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well the new orbat has dropped and basically nothing changed at all for the FSA, this is a shame as it would have been a perfect time to do something with the independence which is even more obviously obsolete with it sharing the same document as the Mississippi mk1. 

so, sounds like they want some feedback so going to throw my 2 cents in :)

the providence - love the model, love the rules. the engine failure effect is a nice rider but situational. I like that it really feels like a heavy monitor instead of a battleship with a big gun. it's a shame that little plane catapult can't be a spotter for it though as that was clearly the intention, left field suggestion but putting it out there. drop the wing launcher and give it a rule that it can indirect fire without line of sight, to represnt it having it's own dedicated spotter plane. I don't thing it would be imbalanced as anyone who takes it will likely have spotters about anyway.

 

calico light carrier - not a lot to say, does what it says on the tin. I like the volley gun broadsides as they synergise well with the defensive volley guns on some of the larger ships, and the rockets can also add a decent number of dice to a linked volley. am expecting these to pop up next to heavy warships instead of their own squadron. 17 ad rb3 torps on the enterprise looks nice.

 

animus assault sub - I don't like these, great concept and renders, but they don't pack enough punch. I think they need 3 AP each and also need aquatic assault. otherwise they won't be able to really achieve much against anything that isn't crippled. with cr4 a defensive cc burst will likely kill one, then you have 6 AP to fight through ack ack and enemy AP. 

concussive munitions doesn't seem useful as if they surface they are dead and they can't assault what they shoot so no point stripping AP. with their guns, sharp shooters would be a better fit for the purpose.

 

all in all, the FSA list was always ok but not amazing, would have been nice to have a couple more toys, as the ships are all very similar just different sizes. a lot of our opponents are getting new gadgets to help them but not the FSA. i think the nerf to punishing gunnery is unfortunate and reduces the power of our gunline, so it's a shame we didn't get anything to compensate.

 

also, not gonna happen but barrage instead of pinpoint on our rockets please :) we don't get any torps so miss out on that lovely shield ignoring fun.

 

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+1 to Barrage rockets. I always liked the idea of rockets, but it's so deceitful looking at the rocket AD spread for a given model, only to realise that whatever it shoots at gets AA against them first off (most big models have good AA, and most smaller models in a squadron can pool their AA together), and then shields may also come into effect. For instance, good luck against either the French or the Antarcticans.

I'd like to see a "Faster Rockets" MAR, actually. Same effect as the torps. And it makes more sense to me - rockets DO move very fast, so a nation that specialises in them ought to be expected to improve their combat effectiveness somehow. And what better tribute to the myth of The Confederate Rocket?? ;-)

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I think the Mississippi Mk 2 is the one that really puts the Independence to shame.

Turrets firing to the side they both have the exact same firepower except Mississippi doesn't have RB 4. But Fore firing the Mississippi has essentially the same firepower as the Independence gets to the side while it still has the rear guns to shoot at something else. The turrets on the Mississippi are also Volley Guns with Hunter. It also has both a kinetic generator and shield(3), and 7" Mv, and better broadsides, and almost the same boarding power. All for the same price.

 

I really like the Providence. I couldn't care less about it when I first saw it but I really feel drawn to how it would work in my fleet. 

I'm also really glad the Calico's are here.

 

The part I'm really annoyed at is the Armored forces really don't seem to be updated at all. I hope that the other forces were seriously nerfed because there's no way the FSA Armored forces could fight the KoB or PE.

The Washington and Philadelphia are another one of the worst matchups. Essentially the same price but the Washington is worse in every way except 1" faster.

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3 hours ago, roadkizzle said:

I think the Mississippi Mk 2 is the one that really puts the Independence to shame

the mk2 is awesome but I think the problem with the independence versus mk1 is that they are basically the same ship doing the same job but the Mississippi does it better for the same price.

 

I have just realised that the Mississippi has gained barrage on its rockets!! that's cool, now let's spread that around to other ships :)

 

also +1 for faster rockets mar

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, slimeball said:

I have just realised that the Mississippi has gained barrage on its rockets!! that's cool, now let's spread that around to other ships :)

Saw that, and cannot for the life of me understand why more of the FSA ships don't have that. (I'd still prefer Fast Rockets to barrage, tho :-)

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13 minutes ago, Bazlord said:

Saw that, and cannot for the life of me understand why more of the FSA ships don't have that. (I'd still prefer Fast Rockets to barrage, tho :-)

My guess is that we will get more once the final version is in with all the changes. This is just a first version with just the 2.0 stats with the 2.5 rules.

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Hmm, 180 points for a Savannah. That lost its Target Painter? Can that be right? Seems like FSA is being punished. I am sure that's not the case but that is how it feels.

I can't imagine the justification for that. Three more SAW than a Super Fortress carrier which is 15 to 30 points cheaper and has much better weapons  seems unjustifiable. The Tourbillon went up to 180, but that is basically a BB with an air wing- the Savannah is most emphatically not. SAS are a clumsy weapon and as bombers are one attack every two turn and often three turns.  A carrier with two 4 SAS, which CAN"T fly CAP is a huge nerf on a 5/4 combo. With all that they increased the cost? Savannah can't get more guns, but it desperately needs something to justify this huge cost increase- It is now a points liability to the FSA and will be mothballed.

