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S.Derek

Firestorm Armada 3.0 Designer Feedback Thread

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IMHO

Boarding should stay, Cyber should stay, Targeted Strikes should stay, they all could be tweaked, they should all be a little different to each other, they should be better for some races than others. They should all be fun. 

Removing anything from FSA takes away from the whole experience, we should be adding to it, not removing. 

 

Also, I have invented a drinking game. (Age appropriate participants only) Go to the first page of this thread. Every time someone debates the Realism of "Boarding" in a Fictional Game with Miniature Spaceship Toys, Drink a Shot..... I bet you won't get this far.....

I wonder if the Halo guys want Boarding removed because of realism? (Drink a shot) Surely Boarding is not in the Computer game of Halo, I have never played it so I don't know for sure. 

WA

(note: all suggestions to drink are purely in jest, Drinking Games with shots of Alcohol or Wheatgrass are dangerous)

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Boarding – These changes are the most pronounced from the previous game. We have removed the possibility of capturing ships as the rules as written were very wordy, essentially a vestigial layover from the original 1.0 rules. Instead we have focused the Boarding Action to be a Special Forces (Spec Ops) Raidrather than a Massed Boarding Assault, using the Focused Crit-Table as a launch point for the damage mechanics. This is intended to give players the feeling that they are launching their forces at a specific part of a ship (the weapons arrays, the shield generators, etc.). Boarding will also no longer be a one-stop-shop, and so can be launched numerous times (assuming a ship has enough Crew Points of course!) – This will allow boarding to be a tactical choice for some fleets without feeling overpowered or underpowered… it should simply facilitate the engagement of the Fleet in general.

Time for a serious game based discussion of Boarding. There may be more to the boarding changes than this states, but it addresses the main issue Spartan sees with Boarding:

  1. Removing Capturing Ships: Too much rules space for a uncommon occurrence. Outside of outrageous rolls or squadrons with extreme AP values, only fleets built to make it work really used this rule. Pulling it from the game removes the need for writing comprehensive rules to cover the rare occurrence. It also removes the extreme result when an expensive Tier 1 gets removed from play by one lucky roll.
  2. Tracking for 1 Time Event: Currently, each ship Boards once which means you need to track whether a ship has boarded. Removing that means you no longer need to track and can just board whenever it is possible. This is yet another reason for Removing the Capture of ships. Imagine you could do this as many times as you manage to be in position with a squadron.
  3. Focusing Use: Seems they want to Focus Boarding on taking down systems rather than destroying or capturing ships. Makes sense. Why should marines be the most effective weapon in the game?

Now the question I have is do we really need boarding as separate rule at all? This is not a matter of theme and realism, but one of extra rules for a niche system.

  1. What is the purpose of Boarding?
  2. When Can it be used?
  3. Can we get the same results without needing the special rules (Boarding Rules, Crew Points, Assault Points)?

Without ship capture and with multiple use, it seems boarding is a short ranged weapon that allows Targeted Shots under an alternative resolution system then AD vs DR/CR. If this is the case, why not strengthen the rules for Targeted Strikes in Point Blank Range and do away with boarding entirely?

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In my opinion capturing a ship has nothing to do with just having a lucky dice role. As i see it you can build fleets dedicated for that purpose. Directorate has the option to build a biohazard + cyber boarding list which is indeed quite powerful. push down their crew points, disable PD and go full out boarding action. Capture the ships ans run away with their ****. Gives u alot of points for the battlelog which is important because with that kind of list you wont kill much stuff, you primarily disable the fleet of your opponent. As Directorate has some kind of flavour with stealing the good tech from every faction and implementing it on their own ships it does make alot of sense. So how is that not a viable tactic and has to be removed? You need comprehensive rules for boarding to do that properly. It is not only something minor to see the face of your opponent running away with their ships, it is a playstyle you can choose to use with some factions!

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On 05/05/17 at 2:59 PM, WestAustralian said:

Surely Boarding is not in the Computer game of Halo, I have never played it so I don't know for sure.

I have played Halo. And yes there is boarding by both sides.

