Firestorm Planetfall Designer Feedback Thread

[CoreHunter]

With half a rule book it is hard to test anything. No idea if designator can zero arty but I do not think arty marker is placed untill you fire it now?

[Paladin21]

It's in the Call in Orbital Strike rules under the Nexus Designator.  You can shoot an Orbital Strike against anything in line of sight to a model with a Nexus Designator.  It takes 1 Orbital Point to do this.  The shot scatters 6D6, which can be reduced to 5D5 or 4D6 by using 1/2 additional Orbital Points.  Then, if your designator is in range, you can designate the target to further reduce scatter.  No markers, just draw a line of sight.  Scatter reduction is via spending additional Orbital Points/using the Designator (if in range)/issuing Command Orders (if you have one for that).

 

[CoreHunter]

so yeah I still aint hitting *(&^% with arty then in that case. Was thinking the designator reduced the scatter distance rolled for some reason. welp back to not using arty for me.

[Paladin21]

It does reduce scatter, if you're in range to use it.  The difference is that you don't have to be in range to set of Orbital Strikes, they just scatter a lot.  It's also more risky than the previous system as you can't know if your shot will be zero'd or not when you make it.  In return, you can nail things much farther away than would have been possible.  Also, if you get a good shot, you will probably kill much more stuff than you would have previously (or at least have the option to do so depending on your rolls).'

For a zero'd shot, if your designator is in range, you could use 2 additional Orbital Points (3 total) and only need 3 successes from the Designator to make it happen.

[CoreHunter]

yeah but i tend to miss even arty markers at 1. so I will pass.

[CoreHunter]

Also if placed shots are still in this will probably be as campy as last iteration. An I in placed range? Ok start camping.

[chrisbburn]

Wow this got negative all of a sudden! 

I'm not convinced by the PP change but going to give it a go this weekend and see how it plays.

Would be nice to hear some design ideas behind the changes. 

Did some comparison early and when looking across all 6 factions more of the initial OMG changes seem more conservative and fitting but will see at the weekend. 

[chrisbburn]

3 hours ago, Paladin21 said:

It's in the Call in Orbital Strike rules under the Nexus Designator.  You can shoot an Orbital Strike against anything in line of sight to a model with a Nexus Designator.  It takes 1 Orbital Point to do this.  The shot scatters 6D6, which can be reduced to 5D5 or 4D6 by using 1/2 additional Orbital Points.  Then, if your designator is in range, you can designate the target to further reduce scatter.  No markers, just draw a line of sight.  Scatter reduction is via spending additional Orbital Points/using the Designator (if in range)/issuing Command Orders (if you have one for that).

 

So am I understanding correctly you will always scatter D6" or

Orbital points brings the number of scatter dice and then nexus reduces the result rolled? 

Also is that how Skydrop works as well. Would be handy if they worked the same just different markers/asset pool. 

[Mr.ponders]

Was it intentional that now that small hover vehicles become very hard to hurt once they have activated?

Old Hover Vehicle MAR: When firing against this Model with weaponry at Long Range, the target Model is considered to have the Hard Target (-1) MAR. For
Models that already possess the Hard Target MAR (of any type), the Hover Vehicle MAR is ignored.

New Hover Vehicle MAR:  All Main Ordnance Attacks targeting this vehicle when it has an Activation Marker suffers a further -1 to hit modifier. This is cumulative with other modifiers as normal.

Small hover tanks like the Leto,  Loatu, Lamana, Assara, Nuk-Su, Hal-Su ..etc.. are now hit on a normal shot only on 6's after they've activated in the old method they would still be hit on 5's. For races without many weapons with the Scatter Mar these little tanks will be very hard to hurt and for relatively similar points these lights will vastly out perform their tracked and wheeled light tank breatheren, particularly as the hover light tanks have most of the higher DR's of the light tanks. 

Oddly though the Sorylian Collective Ka’Kun doesnt have hover. 

 

[Paladin21]

I'm more worried about Aquans in general with that rule.  Their DR with shields (assuming normal rolls) are comparable to (or better) than average, they get sectored armor on everything, and now universal -1 to hit after they activate?  They were already good, but this is just....  I'll test it out before I call a foul, but this seems really sketchy.

[chrisbburn]

I think giving up the activation early is a bigger downside for lights though. Most don't have the range to engage early in the battle and so you tend to activate last. 

[Zahariel]

7 hours ago, Mr.ponders said:

Was it intentional that now that small hover vehicles become very hard to hurt once they have activated?

Old Hover Vehicle MAR: When firing against this Model with weaponry at Long Range, the target Model is considered to have the Hard Target (-1) MAR. For
Models that already possess the Hard Target MAR (of any type), the Hover Vehicle MAR is ignored.

New Hover Vehicle MAR:  All Main Ordnance Attacks targeting this vehicle when it has an Activation Marker suffers a further -1 to hit modifier. This is cumulative with other modifiers as normal.

