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Nazduruk_Bugzappa

Notes and queries on 2.5

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1 minute ago, NaH2PO4aq said:

You are confusing SAS and SAW: SAS is a squadron that consists of a number of wings  (SAW) 

2: you rebuild 1 SAS,  that has of a number of SAW defined by the Sas size of the carrier.

Damn. Yes. I thought it was the other way around...

I like many of the new rules, including rebuild, but I think some limitation to it could be applied. 

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5 hours ago, sleeping_squirrel said:

Your experience matches my impressions from rules how it will look like :-/ First wave of suicidical aircrafts will hit anything foolish enough to deploy in the advanced deployment zone.

There are some things to think about though.  All of the Local Air Support SAS are fighters only and can only be changed if the carrier has already activated.  Fighters are not going to a threat to much of your force.  And a unit of 5 fighters is also not that likely to be taken out in a single counterattack.

So only SAS units deployed by carriers are going to be a good option on many first turns.  But then you have to look at wiping out a SAS unit and what it does.  Aggressive AA counterattack is done before they release their ordinance. so if the unit is wiped out completely they don't get to launch their ordinance.  They may have got you an activation but they didn't actually do any damage in that case. 

More likely though is that you'll make your suicide attack run and the entire SAS unit will not be killed.  You need 9 AA to have a 50% change to take out a 1x3 SAS unit, 12 AA for a 1x4 unit, and 15 AA for a 1x5 unit.  Those aren't too hard to get, but as an opponent if I know that I can choose to only link a few units out of a squad so I don't kill all of the SAS and then you're stuck with 1-2 SAS left alive and probably didn't have the AD to damage my ship and I have absolutely no reason to finish off that unit of SAS.  You then don't get to rebuild until you've made it back to the carrier to reload and replenish and hope the *next* turn that it gets taken out.  And if you've got a lot of carriers for 1x3 units that are easily taken out it also means then aren't nearly as dangerous as those 1x5 units and you can only ever rebuild those 1x3 units.  If you're spending that many points just for activations that aren't even guaranteed you've probably got weaknesses elsewhere in the list.

 

It is not that it can't be done, but it seems like very specific lists you have to build and that should be an option.  It isn't like you can just drop one or two small carriers into a list and expect a huge number of activations. 

I also wouldn't be surprised if we see more ships specifically designed as counters to atmospheric flyers once we get a lot more atmospheric flyers around. 

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50 minutes ago, Erloas said:

There are some things to think about though.  All of the Local Air Support SAS are fighters only and can only be changed if the carrier has already activated.  Fighters are not going to a threat to much of your force.  And a unit of 5 fighters is also not that likely to be taken out in a single counterattack.

So only SAS units deployed by carriers are going to be a good option on many first turns.  But then you have to look at wiping out a SAS unit and what it does.  Aggressive AA counterattack is done before they release their ordinance. so if the unit is wiped out completely they don't get to launch their ordinance.  They may have got you an activation but they didn't actually do any damage in that case. 

More likely though is that you'll make your suicide attack run and the entire SAS unit will not be killed.  You need 9 AA to have a 50% change to take out a 1x3 SAS unit, 12 AA for a 1x4 unit, and 15 AA for a 1x5 unit.  Those aren't too hard to get, but as an opponent if I know that I can choose to only link a few units out of a squad so I don't kill all of the SAS and then you're stuck with 1-2 SAS left alive and probably didn't have the AD to damage my ship and I have absolutely no reason to finish off that unit of SAS.  You then don't get to rebuild until you've made it back to the carrier to reload and replenish and hope the *next* turn that it gets taken out.  And if you've got a lot of carriers for 1x3 units that are easily taken out it also means then aren't nearly as dangerous as those 1x5 units and you can only ever rebuild those 1x3 units.  If you're spending that many points just for activations that aren't even guaranteed you've probably got weaknesses elsewhere in the list.

 

It is not that it can't be done, but it seems like very specific lists you have to build and that should be an option.  It isn't like you can just drop one or two small carriers into a list and expect a huge number of activations. 

I also wouldn't be surprised if we see more ships specifically designed as counters to atmospheric flyers once we get a lot more atmospheric flyers around. 

Your points are all valid, sir! :-) As you pointed out, specialised lists with a lot of carriers might still be pain in the aft side to deal with.

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21 hours ago, Spartan Josh said:

They are presently being converted into the proper format from numerous notes and separate documents, it is important that they include everything in one place! We aim to have them with you as soon as we can.