On 05/05/17 at 3:24 PM, alextroy said:

Time for a serious game based discussion of Boarding.

Thankyou very much.

Now then from a game based percpective on why it should stay. 

1. It is another form of attack. As  Meatshield noted you can use it to take out more than a single target.

2. Targeted strikes can only hit ONE system an activation and the squadron cannot use their regular attacks that activation. Boarding assaults are capable of hitting multiple systems at a time and you can still attack other targets.

Even if you strengthened targeted strike you could only use it once an activation.

Personally I have seen some interesting ideas about boarding. Corehunter suggested SRS boarding shuttles. The idea of weakening boarding somewhat and allowing you to use it multiple times was a good one as well.

 After some research I noticed you already target specific systems in a ship with a boarding assault. You do not take control of a ship until after you have taken out security. In other words your forcing the crew to fly the ship. By the way you can't fire on the same ship your boarding that activation.

 

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Oh and another thing. How is the movement an issue? Can someone, who us having problems with it, explain to me what exactly the issue with it is? I only have read that the movement is not good but why exactly? oO I never seem to have a problem with it. Even at range bands of 1 moving is no issue. Sometimes a ship might bump into another ship because its a bit big but that is easily avoidable.

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1 hour ago, Neratius said:

In my opinion capturing a ship has nothing to do with just having a lucky dice role. As i see it you can build fleets dedicated for that purpose. Directorate has the option to build a biohazard + cyber boarding list which is indeed quite powerful. push down their crew points, disable PD and go full out boarding action. Capture the ships ans run away with their ****. Gives u alot of points for the battlelog which is important because with that kind of list you wont kill much stuff, you primarily disable the fleet of your opponent. As Directorate has some kind of flavour with stealing the good tech from every faction and implementing it on their own ships it does make alot of sense. So how is that not a viable tactic and has to be removed? You need comprehensive rules for boarding to do that properly. It is not only something minor to see the face of your opponent running away with their ships, it is a playstyle you can choose to use with some factions!

As I said, Capturing Ships is a niche rule. Outside of Directorate Grand Theft Starship builds, it's not really a rule used by most factions. Do we really need all these rules for this one niche use?

1 hour ago, Skyhawk said:

Now then from a game based percpective on why it should stay. 

1. It is another form of attack. As  Meatshield noted you can use it to take out more than a single target.

2. Targeted strikes can only hit ONE system an activation and the squadron cannot use their regular attacks that activation. Boarding assaults are capable of hitting multiple systems at a time and you can still attack other targets.

Even if you strengthened targeted strike you could only use it once an activation.

Personally I have seen some interesting ideas about boarding. Corehunter suggested SRS boarding shuttles. The idea of weakening boarding somewhat and allowing you to use it multiple times was a good one as well.

 After some research I noticed you already target specific systems in a ship with a boarding assault. You do not take control of a ship until after you have taken out security. In other words your forcing the crew to fly the ship. By the way you can't fire on the same ship your boarding that activation.

 

And all these things can be accomplished by changing the Targeted Strike rules. Boarding is the mechanism, not the result. They could eliminate boarding and give a different mechanism for the result, allowing them to eliminate stats and pages of rules

Note: I don't really care if Boarding stays or goes. I'm just trying to figure out why it should stay if it is becoming more and more like a weapon system.

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I've been looking at the boarding rules very closely for the last couple of hours.  I think the SRS option is good, it eliminates a small amount of text in the rule book and consolidates the two methods of boarding, as well as eliminating the need to track whether or not a ship has boarded this game.  It may lead to a higher density of SRS tokens, but I don't think it would be to an extent that it would cause a gameplay problem.  

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50 minutes ago, alextroy said:

As I said, Capturing Ships is a niche rule. Outside of Directorate Grand Theft Starship builds, it's not really a rule used by most factions. Do we really need all these rules for this one niche use?