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Hmm, dunno. Stratospheric Savannah is very strong with the new carrier rules. Basically you can launch 3 squadrons of 4 bombers each round as long as you have enough squadrons that die every round. Also they don't get an activation marker. I played a 2.5 game a few weeks ago and the bombers were very effective.

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i was going to say, real shame on the target painter, but at least with rubbish guns and area bombardment, stratospheric is a no-brainer.

I need to reread the carrier rules. am very vague on the changes. how does it launch 3x4 with carrier 9?

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Rebuilding only costs 3 carrier points. If for example both SAS from the Savannah and a SAS from Local Air Support are wiped out you can rebuild 3 squadrons in 1 round and immediately activate them.

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7 hours ago, slimeball said:

the mk2 is awesome but I think the problem with the independence versus mk1 is that they are basically the same ship doing the same job but the Mississippi does it better for the same price.

 

I have just realised that the Mississippi has gained barrage on its rockets!! that's cool, now let's spread that around to other ships :)

 

also +1 for faster rockets mar

 

 

 

Are Volley Guns still redoubtable?

It is true that the Mk 1 is a better gunship all around than the Independence. But people will say that the Independence is almost as good of a gunship but is also a boarding threat meaning enemies may not want to be close. They may say it's a double threat.

 

The Mk 2 on the other hand is a better gunship than the Independence with equal firepower that doesn't care whether the target is in front or to the side. It is tougher, better at repositioning, it has a usable broadside. 

But while it's a better gunship than the Independence it's also a better aggressive boarding ship. It's faster. It gets a lot more firepower while advancing. It's tougher.

The Mk 2 is hands above the Independence in EVERY way. The Mk 1 is better at one role but is not as flexible.

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As things stand at the moment, and I understand improvements are fluid, the Independence is another endangered species. The Mississippi just relegates it to shelf duty as there is simply no reason to take it over one of the Mississippi marks.

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10 hours ago, Illidar said:

Also we need to remember to make game logs and report them to spartan and maybe try and get them to iron out our issues with the orbats.  I feel that the Savannah is overpointed in comparison to the Illustrious

Between the release of DW 2.0 and DL 2.0 I played a lot of test games with my FSA and created battle reports to try and illustrate and get some data for what I was seeing. It never seemed that anyone even looked at them.

The designers seemed satisfied with how their FSA fleet performed and have never seemed to acknowledge anything else.

The firepower on the 2.0 ships and Punishing Gunnery really pulled the fleet along... But I really did not want to purchase my ships+1 so Punishing Gunnery really never seemed as amazing when I was relying on the meager firepower of the Independence and Lexingtons.

I really don't want to invest the time in playing test games just to get blown off again.

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I'd like to see the Barrage rockets standard on the models. It's means just one round of active defense and it makes them feel unique to other rockets considering how prevalent they are on our models. I also don't see why the points hike was so high for the Savannah. I love the model and I could see *maybe* another 10 points (I've had good experiences with the model) but I don't understand why we had to lose the target painter option when they got stronger (+3 instead of +4).

I really would like to see the Calico in a unit of Georgetown Cruisers with rockets (16 dice in a barrage) which would be good for that Battle Cruiser hunting (too small for massed AA and can't get the aid of a unit).

I'm basically never taking the Independence over the Mississippi, or the Lexingtons over the Georgetowns. Light cruisers are an awkward size it feels (for most) and the new Battleships are just plain better. I don't see them being updated though, they're discontinued units and I'm just glad we still have rules for them to be honest. Wish I didn't have 2 Independence BS's though...

As for the Monitor, I love it. It's a really good anti-light large vessel and its filling a niche I don't think FSA had anything equivalent to. I like seeing special rules like they have for it. It creates character.

Edited by Dreamshift

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21 hours ago, roadkizzle said:

Just let the Independence be used as a Mississippi Mk1 then there's no chance of one being relegated to the shelf. They have the same load out. 

That is pretty much what Spartan said at some point, although the Mississippi loses the aft volley guns.  I guess both sets of guns were moved to the front to make a heavy.

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On 2017-6-21 at 2:49 PM, NaH2PO4aq said:

Rebuilding only costs 3 carrier points. If for example both SAS from the Savannah and a SAS from Local Air Support are wiped out you can rebuild 3 squadrons in 1 round and immediately activate them.

For Real?  I mean I haven't looked to in depth into new SAS rules but I always thought they'd restricted it to "A Carrier can only support a maximum number of Squadrons at one time, this is indicated in the profile"

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One thing I have seen from reading the orbats/2.5 rules is that our special nation rule ie take aim and deadeye gunnery are now once per game and deadeye means you could use your ability only to get no extra damage as its D3-1 which i think is more than a little **** for a once per game effect

 

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