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1 hour ago, Drastab said:

That is pretty much what Spartan said at some point, although the Mississippi loses the aft volley guns.  I guess both sets of guns were moved to the front to make a heavy.

I'll take that. The Lexington's had vestigial Fore Guns for so long I'll trade the Independence's rear guns for usable stats.

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I really dislike the fact that the national flavour abilities have been basically turned into a default setting on the warlord traits table. punishing gunnery was nasty but it was really flavourful, the FSA don't have all the tricks and toys that other nations have, we rely on barrages of massive artillery shells to do the job.

here is a suggestion, I know it's an unusual one, but almost nobody uses sturginium ammo, only the covenant have access to it, and they usually swap out their guns for energy weapons.

Maybe we could steal that as one of our flavours, everyone else is moving along technologically so seems fair that we do and the yanks in real life do like their sturginium (depleted uranium) shells, I wish this could be a thing @Spartan Mike

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There are more changes being made to all of the Great 7 nations. A lot of that will be done with input and community testing. 

And the bulk of the changes (aside from raw statistical ones) will actually be modifications to the Page-One of each nations Orbat. Including mars and Commodores and generators etc.

Lots of good things planned to really open up the diversity and set things in a good place.

-Mike

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I have lost two of 2 so far - but both were close, and the second was very much my fault. 

 

I used:

Miss. Mk2 with attached Calico (kinetic)

4 Guilfords

4 Guilfords

3 Princetons (Kinetic)

2 Calicos (rockets)

Annapolis (shields) with Calico (Rockets)

5 Reveres.

 

The second game I used:

Mississippi Mk2 with 2 Springfield 

4 Guilford (pinpoint) plus Calico (rockets)

5 Corvettes

Annapolis (shield) plus Calico (rockets)

2 Calico (rockets)

Providence 

Coastal Patrol Squadron (Pinpoint on Guilfords, Shield on Princeton) - although I forgot I had paid fpr the shield and played the game with a Kinetic instead (which would have been/was better, actually)

 

I wrote those in the order I selected them, so you can see a bit of the thought process. Calico is better as an attachment than a Squadron, I feel. Putting it with destroyers was awesome - a lot of dice and a formidable broadside deters smalls hunting me, or (if i had faced any) bombers, given the Volley Guns.

Providence did ok, in the sense that it had few good targets, and I rolled below average. It certainly warrants another go, but failed to impress either.

Attaching a Calico to Annapolis works ok, but the main benefit is that it again deters aircraft or boarders. I'd rather it could have an escort or two, but it doesn't matter. 

 

If Springfield gets Sharpshooters 2 or better I will take them again, but they added nothing.

I was unimpressed with Coastal Patrol. If the Princeton had a 'raised' gun (like the model, arguably) that could fire over smalls, this squadron would be immeasurably improved.

Not being compelled to take Dead Eye Gunnery when your Commodore is on a Miss Mk2 is great - rolling it anyway, less so.

 

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On 6/21/2017 at 9:12 AM, NaH2PO4aq said:

Hmm, dunno. Stratospheric Savannah is very strong with the new carrier rules. Basically you can launch 3 squadrons of 4 bombers each round as long as you have enough squadrons that die every round. Also they don't get an activation marker. I played a 2.5 game a few weeks ago and the bombers were very effective.

Stratospheric is same for everyone. Compare to the other Superforts. The KoB Super fortress went Down 10 points. Stratospheric kills your bombing, so down you come, without shields or retardant Armor or Ablative Armor or any gun other than broadsides. If your going to do that but stay back, get the the same SAS for 125 with the Saratoga. 

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28 minutes ago, CDR_G said:

Stratospheric is same for everyone. Compare to the other Superforts. The KoB Super fortress went Down 10 points. Stratospheric kills your bombing, so down you come, without shields or retardant Armor or Ablative Armor or any gun other than broadsides. If your going to do that but stay back, get the the same SAS for 125 with the Saratoga. 

Main advantage I can see is that Savannah can 'hide' in the middle of the table, making it easier to rearm squadrons that dont die - and increasing threat radius of new ones.