Ba'Kash, Sorylians, Relth, and Terquai all have Grand Theft Starship potential as well, and Pathogen are literally buult around it. The rules could certainly use some streamlining, and a little more life as well (right now there's no reason to scuttle as opposed to attempting the capture, for instance), but all in all they aren't particularly clunky rules, yeah? And if we can come to a conclusion where we see more SRS types viable, then an influx in the availability/usability of Assault shuttles might also breathe a little more life and purpose into the mechanic. It would be nice to see something tjat was supposed to be a trait of certain factions and a weakness to others get some more love, before looking at it as something that needs to go.

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6 hours ago, Neratius said:

Oh and another thing. How is the movement an issue? Can someone, who us having problems with it, explain to me what exactly the issue with it is? I only have read that the movement is not good but why exactly? oO I never seem to have a problem with it. Even at range bands of 1 moving is no issue. Sometimes a ship might bump into another ship because its a bit big but that is easily avoidable.

Let me illustrate with my experience: 800 points game, my sorylian vs drinzezi fleet. My forces: Battleship with scort, carrier with a scort, squad of 4 cruisers, and squad of 6 frigates. In 2 hours, we played 3 turns only, caused basically by 2 concrete factors:

The first one, I am very noob and when I shooted the weapons or my ships took damage, I needed to check the stats on my fleets book.

The second one, I spend around 5 minutes to move properly the entire frigate squads, since to do "in a good way" I must move each frigate individually, the first one was easy, but the others.....trying to make a turn and the template and bases displace other bases, big troubles to align all frigates (which started the movement in a perfect formation in two lines of 3 frigates each) to perform a good shoot to enemy ship, cause with the scenery I used and the other ships didn't allow me to place the template in a correct way....with the four cruisers, similar problems, but since they are only four, it only took around 3 minutes to move them in a correct way....so, to move 2 squads, I needed around 8 minutes, while the carrier or battleship I just needed 40 seconds to move them.....you see the problem now? in a competitive point of view, 800 points (an small game) requires around 1 hour just to move your ships, if the enemy has similar fleet composition, 2 hours only for moving....that makes impossible to play the game in an acceptable range of time.....instead, if the movement was simpler, if I spend 40 seconds to move my 6 frigates, and other 30 seconds to move my cruiser squad, Im saving around 6 minutes per turn, which is traduced in 36 minutes per game, plus the other 36 minutes saved by my opponent....more than an hour saved if useless templates are removed of this game. Instead, is easy to allow to perform X turns per movement (attending to the ship type and MARs), up to 45 or 90 degrees, or keeping the template (with other design, similar to the plastic templates shown in this post) but just moving one ship (leader) and then placing the other ships of  the squad in coherency with the leader.....both systems are simpler, accelerates the game and keep the strategic point of movement.

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Most frigates should go to measuring stem to stem and then a free pivot. This would speed the movement phase up while leaving the 22nd and 131st their ships moving as they do. Secondly the 0 turn ships will not get to snake free movement as the worse offenders of this exploit.

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8 hours ago, alextroy said:

As I said, Capturing Ships is a niche rule. Outside of Directorate Grand Theft Starship builds, it's not really a rule used by most factions. Do we really need all these rules for this one niche use?

And all these things can be accomplished by changing the Targeted Strike rules. Boarding is the mechanism, not the result. They could eliminate boarding and give a different mechanism for the result, allowing them to eliminate stats and pages of rules

Note: I don't really care if Boarding stays or goes. I'm just trying to figure out why it should stay if it is becoming more and more like a weapon system.

a niche rule you say? ever heard of pathogen? its a whole capture ships faction. i always board with sorylians aswell. every game i have at least 4-5 boarding attempts! relthoza can make grand theft lists aswell. quite easily aswell with biohazard on all their ships. ba'kash are boarders aswell. and terquai also. so how is it a niche again? boarding always tries to capture a ship and if you do not enough damage basicly do a targeted strike depending on where your boarding party landed. sure you choose your target first. you have to, that makes sense aswell.

 

2 hours ago, Aetius88 said:

Let me illustrate with my experience: 800 points game, my sorylian vs drinzezi fleet. My forces: Battleship with scort, carrier with a scort, squad of 4 cruisers, and squad of 6 frigates. In 2 hours, we played 3 turns only, caused basically by 2 concrete factors:

The first one, I am very noob and when I shooted the weapons or my ships took damage, I needed to check the stats on my fleets book.

