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4K Beta Rules Test - Terran vs Dindrenzi

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4K Beta Rules Test - Terran vs Dindrenzi

I am playing another game of Beta rules this week with @gray-mako and wanted to get our rules assumptions/"minor" changes out so people can pick over them and tell me I'm crazy. Also so I don't forget them.

I accept some changes are "off the wall" the LOS in particular but my opponent is much happier with this as we both hate the "gamey" movement where you leave a 1mm gap so your model can see its target but can't be hit by many enemies and it just slows things down, move, check adjust, check adjust again etc etc.

Also the FF order might be a bit too much but I felt (and others who have played games [see battle reports] that it just becomes the default firing effect so unless its changed it might as well be 3+ to hit across the board. Think my changes make you question if you should use it or not and it passively increases the effectiveness of units who can link many weapons as opposed to "Jack of All Trades" models (Looking at you Odin)

I'll add the report once we have played in the post below and put an update at the end of thread where-ever it maybe.

Rules Assumptions/Minor Changes

  1. Focused Fire Order changed to the following - Rational = Reduce the amount of 3+ shooting that can occur & make it more of a choice than default to use an order.
    • "A Focus Fire Order allows a Unit to make a Single Shooting Attack with a +1 to hit if the weapons used are in their optimum range band (Primary - SR or MR, Secondary - PB, Tertiary - LR). A unit using a Focus Fire Order may not make more than 1 Shooting Attack, including CQB or use a Focus Designation Order. It may still defend against CQB fired at it.
  2. Focused Designation - Rational = Make this action more like its shooting brother & also make distinctions between using CP and Orbital Points. Basically it allows you to use Target locks to gain the bonus outside optimal range.
    • "Focused Designation Order has a +1 to hit for any Nexus Designation actions this turn. A Unit that uses Focus Designation may not also use a Focus Fire Order. This bonus applies to all uses, Target Lock/Zeroing In Arty/Skydrop
  3. Skydrop and Arty - Just for clarity
    • When placing Skydrops or Calling in a Orbital Strike you may use up to 3 additional Skydrop Points/Orbital Support to reduce the initial number on the micro dice by 1 on a 1:1 ratio. You must use any points you wish to before rolling any further dice Nexus marking etc. For example I use 2 Skydrop Points to place a single Skydrop Marker with the micro dice set at 5 before rolling any nexus designation.
    • It is perfectly permissible to use multiple points and a Focused Designation in a single turn.
    • Place Skydrops (including if you wish to use more than 1) at the start of a turn before any orders.
  4. LOS - Rational =This is a personal preference to stop having in our opinion very "gamey" movements also in the hops of speeding things up a bit.
    • Units may always draw LOS through models within their own squadron
  5. Movement - Rational = Again another personal preference to reducing fiddly movement
    • Units may always move through friendly Infantry Sized Models
  6. CQB - Waiting for some clarification from Spartan Derek for some of the following and if CQB can be linked - No confirmation but will play it cannot link
    • CQB weaponry is another type of Weapon Type and fires exactly as other Weapons. Unless the weapons has the INT MAR or the unit has the Dogfighter MAR or is firing at a Hover flyer CQB may not be used against Flying models.
    • Also unless a Flyer has either the Hover or Strafing Run MAR it may not use its CQB against ground targets.
    • CQB Weaponry including Melee weapons will all have the CQB MAR in addition to any listed in their profile.
      • CQB MAR = A CQB Weapon ignores all defensive MARs (Hard Target, Sectored Armor etc) and units attacked may not use shield dice to reduce the number of success, cover dice can still be used. CQB weapons may never link with non CQB weapons.
    • Directorate Faction Rule allows Focused Fire to be used on CQB but does not make it a secondary weapon i.e. it still cannot fire at flyers as above.
    • When using a CQB attack the target of the attack may simultaneously make a shooting attack using its own CQB weapons.
    • Instead of the target unit using its CQB to return fire a friendly unit that does not have an activation marker and is in range may use their CQB weapons in a simultaneous attack this unit would receive an activation marker after making such a reaction (and possibly forgo its own activation) {considering changing this to "in addition" instead of "instead of" to give players who protect units with overlapping CQB fire the defense they should have, but at the moment it seems quite powerful}
  7. Orders
    • Used the table @Spartan Derek provided in the thread but used the points cost in the faction Orbats. Set at "Battle" level
      • Terrans receive 6 free CP and can purchase more for 10 Points each
      • Dindrenzi receive 4 free CP and can purchase more for 15 points each
  8. Forlorn Hope
    • If a any point a squadron has 1 more disorder markers than they have remaining DR levels they immediately become "Forlorn" and make an out of sequence firing attack with all weapons available taking damage into account as normal. They are then removed as if destroyed. E.G. A unit of 3 Hemidals has a damage marker each and so has 3 remaining DR levels if they receive 4 or more disorder markers they become "Forlorn"
  9. Recon Skydrop/Recon Phase - In the Dinzi Orbat there is mention of Recon Skydrop :S but nothing in the synopsis so I've made it up.
    • Models that have the Recon Skydrop MAR may deploy from Skydrop in the recon phase. Place Skydrop markers/points as normal anywhere on the battle field but no closer than 16" to an enemy model.
    • All Mk II pods in the Dinzi Recon Helix can choose this option to gain "Recon Skydrop" at 15pts each
  10. Terrain
    • All Terrain is given a size rating as models do (Infantry, Light, Medium, Large, Massive, Leviathan) additionally you may place suitably tall terrain as "Epic" sized.
    • Terrain blocks LOS as normal models would.
    • Epic sized Terrain blocks LOS for flyers unless they are wholly within said Terrain
    • Models inside Terrain are not blocked shooting out of it or being shot at but the being in-terrain may provide cover for units.
    • Light Terrain (Woods, or in our case Man sized crystals (C&C inspired) provide Infantry units that occupy them a cover save of 1 per model
    • Buildings provide Infantry that occupy them a cover shield of 2 each.
Edited by chrisbburn
9&10, CQB

