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Bazlord

Covenant in v2.5 - Submarine Bait?

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So, now that all Diving units can go to the Deep Diving level, it looks like an interesting "sub"-game (luvving the puns!), where diving units move around firing torpedoes at one another. 

The Covenant doesn't have any Diving models (right?), while most other Nations seem to be getting new subs on the near future. And although the CoA does have good torpedoes, but they'll only ever hit Deep Diving models on a 6+, right? All other weapons will always be Partially Blocked, and at -1 to hit. 

So does this place the Covenant at a disadvantage that might be a problem?

Apologies - I'm a new player, so I'm probably missing a lot of nuances here. Just interested in the discussion!

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No, the Covenant will have their new medium submarines, but their only armament is a Long Lance, so, no, not really a threat.

But here's the thing. Sure, whilst you're deep, you're less likely to get hit, but you're also severely impacting your own firepower, and it's not like most subs have anything impressive in aramaments to begin with - the vengeance may have a massive forward torp array, but that's it's only weapon. If you're relying on the subs to board or ram, a good Covenant player will just get out of the way whilst plinking away at you. 6's to hit may sound tough, but have you seen how many dice the covenant can throw at range? Statistics will eventually catch up...

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Not that many nations have hunter(diving) outside of SAS and that is going to be the only real way to hit any deep divers on anything but a 6.  None of the COA target paints will work for their torpedoes.

I think KOB is the only one that is really set for killing subs, with lots of torpedoes, but more importantly target painters and several units with hunter (diving) which will mean they can get pretty good to-hit numbers.

And as mentioned the hard to hit thing goes both ways.  A quick look doesn't show any subs with hunter (surface) so they're not going to be hitting on anything better than a 6 too, with KOB being an exception, being able to hit on a 5+ with their sub if a surface unit gets the target painter going.

The main issue is going to be subs that go deep until they close range, but even doing that most aren't going to be really dangerous as they don't pack enough punch to threaten more than maybe one ship.  KOB subs can do quite a bit but they can't fire into RB1 anyway.

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Good-oh. The subs will be as bad at targeting surface vessels as they are at targeting subs. More or less.

I'm really liking the idea of subs going at each other under the waves, but since both sides would be at 6's to hit, and they wouldn't be over-blown with usable weaponry, i guess it won't happen too often. Awww... ;-)

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@ Erloas: The Aristotle (in v2.0) has a Target Painter Generator that works on every weapon the CoA has, including torpedoes. All you have to do is get close enough to use it. ;)

 

@ Bazlord: Don't forget that if a submerged unit without the Reinforced Bulkheads MAR suffers a critical hit, they are forced to the Surface level immediately. And with everyone rolling strings of sixes to hit... :D

 

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8 hours ago, Pawprint said:

@ Erloas: The Aristotle (in v2.0) has a Target Painter Generator that works on every weapon the CoA has, including torpedoes. All you have to do is get close enough to use it. ;)

 

I looked at that, but it isn't for everything, it is for all Primary Weaponry and from what I saw all of the CoA torpedoes are tertiary. 

Of course the Prometheus has a target painter without a weapon type, so that should effect everything.

But... there seems to have been a big nerf to target painters in 2.5: from the generator listing on pg 169 "Any Attack made by Models in the activating Squadron using the Weapon listed in parenthesis against the Model receives a +1 bonus to hit on their Attack Dice (AD) rolls."

It seems target painters don't help the rest of the fleet, only the model with the generator?  I'm wondering if that is a mistake or a legitimate change?  Would really hurt the usefulness of a target painter and it wouldn't be a support generator at all.

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12 minutes ago, Erloas said:

It seems target painters don't help the rest of the fleet, only the model with the generator?  I'm wondering if that is a mistake or a legitimate change?  Would really hurt the usefulness of a target painter and it wouldn't be a support generator at all.

Must be a mistake of trimming down the wording, the ability to affect other squadrons was central to how target painters worked, this new interpretation would be flat worse than any hunter MAR. That said,there is no 'painted' game marker listed in the game markers section (used to look similar to spotted tokens).

@Spartan Mike, please save us.

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On 2017-5-22 at 8:07 PM, Shadowcatdecoy said:

In another thread they confirmed the wording is accurate, TPs now only affect the squad with a TP Gen in it.

Awww, gross. There goes a load of the synergy for which i just bought into the Covenant :-(

Or, I could just wait to see what the ORBATs will bring, since we currently have things like:

The FSA Savannah, which can choose a Target Painter (Primary Gunnery) Generator, while the model itself has no Primary Gunnery. (Nor can it add anything to its squadron that has P guns).

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Remember the orbats are changing, so some ships will probably have different generators in the new rules.  I am hoping that there will be two kinds on Target Painters, those that paint for everyone, and those that only paint for their squadron.

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