The second one, I spend around 5 minutes to move properly the entire frigate squads, since to do "in a good way" I must move each frigate individually, the first one was easy, but the others.....trying to make a turn and the template and bases displace other bases, big troubles to align all frigates (which started the movement in a perfect formation in two lines of 3 frigates each) to perform a good shoot to enemy ship, cause with the scenery I used and the other ships didn't allow me to place the template in a correct way....with the four cruisers, similar problems, but since they are only four, it only took around 3 minutes to move them in a correct way....so, to move 2 squads, I needed around 8 minutes, while the carrier or battleship I just needed 40 seconds to move them.....you see the problem now? in a competitive point of view, 800 points (an small game) requires around 1 hour just to move your ships, if the enemy has similar fleet composition, 2 hours only for moving....that makes impossible to play the game in an acceptable range of time.....instead, if the movement was simpler, if I spend 40 seconds to move my 6 frigates, and other 30 seconds to move my cruiser squad, Im saving around 6 minutes per turn, which is traduced in 36 minutes per game, plus the other 36 minutes saved by my opponent....more than an hour saved if useless templates are removed of this game. Instead, is easy to allow to perform X turns per movement (attending to the ship type and MARs), up to 45 or 90 degrees, or keeping the template (with other design, similar to the plastic templates shown in this post) but just moving one ship (leader) and then placing the other ships of  the squad in coherency with the leader.....both systems are simpler, accelerates the game and keep the strategic point of movement.

i still do not get why you dont just use a tapemeasure for straight movements and if you need to turn you just move 1 inch less and then use the template to turn? also most of the time you just move one ship and then move the rest accordingly. there are tricks to do that easily and properly with the needed amount of accuracy. even though you will not need the amount of accuracy the template provides. if you think about it all your smaller ships like frigates and cruisers have enough turns and movement to get into proper position. use tapemeasures for everything except t1's and you will be more than fine. there are a lot of things you can do if you keep movement patterns in mind. for example frigates with 10 movement and turn 0: you can always stay on your position or move 2 inches to the right/left/front/rear and look into the same direction or 1 inch in any direction and then just turn your front towards the enemy. if you do not believe me think about it again. i never use more than 15 seconds for moving a ship and it is very accurate aswell. i could write an article on how to easily use the movement system with patterns. if you want your ships to stay in coherency at max range between each other (like dindrenzi frigates against nuclear) you just turn your ship once in the beginning move it straight across the wanted distance and then turn the ship to the enemy. does not make a difference if you turn first and move directly or move your 1 inch and turn then, you have the movement value to do a move properly without overthinking it. the only things that need really accurate movement is if a ship is T1 or near mines/terrain. and that does not take to much time and is important for the opponent aswell so they will happily watch how you maneuver your ship into a rock. sometimes the template gets a bit hunky if there is alot of terrain near it. thats why i made my own template (basically the same template just smaller and that solved the problem for me). but its a tabletop and placing the template is like placing a wobbly model on a piece of terrain in other games. it sometimes happens. also you could just look from above at your ship and use the template in the air moving the ship to its proper position. the 1-2 mm wont make a difference later on. its does not have to be exact science in a normal game. i can see that in some tournaments people tend to be dicks about it but then you just to it properly. also you can mark other ships and terrain, remove them quick, move your ship and place them back. i have a template just for removing 40 mm bases for exactly that case. its just a paper cutout of the half of a base. you put it around the base of the ship you have to remove, move your other stuff over it and then just put the ship back in place with the marker. 

btw, even if you need "alot" of time for moving your stuff. why is that a problem in the first place, it is still very quick if i think of the movement phase of other systems. time is just a minor inconvinience if you play a tabletop. it is time consuming and thats what it want to be. you want to waste time with your hobby dont you?

