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Units that need adjustment

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@Nicius I do agree with you somewhat but the Tourbillon has a lot of benefits. Every Ship degrades with damage and even though the Tourbillon degrades quick it tough to damage in the first place when obscured. It can take on multiple targets in a turn, has some weapon systems that ignore damage. The big damage weapon system on it have hight AD pools than a lot of other large flyers and if positioned well can have two salvos of them.  And it can stay alive very well saving on victory points. It almost always gets its points back and more and if someone uses more than one good luck trying to take both of them down. 

Thats why I believe a small change is enough where its still very effective but doesn't make it useless. 

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4 hours ago, Merlin said:

Following on from my comments above, my next unit adjustment suggestion is that the Faust needs the All-Purpose designation. This one change boost two models in one go, the Robot and the Aufseher Airship. 

 

Since Land is so unpopular, this awesome looking airship is just a waste of space in the catalogue, and this is only because of its cargo. Give the Faust All Purpose and it can be used for once.

 

Then again, I am still in the position where I believe the Teutonic Order should just be folded into the Prussian Empire Orbat with its Commodore Abilities used as an alternative  set for players to use. 

They don't add anything much over the Prussian Empire, so they serve no purpose.

Surely they could be like the Raj/British relationship?

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50 minutes ago, Hubcap said:

@Nicius I do agree with you somewhat but the Tourbillon has a lot of benefits. Every Ship degrades with damage and even though the Tourbillon degrades quick it tough to damage in the first place when obscured. It can take on multiple targets in a turn, has some weapon systems that ignore damage. The big damage weapon system on it have hight AD pools than a lot of other large flyers and if positioned well can have two salvos of them.  And it can stay alive very well saving on victory points. It almost always gets its points back and more and if someone uses more than one good luck trying to take both of them down. 

Thats why I believe a small change is enough where its still very effective but doesn't make it useless. 

I find that the Tourbillion are often prime targets and compaired to other french larges not that tough. Staying obscured means you're also hitting on 5's instead of 4's so that works both ways.

I do think it is the better of the french carriers but I find it quite balanced actually.

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17 minutes ago, Elessar said:

Surely they could be like the Raj/British relationship?

Currently they are, but the Raj plays very differently to the Britannians.  The Teutonics are no different to their masters, and two of their special units (probably soon to be three or four) the Prussians already have access to without needing the alliance rules. So what purpose does a having a seperate army serve when it's already diluted and plays the same way as it's master..only with Robots? 

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Well what we have now isn't necessarily what we'll have in a little while.

The Teutonic Order was one of the options for an expansion with the Kickstarter, so clearly they have some ideas for them.  If they expand the Teutonic order then they *will* have their own units.  That is something I very much expect to see with the alliance update when we see that.

To say "they're always going to be the same because they are the same now" kind of ignores the fact that Spartan has the freedom to take them in any direction they choose.

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380 is too much personally but i could see some changes like this?:

Up broadsides to 12/10/8/6 (the model has a lot of broadside guns so it fits and its still a Dread so Guns!)

Reduce Rockets back to -/9/9/9 (maybe corrosive? like our Air Core)

Cloud Gen Cost from 20pts to 30pts

Base Cost increase from 300pts to 325/330pts? 

If not changing anything else and keeping every other stat the same i could see it base cost going for 320pts (no added gen options)

I do agree though that at its current state its under priced a bit.

 

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The super robots/fortresses could do with some rebalancing. There's currently a wast distance between the American death dealer and the Prussian wet sausage.

Personally I think the best balanced is the ayakashi. It's good, but it is well balanced in both role and cost when compared to the dread or heavy BB.

The American one is just too good. There's no reason to ever take a dread instead. 

The Prussian one is weak in both configurations and slow as well.

The rest, I think, falls somewhere in between those two.

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Yeah, when it comes to Dreadbots/Robofortresses, they should have the following definitely done:

-they can be Prized,even if they're Robot models

-they need to have a "low speed" marker on them to use special firing attacks (for example, the M.O.P. should need to brace itself to keep its barrels steady, and accurately reach rb5)

-they need a limit on either how many you can field, or what points-level they can be fielded at. They're supposed to be relatively rare.

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As a playtester, and having seen the stats for the 2 new strike bombers for the KOB and EOTBS, the FSA Avion needs a fix to put it in line with these as well as the Zeroster. 

Drop the pack tactics bombs and raise the bomb bay from 3 to 4. This way it can still threaten stuff after taking some losses in the squad...

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Hi there. Thought i'd throw my thoughts in to the mix. I play Italians and Britannians.