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Scenario - Breakthrough

Going to give our hand at playing something different than the standard destroy each other an claim objectives and use the scenario that is in this forum as a base and refresh it a little.

  • Game Size
    • 4000 Points each
  • Zero Hour Tracker
    • Starts at 80
  • Battlefield
    • Best played on a long table size we are using a 6'x6' with the short edges as the deployment edges.
  • Setup
    • The attacker must hold at least half of his force (in activations rounding down) in reserve
    • The remaining force is deployed up to 8" away from his deployment edge
    • The attacker always deploys everything not in reserve first.
    • The defender must hold at least 3 quarters of his force (in activations rounding down) in reserve
    • The remaining force is deployed up to 8" away from his deployment edge
    • All deployed defenders start with an Overwatch token
  • Recon
    • Recon as normal including Recon Skydrops
  • Reserves
    • Up to half of the units in reserve (rounding down) may arrive by moving on from the players own deployment edge in Turn 2 and then the remaining reserves arrive on turn 4.
    • A unit must be capable of moving to arrive in this way. So you can move Spires/Drop pods etc arrive in the way they normally do.
    • Sky Dropping units may arrive as normal.
  • Objectives
    • The Attacker receives Double a units TV that breaks through the defenders lines.
    • To breakthrough a model must start its activation wholly within 4" of the defenders deployment edge. These models are removed from the table an take no further part in the battle.
    • The Attacker receives the Full TV that is within 4" of the defenders deployment edge at the end of the game. 
    • The Defender receives the Full TV of any enemy unit that is fully destroyed
    • The Defender receives Half the TV of any enemy unit that is reduced below half strength at the end of the game.
    • The Defender receives Half the TV of any enemy unit that withdraws from the battle.
  •  Game Length
    • This scenario uses a variable game length.
    • At the end of Turn 4 roll a D6 on a 5+ the game ends other wise it continues but at the end of turn roll a D6 again this time the game ends on 4+ and so on to a maximum of 8 turns.  

Battle Report

So we played our game on Friday and I am just getting to write up the notes today. We had to call the game at probably the crucial turn but it looked like Dinzi had the win just as they were about to escape quite a few units. 

Playing on the bigger table helped give a bit more time to move around the board and set up for your attacks, also it meant that first turns were some what shorter.

Turn 1 - This was just a case of moving all units on the table into better positions

Turn 2 - Pinpoint finally did something for a change and my Tyr reduced a Circe by 1 dmg, (still not a fan of PP but it is slightly more reliable now), In return the Eris that the Circe was attached to scored a dmg back on the Tyr. The Baldrs continuing the successful use of Pinpoint managed to destroy a Circe in the other unit with a very sniper like blast of lasers. The Dinzi continued to focus on the Tyr in the centre of the board with the Kratos unit scoring another dmg. I brought my Sherrif on hoping it could call in an Orbital strike but alas it was just out of range of all its guns and nexus. Bringing on the remaining Guardsmen they flat out moved to the centre of the board, in hindsight a mistake, ready to strafe the Dinzi line. Rolling up behind the Tyr the Vidars took aim with their missles and missed the damaged Circe.

Turn 3 - Jimmi remembered to put his skydrop markers down this turn and brought in some Mk1 gun platforms in front of the Circe and right in from of the Sheriff. Luckily the Sheriff avoided any damage from the savlo of AA. Got to use the Orbital strike and used 2 tokens and both nexus to fully zero in the attack which then did enough to damage a single Eris (We still played that Arty hits the rear), The Guardsmen swooped in using CQB and Guns which is a bit nasty as the Kraotos was unable to return CQB fire and scored another damage point on the unit. 2nd Eris unit tried to shot down the Guardsmen but rolled more 1 than I have ever seen. Skydropping in the Hyperion right into my lines was going to spell trouble although we did allow that even though it landed off the board that instead of destroying it I got to choose the direction, again in hindsight that probably made it easier for the Dinzi. The drop was right infront of my poor Baldrs and by using a focused designation order and all its weapons hitting on 3+ he managed to Forlorn the Baldrs who went for a last horah and did nothing to the towering Hyperion. My hemidals of the right flank cruise up and wipe out the Mk2 gun platforms scoring 3 TV, meanwhile my hold-up'd Hirdmen fire with their raptor grenade launchers at the Hyperion and score a single dmg (Go Light Infantry) Dinzi continue dropping in units along the now poorly defended left flank as in came the 2 units of Letos and the Archangel and they proceeded to make a break for it.