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Totally agree with you neratius. For straight movements of course I use the tape measure, but I found problems specially when i need to perform a complex movement ( f.i. I have my frigates oriented to the enemy deploy zone and i want to achieve the same orientation 7"to the right with a planet or something like that near to the trayectory. In these cases, if I you say that can perform an "not accuracy" movement (4 inches to perform two 90° turns and 7" of movement, considering a 11", 0 turn limit squad), directly placing the ships into the final position (7" to the right oriented to the enemy deploy zone)....then i have no problem with that, since as you said, to perform that kind of movement a very short time is required...and only using the template for individual  or turn limit 1+ ships. The problem comes when no space available appears to place the turning template, due to your ships, or enemy ships, are situated near to your active ships... Another thing is related to the mines, it could be implemented any source to destroy it when they are placed ( shooting on them I mean. .) Because at this moment mines only are removed when a ship pass near to them...isn't it?

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The problem with boarding is that you now have a whole separate stat and mechanics, wildly different from main combat rules, for what is essentially targeted strike with a chance to destroy the ship outright(capturing). Is it really worth the extra hassle instead of making it a short-ranged weapon called "boarding"?

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49 minutes ago, Aetius88 said:

Totally agree with you neratius. For straight movements of course I use the tape measure, but I found problems specially when i need to perform a complex movement ( f.i. I have my frigates oriented to the enemy deploy zone and i want to achieve the same orientation 7"to the right with a planet or something like that near to the trayectory. In these cases, if I you say that can perform an "not accuracy" movement (4 inches to perform two 90° turns and 7" of movement, considering a 11", 0 turn limit squad), directly placing the ships into the final position (7" to the right oriented to the enemy deploy zone)....then i have no problem with that, since as you said, to perform that kind of movement a very short time is required...and only using the template for individual  or turn limit 1+ ships. The problem comes when no space available appears to place the turning template, due to your ships, or enemy ships, are situated near to your active ships... Another thing is related to the mines, it could be implemented any source to destroy it when they are placed ( shooting on them I mean. .) Because at this moment mines only are removed when a ship pass near to them...isn't it?

as i already said there are quick workarounds for that aswell. if there is not enough space to use the quite big original template just make one yourself. i do agree that the template made of paper is very big and unnecessary big aswell. what i did is i made the same template with only 2 inches on the longer side. that helps actually alot. you also could make a "stick" with a 45° bend on the end to make it even more easier. or you could just do what i already assumed everyone is doing and use a 90° paper cutout to put it around the intervening model's base, remove it and then move the ship you need to move accordingly. then just put the ship back in its original spot and continue as normal. those cases do happen i admit but are rather "rare" in every game i would say that it happens once. but honestly doing that for one movement phase each game on average is not a kind of hassle that you have to change the movement system in general. also avoiding mines with movement can be done in the same fashion. you know where you want to move to and you can premeasure the "mine-bubble". so moving around it is not hard with enough movement value. if you have to move through mines you either did make a mistake in the first place or someone dropped them right in your squad. either way, your squad is probably done. i do not see a problem there at all. just keep your ships out of proximity.

in general, if 90 of your movement works with the current system just fine and only 10% is a bit more exact or complicated changing the system itself is the wrong way. providing smaller templates and/or templates to quickly remove your ships from the table for those cases is much more usefull. same goes for terrain except terrain is pretty much very simplified in fsa so you either use a flat field made out of printed paper or if you want to use those cute rocks SG sells just put a dice or piece of paper at the position of the field part and replace it after finishing movement.

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Pok hits the nail on the head here. We have currently two different systems that do pretty much the same thing (Targeted Strikes and Boarding), with the caveat that Targeted Strikes can also cause Critical Hit results to appear and Boarding may occasionally result in a capture (currently). Simple solution to reduce the page count while keeping the base mechanic? Roll Targeted Strike and Boarding together, or just eliminate Boarding. Removing the ability to capture ships also makes a lot of sense to me. As for SRS and PD Mountain, the more I see and hear about it, the more I think it would be best to just get rid of Interceptors altogether. Keep Fighters as the Jack of all Trades, remove the PD from Bombers, ditch Assault Shuttles and keep Support Shuttles as is. Simples. 