Nation: Italians

Model: Affontadore

Problem: It is just too damn good for the points. you get 4 activations and it is pretty much the battleship in firepower.

Suggestions: I would reduce the main & upper guns to the Light cruiser weapons to make the ship more of a supporting choice rather than the Battleship with a flight deck on top. i'd then reduce the points cost to about 200 and probably reduce the SV as well.

 

Nation: Kingdom of Britannia

Model: Eagle War Rotor 

Problem: It misses a bit of firepower and is a bit slow.

Suggestions: I'd suggest "Advanced Engines +2" rather than an actual movement boost to make people choose between speed and lining up a bombing run. I would also suggest maybe switching the turrets to the heavy ones found on the Monarch battleship. I don't think this would warrant a points increase though.

 

Nation: Kingdom of Britannia

Model: Doncaster Bomber

Problem: My issue with this bomber is that it is useless in land games.

Suggestions: A simple fix would be to give it an option to switch the torpedoes for bomb bays. I wouldn't give them area bombardment, that should remain the Halifaxes remit.

 

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One more addition to this list (admittedly, it is a big one)

 

The entirety of the PLC naval Orbat.

 

It's bad when a PLC player has to admit that it's way too powerful. But that's exactly what one of my friends says about them. They are just too cheap for the speed and power they have. They are essentially the Danish on steroids. They are cheap glass cannons, without the glass thanks to the shields.

 

Solution: they need an appropriate points increase on many units, or their guns need toning down. 

 

I know this will probably be a controversial suggestion, considering they were pretty bad before last year's Orbat update, but they got too good in the update and need toning down a bit.

 

And other faction that needs a points increase or two on some models are the Royal Australians. The Devastating Turrets on everything is very powerful and I think one or two units are too cheap with those munitions attached.

Namely the Battleship and the Tenders. 

 

Just a slight points increase is needed on the Royal Aussie units. 

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Merlin,

Now that's an interesting post.  And I will quickly admit that I haven't given the topic much thought, but of my 4 fleets (Chinese, KoB, Russian and PLC) my PLC is exactly that - 4th choice.  And I do play the game a fair bit - I was having a "count-up" the other week (I have to keep a diary of all my gaming dates) and I'd played 57 games of D Wars between our annual event last year and this year's one 2 weekends ago.  So it's not like I'm basing my thoughts on just a handfull of games.

Again, I suppose it all comes down to personal preferrance and what your local gaming group happens to specialise in.  Maybe we need to get out there and play against more folks - now wouldn't that be good?  But increasing the points cost of PLC units?  I'd never take them out of the box.  Same happened to my Novgorod frigates when they went from 25 to 30 points and lost an AP.  Used to use them all the time, I don't think I've had a sqn of them on the table since the revision.

And then again - maybe that's just me.  I still use my Zhanmadao (why wouldn't I?) and, while "disappointed" by it's point hike, it was more than compensated for by the 5 point reduction in the cost of the Nu - my buddies were really upset by that one - no mention of the Zhan's big hike - but that's wargamers for you; moan about their increasing costs, your decreasing costs, and never mention their buffs, your nerfs.  Or should I have said "human nature"?

So as things stand just now, I DO use my PLC.  But they are my 4th choice.  Don't think I need to say much more really - apart from really looking forward to the new release!!!

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@Hubcap I am mainly a KoB player, so I'll start with that. First off some underlying rules:

1) It has to be some effect that is equally applicable across all theaters of war

2) It has to be independent of TAC cards.

3) It should be flavorful and at least one of it should see common usage.

 

For KoB, as their theme is being tanky and stubbornly holding on despite losses, these are my thoughts, without going into specifics:

1) A re-rollable Shield ability for a squadron within X" of the commodore / increase shield value by Y within X" of commodore

2) Commodore vessel can fire auxiliary defenses for anti boarding fire / counter attacks at full strength for a turn

3) If we are still sticking to Indirect Fire as a theme, then allow Indirect Fire without Spotters for a turn.  Once per game.

4) For a game turn, all weapons are Redoubtable - this will no doubt impact the land game more, as well as the various (S) weapons available. Once per game.

5) Automatic pass of status effect removal rolls for a game turn. Once per game.  

 

 

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On 31.3.2017 at 10:04 PM, Hubcap said:

380 is too much personally but i could see some changes like this?:

Up broadsides to 12/10/8/6 (the model has a lot of broadside guns so it fits and its still a Dread so Guns!)

Reduce Rockets back to -/9/9/9 (maybe corrosive? like our Air Core)

Cloud Gen Cost from 20pts to 30pts

Base Cost increase from 300pts to 325/330pts? 