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3 hours ago, CDR_G said:

Stratospheric is same for everyone. Compare to the other Superforts. The KoB Super fortress went Down 10 points. Stratospheric kills your bombing, so down you come, without shields or retardant Armor or Ablative Armor or any gun other than broadsides. If your going to do that but stay back, get the the same SAS for 125 with the Saratoga. 

Savannah has incredible area of effect bombardment because it has such a high number of AD on the bombs which can be used without penalty from Stratospheric (indiscriminate attack). Also Savannah is the only carrier (9) Skyfortress (I think).

I also don't really like it that it is 180 points now, it is one of my favourite units. However it is still very strong and I think the cost is fair. Before 2.5 I took it in a lot of my games and it was very hard to kill, in something like 20 games it was only brought down once. Now it is even stronger with the new rules. 

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On 22/06/2017 at 4:53 PM, Illidar said:

for a once per game i was hoping for a D3+1 at least

I forgot to reply to this - don't forget subcommanders. It is possible to extend a network of this ability, albeit some may consider it unsporting.

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Have the people who read the Target Painter rules realized that the Target Painter(Primary) on the Savannah was going to be useless if it remained?  Target Painters now only work for a single activation.  Since the Savannah does not have Primary weapons it has no use of the painter for them.

Changing it to Rockets would have been my choice but oh well.

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2 hours ago, Veldrain said:

Have the people who read the Target Painter rules realized that the Target Painter(Primary) on the Savannah was going to be useless if it remained?  Target Painters now only work for a single activation.  Since the Savannah does not have Primary weapons it has no use of the painter for them.

Changing it to Rockets would have been my choice but oh well.

There was postings from one of the Spartans indicating that some platforms would be able to use their Target Painter for other units outside their squadron. Like it used to be in 2.0. THAT did not happen. Instead, we got a price increase- Amazing! Where did this come from? I do not recall anyone stating the Savanah was somehow OP. It can't be that all Superforts are going to be similarly priced- because some are 30 points cheaper. What The HELL is going on?

As far as the Savanah being tough- so what! Its not any tougher now. Others of similar toughness or better and ARE Cheaper! It didn't need to be adjusted. Again compare to the other Superforts. THEY have better defense AND better weapons. The extra 3 SAS and 9 carrier points vs 1 x 5 SAS (note the 5 SAW SAS is a significant advantage for a SAS) and 8 carrier points DO NOT warrant an increase especially after losing the TP capability and when COMPARED to the other Super Fortesses. The Tourbillon is hugely better, The Others have better weapons- by far AND better defense.

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@CDR_G Generator considerations in response to this glaring concern are being made (see every single thread that shares this audacious ranting!)

The point cost increase was a consideration made by the powers that be, to aid in response to their ability to hide in stratospheric ranges for flying carriers. I am not convinced by the blanket appraoch and feel that a larger evaluation is needed. Some need a large kick up in points based on power, some might have needed none.

 Hence why we will be creating an updated test team and revisit the power levels and balance for everything in the range. As numerous posts in a multiple areas of this forum have eluded to!

-Mike

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That's about all I could expect.

Odd though, Stratospheric is the same for all. It opens a new level to fighting. The Valley, B-72 and PBY-2 squadrons have a bright future shooting two RB 3 -9AD rocket attacks from within Stratospheric (The second facing no AA) with some having air hunter and Pin Point or piercing. Think about the largely defensively Savannah in that light. Those broadside look big, but they decrease fast with damage and are hard to use. You have to trade off advancing the Savanah, which has about the worst movement in the game or unmask the broadside, making the bombing threat out of position and likely out of the battle. I have really only seen the Savannah broadside used rarely and then after taking a beating- that may be circumstancial.

 Stratospheric availability will cause changes but it won't be the haven (pun intended) that people seem to think it will be. It will give a mission to the Voltaire, (Sadly the Pascals are still struggling to pay for their cost. Rockets as a close-in weapons? I have yet to take them and I really WANT to. they're just not very good.) The Medium bombers are even more valuable now. Forces will have include a Stratospheric air hunter in there OOBs, or risk Death from Above.