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14 minutes ago, Pok said:

The problem with boarding is that you now have a whole separate stat and mechanics, wildly different from main combat rules, for what is essentially targeted strike with a chance to destroy the ship outright(capturing). Is it really worth the extra hassle instead of making it a short-ranged weapon called "boarding"?

actually yes the hassle is worth it i think. first of all things like crew points are used in other mechanics aswell like hazard. with some fleets like tarakians i do prefer flooding the enemy with hazard markers and letting their ships burn to death. the only thing that is exclusive to boarding is ap and that is basically just ad named differently. as it stands now it is already a short ranged weapon system with quick and easy understandable rules. if you change the boarding action to a weapon system you would have to adjust the weapon systems part of the rules to match it properly. so what gives? how would it be more easy to shift it to a weapon system if you cant actually change a thing in terms of "extra" rules. to be honest, it does not even differ from the normal rules that much except for a few things: boarding is last and you combine dice, cant board ships you shot at, and 3x cp = capture. i do not consider just 3 extras and a different name for AD as a wild difference in mechanics. i am fond of change but only where its needed and removing a rule just to put it somewhere else at the same extend is just silly.

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can someone please explain me the hassle with interceptors being so overpowered? i never have an issue with them. there are so many things to counter them properly that i do not see an issue with the srs at all actually. having interceptors lurking around a ship makes it harder to hit with boarding or torps but nothing you cant handle with the right ships or if you use interceptors/fighters yourself.

edit: i did read all of the thread but i still cant find the exact issue everyone has with srs except that they are "op"

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Here is an Idea on how to make boarding different from targeted strike. If your boarding assault is successful you receive intelligence on the enemy and get a +1 to your next initiative role.

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34 minutes ago, Neratius said:

can someone please explain me the hassle with interceptors being so overpowered? i never have an issue with them. there are so many things to counter them properly that i do not see an issue with the srs at all actually. having interceptors lurking around a ship makes it harder to hit with boarding or torps but nothing you cant handle with the right ships or if you use interceptors/fighters yourself.

edit: i did read all of the thread but i still cant find the exact issue everyone has with srs except that they are "op"

I think the big issue is that is that there "isn't" a good way to counter them. For 30 points, I can turn off the torps from anybody I'm playing. I can't target the interceptors at all from range and if I get close enough to use fighters (who even takes fighters?) then I'll be facing all the PD of his surrounding ships before I get to fight interceptors that have more PD than my fighters anyway. My own interceptors can't perform attack runs so I have to be at range band one or less with my ships to even use them against his.

I kinda see torps as mostly a late game weapon to finish off hurt ships. Early on "most" fleets have enough PD to stop them from getting through. With interceptors the way they are, players can easily get more defensive dice than I can even throw AD to begin with. 

 

One of our group had the idea that traditional escorts aren't taken much because they are so much worse than interceptors. What if you could use the escorts as a PD area like interceptors currently grant? It would help with the "mothership" guarding the fleet theme escorts seem to want to have. Interceptors then could be regulated to defending a single ship

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7 minutes ago, Nuck Fewton said:

I think the big issue is that is that there "isn't" a good way to counter them. For 30 points, I can turn off the torps from anybody I'm playing. I can't target the interceptors at all from range and if I get close enough to use fighters (who even takes fighters?) then I'll be facing all the PD of his surrounding ships before I get to fight interceptors that have more PD than my fighters anyway. My own interceptors can't perform attack runs so I have to be at range band one or less with my ships to even use them against his.

I kinda see torps as mostly a late game weapon to finish off hurt ships. Early on "most" fleets have enough PD to stop them from getting through. With interceptors the way they are, players can easily get more defensive dice than I can even throw AD to begin with. 

