Jump to content
SharpNz

2.5 height bands?

Recommended Posts

I'm new to dystonian wars and have just started playing.

One of the rules I'm having a hard time getting my head around is the high bands. Its kind of poorly worded well I find it hard to understand.

So the band the firing models is in had no affect on the dice results needed to hit only what height band the model being targeted is at.

So a battleship shooting a flyer in obscured would need 5,6 and stratospheric would only be able to hit 6. And can only fire if the flyer is in RB 2 or more?

So is there anything from stopping me deploying my imperium into
obscured and then moving into stratospheric? I don't see any reason not todo this as far as i can tell it wont impact its carrier actions nor negatively hurt its AD or Boarding actions. If i have this wrong please help clarify what I'm missing(I'm guessing its not meant to go stratospheric and this will be covered in the new model rules for 2.5 when they come out.)

I'm also unsure on subs is there any reason a Vanguard should not move to deep diving It can still use its torpedoes vs anything and it will hit based on what height band the model is at? so a vanguard  at deep diving shooting a battleship will be 4,
5,6 but the battleship shooting back will be half AD and need 6's?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The to-hit numbers are the highest that either model is at. So stratospheric firing at surface would need 6s too. As would stratospheric firing at another stratospheric.

And any flyer that is medium or larger can go stratospheric.

Boarding can only go one height level by default (a very few models can go father) so flying could board surface or obscured but stratospheric can only board obscured.

Short version is that stratospheric is mostly a defensive move. You will be hard to kill there but you won't be doing all that much either. Using it to close to RB1 then going down is a common tactic. Usually though while you can get RB1 of your primary target there will be plenty of enemies in RB2 to shoot back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a kink in the Torpedo LoS/obstruction rules to be aware of:

"• When Torpedo Ordnance from any Height Level targets a Model occupying the Surface Height Level, any intervening Models on the Surface Height Level are always Obstructing Models for determining Line of Sight, regardless of their Size.

• Torpedo Ordnance from any Height Level targeted Models occupying the Diving Height Band draw Line of Sight as normal."

I'm not really sure what that last bit means, but i think it's this: if the enemy battleship (BB) is firing Torpedoes at your Vanguard, and let's say one of your BBs is in between them, then the enemy Torp will go underneath your BB and have LoS to the Vanguard.

The Torps that your Vanguard fires at the enemy BB, however, will track along the surface, and will be obstructed by your own BB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Bazlord said:

There's a kink in the Torpedo LoS/obstruction rules to be aware of:

"• When Torpedo Ordnance from any Height Level targets a Model occupying the Surface Height Level, any intervening Models on the Surface Height Level are always Obstructing Models for determining Line of Sight, regardless of their Size.

• Torpedo Ordnance from any Height Level targeted Models occupying the Diving Height Band draw Line of Sight as normal."

I'm not really sure what that last bit means, but i think it's this: if the enemy battleship (BB) is firing Torpedoes at your Vanguard, and let's say one of your BBs is in between them, then the enemy Torp will go underneath your BB and have LoS to the Vanguard.

The Torps that your Vanguard fires at the enemy BB, however, will track along the surface, and will be obstructed by your own BB.

It was like that in 2.0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are a lot of exceptions to that rule.  Even two surface models with something between might not be able to depending on the type of weapon being shot from each ship as they all have different versions of LOS (primary, secondary, tertiary).  And of course aircraft with torpedoes were always going to be a one-way thing.  And of course any flying ship vs a surface at RB1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see what you mean, Drastab, about LoS reciprocity between models shooting at each other with the exact same weapons system, so yeah - it so appears that Torpedoes can break that, when fired at a model in the Diving Height band.

I guess Indirect Fire also has the potential to be non-reciprocal between two similarly armed opponents (one with a Spotter, the other without), if we're going for completeness here. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, CDR_G said:

Ahh, I see it now. Yeah that needs clarity Would surface models block torpedoes targeting a submerged model.

 

No, intervening models when targeting diving height bands are ignored 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correct to me if I'm mistaken. As a summary:

Targeting a submerged model from a boat on the surface:

1º.- Using tordoes, you impact with 5 o 6. Any model in the way doesn't block the LoS.