Turn 4 - Tyr is finally finshed off which leaves me without long range firepower and had to commit my Vidars to assiting trying to destroy the Hyperion, they scored a single hit which gave it a corrosion marker as well. The Hyperion continued to poor fire onto the centre of my line taking out a Vidar and nearly a Ullr Mk2 with it if it hadn't been for the damage it had already sustained. The Sherrif Swung round and scored another damage on the Leviathan by hitting it in the rear. My last unit of Hemidals and Ullr mK1 turned up to assist the left flank destroying all bar 1 Leto and at which point we called the game.

Conclusions

  • Was a much quicker game probably due to knowing the rules and making assumptions prior to the start of the game.
  • Also our house rule about LOS got rid of multiple adjusting of units
  • Still not convinced that having the now 4 range bands adds more than it causes delays, I still feel 2 range bands was sufficient.
  • Pinpoint had a better day but still was very dependent on the dice gods, the extra roll isn't an issue for us.
  • Still struggling with "Focus" orders they seem to very much be the norm to use them even with the changes we made to make them more of a choice. We both didn't have a huge amount of order points each but still used them entirely on Focus Fire or Focused Designations and given my above ruling Focus Destinations were a handy trick the dinzi could use to fire multiple attacks hitting on +1, but I knew that would be the case and didn't mind it too much.
  • Orbital strikes worked as intended but I dislike now targeting a unit and not putting down a marker, in our game the Dinzi bunched up at one point and had I been able to put a marker in the middle of them it would of been much more likley of hitting a whole unit, whereas now its always going to move off the unit it targets, bring it back as Skydrops have been brought back please, I.E. Use 1 Orbit point to place a marker, up to another 3 at that point to reduce the dice down to 3+ and then Nexus to call it in Zero further.
  • Aircraft movement is bad. I get where its going and feel that the premise is fine but it needs tweaking either the minimum move or the amount/quantity of turns possible. for example Hawker Guardsmen have a 20" movement minimum and even if I deploy them at the edge of a board they will sooner or later run out of board space and get stuck, this reduces aircraft to be forced into flying laps of the baord and hoping to line up an attack. 
    • Possible Solutions
    • Allow all aircraft to pivot 45 at start and end (As dogfighters) and give dogfighters a pivot of 90
    • Allow the minimum move to be half the Cruising speed that way you have more options of how far you can move i.e Guardsmen with Mv 20", 30" can cruise up to 20" but must move at least 10" & can flat out 21"-30" in a straight line.
    • Or a combo similar to how the old lumbering worked with a minimum mV before a turn i.e. Dogfighters lower min move than Ground Attack.
  • Overall I didn't have much of problem other than the above, the scenario we played caused issues because it clearly needed re-thinking for skydrop heavy forces. I found most units performed as expected and didn't feel much was terribly out of balance. Terran Hirdmen really do kick out a fair amount of firepower and are difficult to remove if in cover. Thanks for the tip @Spartan Derek. Forlorn worked as intended with the clearing up of when it triggers. I still believe that the current orders system is open to "order spam" especially for those forces that have high points units and so less of them which means they can easily have enough order points to FF each unit if needed. I would advocate that units with the "Command Element" MAR generate them in the same way Orbital Asset Points are Generated or that each "Command Element" unit allows a single order per turn, with some having bonus extras like the Command Helix Massives. I didn't even mind the change to the Ullr Mk2 too much although I fail to see its use against forces other than Dinzi, possibly Reth but as both my main opponents are Dinzi players its fine, also I just stop taking them on mass like I used to.
Edited by chrisbburn
BR, Conclusion

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FORCES

DINDRENZI

  • 2x Command Points

Core

  • 2x Kratos
  • 3x Eris, 1x Circe
  • 3x Eris, 1x Circe
  • 3x Letos

Leviathan

  • 1x Hyperion (Skydrop Capable)
  • 5x Letos
  • 5x Letos

 Recon

  • 4x Nyx, 3x GT, 1xOff, Drop Pod MkI, Assault Variant 
  • 2x Mk2 Gun Platforms
  • 2x Mk2 Gun Platforms

Assault (RSN)

  • 1x Archangel

TERRAN

  • 4x Command Points

Core

  • 2x Vidar, 1x Ullr Mk2
  • 2x Hemidal, Nukes
  • 2x Hemidal, Nukes
  • 2x Hemidal, Nukes
  • 3x Valkyries
  • 6x Hirdmen, 3xGT,1xOFF
  • 6x Hirdmen, 3xGT,1xOFF

Heavy

  • 1x Tyr
  • 3x Baldr
  • 2x Ullr Mk1, Nukes

Aerial

  • 1x Sigyn
  • 4x Rindr

Aerial (Hawker)

  • 1x Sheriff
  • 4x Guardsmen

 

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