 

One of our group had the idea that traditional escorts aren't taken much because they are so much worse than interceptors. What if you could use the escorts as a PD area like interceptors currently grant? It would help with the "mothership" guarding the fleet theme escorts seem to want to have. Interceptors then could be regulated to defending a single ship

there are alot of ships usable against interceptors. everything with bigger batteries for example. for sorylians that would be battlecruisers. they are really good as taking out SRS in proximity and are fast enough to get there. they want to be in RB1 anyway as they pack the most punch there. i often use a BC squad to fly in proximity of a carrier and shoot it while the batteries deny their SRS launch. also flak-frigates are beasts on SRS. Everyone says escorts are meh. why are u not using them on your big ships as PD AND SRS counter. they are fast and as long as they stay in coherence use their superior movement to get in range to SRS first to drive them off. also why dont just drop 1 Wing Srs token, engage the interceptors to get them off the field (by pulling them out of coherency?) well you loose your attack with them but compensate with torps galore? if there is a SRS meta just break it. also you could shunt in a squad next to SRS if you wanted to shunt it in anyway, make a instant PD attack and get the off the field or at least damage them good. and fighters are just good in general. they can provide solid PD and have the ability to attack a ship aswell with a solid punch. They are frigate killers if you do not have the scatter to burn them down with bigger ships. SRS spam is a strong list but there are ways to work around it. you also could use the word tactic for it. sometimes you just have to engage a fight from a different angle? all i want to say is that i never strugle against SRS heavy lists because i utilize the mechanics as part of my tactic and use the capability of some ships to scare my opponent into lossing to many SRS quickly by overusing them to early.

TL;DR: There are hard counters to SRS, Fighters are good and underrated, use tactic to engage and Escorts are awesome

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SRS are only an issue if you never get anything close to the case in point if we didn't have interceptors squads of Terran torpedo frogs can delete enemy frigs and dmg cruisers from 3 man units with impunity by shooting from behind cover for example why ever close to rb1 or 2 where people can shoot back while you can spam torps at max range from behind obstructing terrain when you can't be shot back and have shields to block enemy torps interceptors create parity against huge dice pools of indirect fire weapons from outside of range where you can meaningfully return fire. They aren't broken they are inconvient for people who don't want to engage. They are a counter your only spend points on when enemy is abusing something otherwise why spend points on something if normal pd was sufficient.

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1 hour ago, Neratius said:

there are alot of ships usable against interceptors. everything with bigger batteries for example. for sorylians that would be battlecruisers. they are really good as taking out SRS in proximity and are fast enough to get there. they want to be in RB1 anyway as they pack the most punch there. i often use a BC squad to fly in proximity of a carrier and shoot it while the batteries deny their SRS launch. also flak-frigates are beasts on SRS. Everyone says escorts are meh. why are u not using them on your big ships as PD AND SRS counter. they are fast and as long as they stay in coherence use their superior movement to get in range to SRS first to drive them off. also why dont just drop 1 Wing Srs token, engage the interceptors to get them off the field (by pulling them out of coherency?) well you loose your attack with them but compensate with torps galore? if there is a SRS meta just break it. also you could shunt in a squad next to SRS if you wanted to shunt it in anyway, make a instant PD attack and get the off the field or at least damage them good. and fighters are just good in general. they can provide solid PD and have the ability to attack a ship aswell with a solid punch. They are frigate killers if you do not have the scatter to burn them down with bigger ships. SRS spam is a strong list but there are ways to work around it. you also could use the word tactic for it. sometimes you just have to engage a fight from a different angle? all i want to say is that i never strugle against SRS heavy lists because i utilize the mechanics as part of my tactic and use the capability of some ships to scare my opponent into lossing to many SRS quickly by overusing them to early.

TL;DR: There are hard counters to SRS, Fighters are good and underrated, use tactic to engage and Escorts are awesome

Bigger batteries is nice but uncommon at best and it still puts you in RB 1. Flak frigates are hard to justify, I play relthoza and if I take a squad of say 3 Ichneumnon frigs with upgraded PD, I can only target SRS and probably won't make my 90 points back before they are eaten as easy BL or victory points.

I think building a list with a single wing of fighters/bombers is....not optimal? First off, the interceptor token doesn't HAVE to go after that wing and probably shouldn't. Second, with how interceptors are stuck in the middle of enemy formations, your single wing is gonna eat a lot of PD before it even gets there.

I get your point and maybe it doesn't come up as often in your group but I also think you have 4PD escorts in the lizard fleet and ships that like to be at point blank as well.

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