Ok, great news. So, can you confirm or deny thal all CL will be in squadrons up to 4? :ph34r:

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Some do not need to be in squadrons of 4. The Italian one comes to mind. That thing would be unimaginatively broken is it came in a squadron of 4. 

The Prussian Riever also doesn't need to be in squadrons of 4. Be nice if it does, but it certainly doesn't need to be.

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5 minutes ago, Merlin said:

Some do not need to be in squadrons of 4. The Italian one comes to mind. That thing would be unimaginatively broken is it came in a squadron of 4. 

The Prussian Riever also doesn't need to be in squadrons of 4. Be nice if it does, but it certainly doesn't need to be.

Huh?  Wait what!?  The reiver ia terrible atm,  it needs the boost! 

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14 minutes ago, Zahariel said:

Huh?  Wait what!?  The reiver ia terrible atm,  it needs the boost! 

Are you serious? The Riever is one of the better Mediums the Prussians have. Its far better than the cruiser at the very least.

30pts cheaper, roughly the same firepower, has an extra broadside weapon and a ranged aft weapon (not useful most of the time, but it is there), roughly the same speed, roughly the same boarding capacity, and can perform the same role as the Cruiser. Its only downsides are 4HP and no close quarter gunnery but it gains the ability to target smalls with impunity due to not being a capital model and it cannot be prized because it is not a capital model.

The Riever is perfect. You can easily be very reckless with them and know that no matter what happens to them, they can do some damage to everything on the table, but also be comfortable in the knowledge that your opponent can only ever get 165pts out of the squadron if it is destroyed. 

Can't do that with the cruiser.

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5 hours ago, Merlin said:

Are you serious? The Riever is one of the better Mediums the Prussians have. Its far better than the cruiser at the very least.

30pts cheaper, roughly the same firepower, has an extra broadside weapon and a ranged aft weapon (not useful most of the time, but it is there), roughly the same speed, roughly the same boarding capacity, and can perform the same role as the Cruiser. Its only downsides are 4HP and no close quarter gunnery but it gains the ability to target smalls with impunity due to not being a capital model and it cannot be prized because it is not a capital model.

The Riever is perfect. You can easily be very reckless with them and know that no matter what happens to them, they can do some damage to everything on the table, but also be comfortable in the knowledge that your opponent can only ever get 165pts out of the squadron if it is destroyed. 

Can't do that with the cruiser.

Its also very very fragile and could be taken out easily.  Personally i prefer the Uhlans.  These buggers are a huge threat even with one ship remaining and could easily captured an exposed large in one turn 

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The Uhlan is no harder to kill than the Riever. It's only bonus is that it has the extra HP ensuring a double crit doesn't kill it outright. But what is it really buying you? Your paying 195pts just for the convienence that the model won't be double crited to death (but if it was hit by a double critical it may as well be dead because it's lost all usefulness in its weapons, and is likely to be either shot or boarded later in the game anyway)

Seriously, everything the Uhlan can do, the Riever can do for a discount and at very little disadvantage in comparison. And the one role the Uhlan does ok, the Riever does better (small hunting) 

 

 

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I am quite curious about this as well. The PDF rulebook only lists Battle Groups as tracking MFV (which will fluctuate greatly based on dice rolls and events), but not composition. Since the rules mention checking supply status each campaign turn (and losing MFV if out of supply), they could be implying that each turn the group gets refreshed/resupplied with new vehicles and ammunition. This way, you simply build your force during a battle within the MFV limits and whether you have a dreadnought with the group. Any losses during the tabletop battle can be replaced (generically) with MFV afterwards. No need to track the exact build between battles, so you can change it to suit your needs or desires.

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Has anyone noticed that the Troop Reinforcement MAR is not in the new rulebook? I was painting my Titan and decided to look up if it still works ok in v2.5, just in case I decide to use It now operational assets are no longer counted as allies. But the MAR doesn't appear to be there, so the whole reason to take one is gone.

 

@Spartan Mike can you shed any light on this?

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14 minutes ago, Spartan Mike said:

@Merlin One of the things that is being moved into ORBATS. As operational assets will be getting a look and update along with all the other "more-traditional" Forces!

-Mike

Ah, ok. Suppose that makes sense considering it's the only model (so far) that has the rule. 

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

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So how does Terror Tactics work (1 per model) with the boarding party being one large group?

Is it ever reduced for losses from anti-boarding AA?

For a corvette squadron would you need to lose 6 of 10 AP before losing 1 TT die?

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