Small hover tanks like the Leto,  Loatu, Lamana, Assara, Nuk-Su, Hal-Su ..etc.. are now hit on a normal shot only on 6's after they've activated in the old method they would still be hit on 5's. For races without many weapons with the Scatter Mar these little tanks will be very hard to hurt and for relatively similar points these lights will vastly out perform their tracked and wheeled light tank breatheren, particularly as the hover light tanks have most of the higher DR's of the light tanks. 

Oddly though the Sorylian Collective Ka’Kun doesnt have hover. 

 

They have their AD severely reduced in return 

[Hannibal]

When could we expect complet rules to play test?

[Aurikon]

*Checks Dindrenzi Rules*

*Hunts for the beloved Nyx*

*Sees the pods costing for assault vehicle*

Ok whilst I nearly had a heart attack at the sight of that 60pt pod to keep the Nyx doing, I managed to contiinue to the Nyx.

Well, looks like my murderous little Alpha Males are back on top of their game, 45 pt increase (30 just on the pods upgrade) I could not be happier with them

[CoreHunter]

you get all those guns free in the recon helix for nyx

[Aurikon]

11 minutes ago, CoreHunter said:

you get all those guns free in the recon helix for nyx

I saw that too, pretty sure my normal list won't get changed much now

I just have a preference for the sweeper teams, all that cqb goodness

[chrisbburn]

I think its fine that the Nyx are hards of Nails they are effectively Heavy infantry and so long as Dinzi don't get a Hvy Infantry option. 

[S.Derek]

It seems like CoreHunter will be unhappy no matter what I do...lol ...10+ posts/all negative/zero gameplay? ....give it a try first...then feel free to tell us all how wrong we are....!

 

...but for the rest of you, try to play some games..... hybridise rules....test multiple patterns of rules in play....make some educated guesses with the information you have available...problem-solve the gaps.... In other words...be part of the design process!

If you want to test...play some games and join the test.

I mentioned in the posts I don't expect the ORBATS to be perfect, nor do I expect the Rules Synopsis doc to provide a complete picture....but I KNOW that Firestorm Planetfall players are smart enough to take  the presentation as seen and run with it - I need gamers to play games [...supposition: that's what we do right?..]...and through your gaming feedback we can develop the ORBATS and rules.

 

Under current testing:

1. Placed Shots under Orders, don't have to be stationary...you just cant hit and run. Primary Weapons can place at Short/Medium, Secondary Weapons can place at Point Blank and Tertiary Weapons can place at Long Range.
2. Orbital Strikes DO scatter 1D6 once zero-ed, but the player can re-roll the direction.
3. Hard Target does stack intentionally.....once folks get to testing, their gaming-feedback will determine AD levels/DR tracks/etc on these models.
4. Independent Targeting isn't mentioned because it is out the game...as is Lumbering.
5. ORBAT errors - well.... I expected those [...Sorylian Light Skiff is a howler however...my bad]

 

 

cheers,

d

[chrisbburn]

Thanks very much @Spartan Derek

In your current testing gameshow many CP points are lists taking? A ratio like around 5 per 1000 pts or more fluid? Just writing lists for 3k games at the weekend and unsure how many points to sink into CP. 

[S.Derek]

We test at 5-6k, so at those levels I will invariably take 10-12.

Less cautious players might go lower...but in doing so they are assuming the game will go well all the time.....I'm a Terran player however... I KNOW my shield dice will jinx themselves eventually!

 

d

[ahmadan]

Thanks for the clarification. I was a bit unsure about if spending a command to improve the hit value of Main Ordinance was considered a Placed Shot, but now I know.... 

One more clarification: is it enough with a single success on a Target Lock roll to give +1 to hit, or should there still be 4 successes?

[CoreHunter]

honestly my problem comes from most these units when compared to their counterparts in other forces do not seem pointed on any real basis.

Just compare the original core lights. Terran should be around 45 when compared to relthozan and directorate, Sorylian should be around 50, and aquan and dindrenzi should cost the same about 60.

Mainly the terran one is not 10pts better than directorate or relthozan, and aquan and dindrenzi are nearly comparable with trading a little range for AD and a DR for a SH. with aquan missing hover as a typo i'm sure. all these units perform basicaly the same rolls: forward harassment, anti infantry, and capturing objectives.

[chrisbburn]

Units shouldn't only be considered against their counter part unless you want boring factions. 

Some scope needs to be given to premiums for abilities rare in your faction. Tyr/Baldr in Terrans who lack longer ranged fire power. 

[CoreHunter]

so how does that apply to the basic lights? also can anyone explain why the hawker core heavy is the most expensive minor heavy?

[chrisbburn]

Some factions will have expensive lights because of faction flavor they should make up for it in other areas. This is my opinion otherwise you might as well have 1 list for all and just have different models/paints. 

IMO no unit should be balanced with only its opponents in mind. I.e all basic lights should equal each other or should cost more for better stats. It just ends up being boring.