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Spartan Niel has rescinded his curfew.  So far FSA hasn't changed except to slight loss of game wide MARs.  My concern for the once proud (and considered OP) nation, what new stuff are we getting, or is it just same stuff, new skin?  At the end of the day (as is now) it's just a game/hobby we really enjoy.  I prefer 2.0 over 2.5, cause I'm familiar with it, and I'm slow to change.  @Spartan Mike and @Spartan Josh, keep your chin up, you can't truly improve without conflict, and we're the conflict forcing the game forward.  If these changes are deal breakers for staying with the game, y'all might wanna rethink why you're playing.

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As someone who has used the Savannah repeatedly over San Francisco and Saratoga, I've only been able to use the TP gen successfully once.  But the broadside has been great hitting smalls that are outside bomb range.  @CDR_G, I do agree the point increase was unnecessary, next they'll probably increase the Saratoga to 175, but remember, we're all still testing the new rules.  Do some games, record data, post/send to the authorities, and if still nothing happens, meh, you did your part.

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@Bazlord LOL I don't think the community of Spartan Fans truly understands the degree of foolish dedication I have to my charge. No time for BS! Work on stats, design, write, revise and communicate. The loyal fans deserve a good game and until I am absolutely confident in all aspects, sleep and leisure can wait! ;)

@hyde1352 precisely. Lots of community reaction and input is to be evaluated and processed. Stuff is happening, lots more than the greater "public" is aware of! The recent announcement of two new nations and a new testing team is just one of many exciting evolution for Dystopian Wars and our efforts at process and progress!

-Mike

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2 hours ago, Spartan Mike said:

@Bazlord LOL I don't think the community of Spartan Fans truly understands the degree of foolish dedication I have to my charge. No time for BS! Work on stats, design, write, revise and communicate. The loyal fans deserve a good game and until I am absolutely confident in all aspects, sleep and leisure can wait! ;)

@hyde1352

Speaking as someone who got Chronic Fatigue Syndrome after letting job stress get a bit too much, DON'T DO IT!!!

Okay - do it for the Covenant ORBAT - but then DON'T DO IT ANYMORE!! Make sure you get in a "playtest" every now and then as well. Let me live with the illusion that all you career game designer-types just drink coffee and play all day ;-)

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4 hours ago, hyde1352 said:

Spartan Niel has rescinded his curfew.  So far FSA hasn't changed except to slight loss of game wide MARs.  My concern for the once proud (and considered OP) nation, what new stuff are we getting, or is it just same stuff, new skin?  At the end of the day (as is now) it's just a game/hobby we really enjoy.  I prefer 2.0 over 2.5, cause I'm familiar with it, and I'm slow to change.  @Spartan Mike and @Spartan Josh, keep your chin up, you can't truly improve without conflict, and we're the conflict forcing the game forward.  If these changes are deal breakers for staying with the game, y'all might wanna rethink why you're playing.

For my 0.02, FSA has changed a lot, entirely due to the Calico. No longer do I look at a list and ask how many Georgetowns can I reasonably field.

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@Bazlord Coffee is indeed a constant, coupled with wonderfully toxic energy drinks...and fits of mania!

Its not all salt-mines! Nobody ever said there wasn't ample test games! Rapid and furious as they may be! ;) 

@Elessar That's a good thing I hope? They are quite wonderful little bastards! But please do know, there are awesome changes in the works for the whole of the FSA and well... every other nation too! No Vessel Left Behind!

-Mike

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3 minutes ago, Spartan Mike said:

@Bazlord Coffee is indeed a constant, coupled with wonderfully toxic energy drinks...and fits of mania!

Its not all salt-mines! Nobody ever said there wasn't ample test games! Rapid and furious as they may be! ;) 

@Elessar That's a good thing I hope? They are quite wonderful little bastards! But please do know, there are awesome changes in the works for the whole of the FSA and well... every other nation too! No Vessel Left Behind!

-Mike

Oh, it is a good thing. How many Calico come in the KS box? I might need more...

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4 minutes ago, hyde1352 said:

 

1 large providence, 2 calico, and I believe 4 Animus so you and three friends can be assassin's.

Thanks @hyde1352 so now I just need another 2 Calico...or three... maybe 4 to be safe...

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