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Wolfchild

Torpedoes fired while wavelurking

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This is probably something that has been addressed soooo many times before and likely should appear in a faction specific FAQ:

I find the wording only a tiny bit ambiguous: in DigiAdmiral p130 for Wave lurking it states that all "lower weapons are ALWAYS treated as Partially Blocked" when wave lurking. 

My understanding is that only includes 'lower' as in weapons listed as raised or 'lower', not including the indiscriminate particle accelerator (always 5+ and only against submerged vessels if wavelurking) and not including torpedoes that will count as submerged but are not listed specifically as 'lower'.

Am I right?

Eg.1: Wavelurking vessel targets surface vessel with it's torpedoes. It is NOT partially blocked, but is at 5+ to hit due to the height band modifier.

Eg.2: If a surface vessel were to target a submerged vessel with it's torpedoes they would be both partially blocked (shooting surface to submerged) AND 5+ to hit due to height band difference (unless it has Subkiller MAR or similar)

One final check:

Eg.3: Wave lurking vessel is -1 to hit when targeted by surface/aerial, but does NOT trigger partially blocked as it isn't fully submerged. (Counts as small target for LOS)

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Wavelurking only partially blocks weapons listed as "lower".

Torpedoes will count as submerged.

Particle accelerators are special.

So, a Diophantus is wavelurking and decides to bring peace to the seas by picking on an enemy cruiser. It fires its PA, but it counts as submerged and therefore only affects the submerged height band. Annoyed at this error, the Diophantus fires its broadsides at another enemy to make itself feel better. Its raised broadsides are unaffected by the wavelurking, but its lower broadsides count as partially blocked. Finally, it fires its torpedoes at the enemy cruiser in front of it. They are not partially blocked (since they are not a "lower" weapon) but count as submerged, thus they hit on a 5+ rather than a 4+.

The Diophantus then receives a face full of fire from the enraged enemies, but anything targeting it without the sub-killer rule (which makes it ignore wavelurking) is suffering a -1 to hit penalty.

As a final note, torpedoes always have the sub-killer rule, which means they are not partially blocked when firing at or from properly underwater targets. Sub-killer is not the same as hunter submerged though, so such weapons suffer the negative to hit penalties as normal.

 

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Thank you @Thamoz

So just to clarify I expect read u correctly:

'Lower' weapons (eg. broadsides) while wavelurking firing on a surface vessel are both partially blocked and at -1 to hit due to height banding?

Torpedoes from wavelurking to surface suffer no penalties (not partially blocked and not at -1 due to sub-killer)?

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Lower weapons are only considered partially blocked, they are still surface to surface so do not take the -1 height band difference.  It is only the torpedoes and PA that are considered submerged, all other weapons are considered surface.

The torpedoes from wave lurking to surface suffers the -1 to hit from height band change.  The sub-killer allows the torpedo to avoid the partially blocked penalty, not the height band change penalty.  A torpedo fired from wave lurking at a submerged model would suffer no penalty. 

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I have avoided playing against the CoA. Bad experiences and annoyance under 1.3.

So a Deathbringer fires at a RB 4 wavelurker  with 10 dice, high payload.

Torpedo bombers would get their dice and a +2 to hit? Or not because part of the ship is on the surface? Dive bombers get their +1 then?

Area Bombardment would be 5-6 to hit, no shields, no height modifier, no defensive modifiers at all. Since part of the model is on the surface.

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So torp bombers hit on straight dice, no -1 for waveluker due to sub killer, but also no +2 as sub hunter doesn't apply either?

Dive bombers as normal due to surface target, so surface hunter +1 is cancelled out by waveluker -1.

Area bombardment is indiscriminate so 5+ no modifiers.

I dunno what a Deathbringer is so not sure.

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Death bringer is the Black Wolfe large sub

It has Torps it can launch while dived that can reach RB 4 with 10 AD

Some Rule book stuff on Wave Lurking:

  • A Wave Lurking Model uses Torpedoes and Particle Accelerators as if it were occupying the Submerged Height Level, and for these weapons only, is governed by the targeting rules,‘To Hit’ rolls and modi ers as if were occupying the Submerged Height Level. (So attacking corps get sub hunter)

  • Any Model occupying the Surface or Aerial Height Bands targeting a Wave Lurking Model suffers a -1 ‘To Hit’ modifier, unless using a weapon with the Sub Killer MAR.

  • A Wave Lurking Model counts as a Small Size Model on the Surface Height Level for the purposes of Line of Sight (see Page 52). 

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@CDR_G In the 1st point it says the wave lurking model "uses" those weapons as if it were submerged. At no point does it claim to be 'targeted' or 'treated' as if it were submerged from submerged models. So as a target it still effectively counts as a surface target. But is only 'small' to surface and aerial attackers.

 

I grant u the distinction is subtle and the wording not as clear as it could be. Hence why I started the thread in the 1st place.

Edited by Wolfchild
Additional info n being more polite

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