If not changing anything else and keeping every other stat the same i could see it base cost going for 320pts (no added gen options)

I do agree though that at its current state its under priced a bit.

What exactly makes You feel the Vauban underpriced? When building fleets,  the choice between Vauban and Charlemagne is very hard for me.  I rarely won or lost a game because of a Vauban. It does not have that much firepower, and it tends to be priced in the late game. I do agree that some upgrades are to too cheap and that some models are not viable without specific upgrades. One of those upgrades is the cloud generator. I would like to see many RoF large and massive ships become cheaper, but the the cloud generator upgrade becoming more expensive. This way fielding ships without the cloud generator option would become a real alternative solution. If the designer team prefers to make the cloud generator compulsary, then include it in the models´ basic points. This makes fleet building easier. The same applies to Russian target jammer options.

Quote

Anyone complaining about the nakatsu needs their head examined, it's an excellent light cruiser.

A lot of the fixes suggested here are just "buff my faction plz

I think insulting the users that give feedback about their gaming experience and make well founded suggestions to make shelf sitters like Nakatsu viable is the wrong way. Sometimes a little tweak is all it needs to make a model viable compared to other ones. I personally am not dependant on making certain models viable, because I already own all available models of all the major factions. I just feel sad that many nice models do not get played because of ill balanced rules. If You happen to response to the arguments made instead of just making populistic remarks, we will gladly discuss.

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Units that seem too good to me:

Mobile Fortifications:

Ayakashi: the rocket upgrade should be more expensive, because it does a lot of damage and makes the basic version obsolete. I think +40 points instead of +20 points would be fine.

Restitution: the basic version should increase by 30 points. This thing is just too cheap for what it does.

(Mme Liberté seems to expensive to me. The other dreadbots seem in a good place to me.)

 

Savannah sky fortress: No other model in the game is nearly that sturdy for the points. There is just no reasonable way of bringing this thing down, and You have to because it is a carrier (9) with good weaponry. It is really frustrating to play against, especially if it is the admiral vessel. Decrease AP to 8, decrease AA to 8. This way at least it becomes somewhat vulnerable to boarding when damaged. Alternatively, increase its points cost by +10 to +15.

Saratoga fleet carrier: This carrier is extremely cheap for a stable carrier (9) with reasonable weaponry. I think it should be 5-10 points more.

Fettah cruiser: No other 55 point cruiser offers nearly as much as the Fettah. It should be 5 points more. Even at 60 points it would still be very good.

Gewitterwolke: Good weapons, stable, spotter, good at boarding and hard to board itself for little points. Make it more vulnerable, or make it 5-10 points more.

Zhanmado: This sturdy thing throws flames and rockets at full firepower until it lost its last HP. The heavy flamethrower should go from tertiary to secondary and redoutable.

Luxing air bombard: Very high firepower for little cost. This unit often just needs 1 shot at RB3 to earn back its points. It even has very good AA that makes it hard to board and a good hunter of TFT, while a full unit is a frightening boarder at 16 APs. The bombs are strong as well. Luxing is a no brainer and an auto include in all lists. Decrease the air bombard to 0-6-6-0, decrease the bomb bay to 6, decrease AA to 3.

Tunguska: This thing still seems too cheap to me, even after the price increases. Make it even somewhat or expensive, I think by +5 to +10 points.

Indus heavy destroyer: This thing is fast, packs a lot of punch, is very good at boarding and hard to destroy. This is too much for just 45 points. Rushing theese little monsters into the enemy to wreck havoc does require little tactics. Make them somewhat slower (10" instead of 11") an decrease AA to 2. This makes it harder to apply all those benefits, and gives the opponent time to intercept them.

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@Lifegiver As with most of us we are basing what we believe may need tweaks based on how they have played in games. For me the Vauban has yet to sink or be boarded for me which saves on VP and I havent lost a game with it yet. Though its guns degrade with damage rockets do not so there is some toughness there and a bit of late game firepower. Also if you notice I didn't suggest weapons be downgraded but actually increased (Broadside increase) or changing what a weapon does (Rockets with corrosive). It has the firepower of Battleship and rightfully so.

Then it has the added benefit of being a carrier with the capacity of a fleet carrier. This gives the beauty the ability to adapt to the game as well as add activation tokens.

These are the reasons I believe the Vauban needs some change. 

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 I would like to see many RoF large and massive ships become cheaper, but the the cloud generator upgrade becoming more expensive. This way fielding ships without the cloud generator option would become a real alternative solution.

  I completely agree with this. I would take the Fury Generator option much more if this were the case or just field more units with no generators.     

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