2º.- Using gunnery or cc, you impact with 5 or 6 but havilg the amount of dices.

 

Targeting a submerged model from another submerged model:

1º.- You only can target it with torpedoes or cc, and you get an impact with 5 or 6.  Any model in the way doesn't block the LoS

 

Targeting a boat on the surface from a submerged model:

1º.- You only can use torpedoes and you get an impact with 5 or 6. Any model in the way blocks the LoS.

 

In all the cases, if the submerged model is using deep diving, you need a 6 to get an impact.

 

What about if a deep diving model target a submerged model? Does it need 5-6 or just 6? And qhat about on the contrary (submerged model against deep diving model)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shots at a model in deep diving, or from a model in deep diving are always 6s (unless you have things like hunter, target painter, etc).  The to-hit number is always the highest/worst for the height band of either the shooter or the target.  But it always caps out at 6, if you happen to have something in stratospheric shooting at something in deep diving it is still 6s to hit.

(note, all the 6s should be red, just didn't format them)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Nicholas said:

Just to add on, if you somehow end up in a situation needing 7s to hit, then all RED dice is downgraded to BLUE dice.

Can you give me an example? How is possible to need a 7?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For reasons why torpedoes work that way in game :

Torpedoes are given a set buoyancy before being fired, so they would travel up or down to the target height (obviously with a lot of forward trajectory), then along that level til they hit their target.

Some newer torpedoes can be directionally controlled (in the real world), usually by some form of target lock/seeking sensors, but for DW tech, they go to target depth 1st, then horizontal trajectory till they hit something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/14/2017 at 7:35 PM, Erloas said:

The to-hit numbers are the highest that either model is at. So stratospheric firing at surface would need 6s too. As would stratospheric firing at another stratospheric.

I know this was a whole ago, but I thought I would throw this out there as I have seen it played multiple ways.

"The Basic ‘To Hit’ value depends on the Height Level the Target or Firer is occupying. If they are not at the same Height Level, use whichever ‘To Hit’ value is most beneficial for the Target." - Pg 127, Section C-4, 2a.

If you shoot at a target on the same height lvl, you have no penalty on your 'to-hit' number. You may still have bonuses and penalties that are applied after a base to-hit is determined. These could be from hunter MAR, cloud generator, small target MAR, etc. Hope this helps clear up some confusion. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see how it would be an easy mistake to make, but the numbers are the same if their in the same height band or different.

2a: Determine the Basic ‘To Hit’ Value
The Basic ‘To Hit’ value depends on the Height Level
the Target or Firer is occupying. If they are not at the
same Height Level, use whichever ‘To Hit’ value is
most beneficial for the Target.

BASIC ‘TO HIT’ VALUES
Stratospheric RED (6)
Obscured 5 or RED (6)
Surface or Flying 4, 5 or RED (6)
Submerged 5 or RED (6)
Deep Diving RED (6)

The two parts have to be applied in the specific order they are listed.

Say the Target is at surface and the Firer is at Stratospheric, you take the two "Basic 'To Hit' Values" of "4, 5, RED (6)" and "RED (6)".  Clearly they aren't the same, so you have to pick which one to use, sentence two, so you pick the one that is most beneficial to the target, "RED (6)". 

If they are both at Obscured you take the two "Basic 'To Hit' Values", "5 or RED (6)" and "5 or RED (6)," there is no difference so there is no choice to be made, it is "5 or RED (6)."

Because if you are at Stratospheric the "BASIC ‘TO HIT’ VALUE" is "RED (6)," it is not a negative modifier based on difference, it is the basic value for being at that level. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Erloas, where does it say in the book the wording that supports your claim of, say needing 6 (red) for stratospheric to hit stratospheric? It still says that if they are NOT at the same Height Band, use the most beneficial to hit for the target. I don't see anything which indicates you take an inherent penalty shooting at a target at the same height band as your model, say strato vs strato. Why would they specify if they aren't at the same height? If I'm 500 feet behind you on the ground or stratospheric, I'm still just 500 feet away. Shooting up or down, yes you have a lower to-hit, but not straight across. Please show me in the book where I am wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.