  In the current orbats the only advantages the Emperor has over the Eider is cr 11 instead of 10 and more weapons.  With the exception of the main turrets the ordnance weapons are weaker on the Emperor compared the the Eider mark 1.  Obviously the mark 2 Eider is weaker since it has speerscheuders.  

I would like to have a reason to take the Emperor.  Could you make it as good as the Eider but different?

On my side, there is no reason outside of an aggressive, in your face boarding list to take an Independence over the Mississippi Mk. 1 (id even argue the Liberty as well). 

 

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8 hours ago, Lostaris said:

It is kinda the same with the Russian ships with turrets, why take them when you can bring the newer ships with mortars and fixed fore guns?

Is it? I dont have their stats to hand for comparison, but turrets add a lot of flexibility in firing and moving options - particularly for a boarding faction like RC.

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My thoughts on older models:

 

1) If you attempt to emulate the real world with new editions of ships being released ontop of older editions. So you end up with MK1 MK2 etc... alongside a release system that will only retail sell the latest edition you set yourself up for a nightmare.

a) Older variations kept alongside current easily doubles the size of each faction in terms of model count and balance. This means that you can easily run the risk that current edition ships are always going to be better or at least more up to date with the rules. This means that your older players who have legacy models are being punished for earlier support because their older models are now not as good as the new ones. Forcing players to buy new sculpts by the rules.

b ) Newer players are punished if the older units are kept more current with updated stats as they will be unable to buy those older models as new models from retail outlets/online. They'd only be able to get them second-hand. As such you'd be punishing newer players or older fans moving to new factions if old models are kept more in line with current.

As such either approach fails in one respect or the other. Ontop of that you'd have an ever expanding complexity of balance to contend with that would fast make the task impossible or impractical. 

 

2) In my  view the best approach is to have a straight new model sculpt approach. Retire old sculpts commercially and replace them with new ones; but allow players to retain use of the old sculpts or the new for the same model. A MK1 battleship is thus always valid through the series even when you've released a MK5 or so in the future. The old model still counts and counts as the very same ship in the game. Sure by that point its weapons might have changed so players will be encouraged to move to the new sculpts but they are not forced to do so.

Furthermore you keep thing simple as edition changes of sculpts don't add more "units" to the faction; they just straight up replace. This also keeps things simple for new and old players as it means they don't have to memorise a huge collection of legacy models which are no longer promoted nor sold

 

3) From Spartan's end you could also go one step further in helping players, especially new players, into the game. You can do this by producing a simple visual guide to each faction showing the history of models for each unit type visually. So that players get a rendering of a the MK1, MK2, Mk3 etc.. next to each other. They can then easily tell which edition is current; which models are what if they are buying from other retail stores that might be holding old stock. 

 

 

The approach of straight up new sculpts is what most model companies do; they release a new sculpt and the old is retired. The retired remains totally valid with the same stats as the new in the game terms. They focus on new units entirely to expand army size and diversity. Thus putting all players on the same level with each other with what they can currently buy retail.

You can also retire models from the formal range entirely. Games Workshop has done this many times with models, however its never a popular choice and if possible its best to avoid it

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