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DorianManhattan

Anyone ever played a giant Jutland style naval battle with 10+ BBs on each side?

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Somewhere there is a topic with the title Gurnsey in it which refers to a large battle for Guernsey that took place over the course of a day and a night, i think. I wasn't there as it was before I was introduced to dystopian wars but @Thamoz maybe able to comment, if it doesn't send him into a corner curled up in a ball...

from what I under stand it might have been similar in size to what you're suggesting.

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The largest fight I have been part of was alliance vs alliance with 5000 points a side.  We used the regular 2.0 rules and a 10 X 4 table.  Started at 9am and called it middle of turn three at 11pm.  Actually had very few battleships.  Several dreads per side and more cruisers can you care to count. 

One highlight was the screaming charge of twenty KoB/Raj/FSA corvettes slingshot by two time flow generators.  The other was three Chinese aerial carriers covering entire squadrons with repeated napalm generators.

If you ever do a mass battle like this:

  • Have a referee
  • A table this large we had two players on the same side activating simultaneously.
  • Pizza
  • A lot of pizza
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I think you're looking at some thing closer to 10-12k points. Does that imply a 24*4 sized table?

The British had 28 battleships, 9 battlecruisers, 8 armoured cruisers, 26 light cruisers and 78 destroyers. The Germans something like 2/3rds the number of ships.

I'm not sure how like Jutland it would be. You've obviously got different weapon options. You've also got a difference in the ratios of weapons' range to ship movement and the ratio of damage to time take to move. Thirdly, there's the fog of war effect. One of the major issues with Jutland is that Jellicoe a) didn't know where the Germans were, B) often didn't know where his own ships were and because he was very concerned with the strategic effect of losing his fleet was c) cautious about falling in to the trap he knew that Scheer was trying to lay.

Being like Jutland isn't important so long as the game is fun but I think it would be very different.

In order to make it playable I wonder if you could divide up a 24*4 table in to 6 separate 4*4 sections, have three active non-adjacent sections,  and have two active players in each section.

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Fleet action speeds the game up mostly by allowing damage spike higher and making carrier/SAW work differently as well as removing critical effects. Things die quicker and there are less fiddly bits of the game to take into account. It also makes a few other changes of course, but I agree with Veldrain for the most part. DW 2.0 is a lot more interesting to play. I would expect this to be especially the case with a big battleship game, since the crit effects would have more of an impact on the game. 

The (great and glorious) battles for Guernsey were hard fought affairs that seperated the men from the boys. The men went home and slept like sensible people whilst the boys played with toy ships from 9pm until 4am. 8 or 10k a side battles with 3 sides (Coalition, bond and noble, enlightened people) and many players per side. Objectives rather than fleet orders, multiple players activating at the same time and a commander who found out the hard way why you don't drive heavy battleships over reefs. Massive table. Land, sea and aerial forces. A dose of port at the beginning to salute those who would not make it through. And pizza. Lots of pizza. At its end, grown men littered the shop floor, curled up in exhausted repose. Only the most resilient survived the night unscathed. Only Fire@Will was still a lively and chipper chap when the sun arose, apparently due to years of training and preparation raising new humans.

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The most points I can recall on a side was in the 5,000+/- range and it took all of one day and still ended essentially in a tie after maybe(?) 5-6 turns.

I've played real Jutland out twice using 1/6000 miniatures  with General Quarters 2 and a variation of Battle Stations/Battle Stations with the GQ2 taking an all day session and BS/BS finishing in under 5 hours. In both cases the British won handily as historical hindsight allows the Beatty player to not get separated from Evan Thomas and the 4 Queen Elizabeth class thus the German BC's get walloped at range and the  Jellicoe player knows he has such as massive advantage that he can play it conservative. If I did it again I'd make the British players play a lot "blinder" and do more off table map movement as that is the only way the Germans have a chance absent freak dice. The classic wargame conundrum is how do you recreate dumb, in that case Ernie Chatfields bad signaling and Beatty's failure to keep Jellicoe in the loop.

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Looking down at a table vs. having random storms reduce visibility to less then a mile most of the time makes a big difference.

As for Evan Thomas and the 4 Queen Elizabeth class battleships, read how the Germain BC's made the death ride toward the Britsh line and only one German BC was sunk.

There is a first hand account of a 15" shell hitting the Derfflinger's bridge and not penetrating. German BC's had the armor of a British BB.

Of all the Admirals at Jutland only Hipper did his job. Were the British did win is by having their fleet ready in 2 months. The Germans never did repair all of there ships.

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Assuming a model for model representation of Jutland I wonder if you could approximate the communications and visibility issues that Jellicoe had with some method like this.

Starting position, British and German fleets equal in size about 8k points.

The additional British units turn up semi-randomly.

If you have a 24'*4' table you could break the edge up in to 1' or 2' or 3' sections. Some of the additional British squadrons turn up at a pre-determined section of edge but on a random turn. Some turn up at pre-determined turn but at a random table section. Some turn up  at both a random time and random location. Both teams would then know that re-enforcements were coming but not exactly when or where.

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15 hours ago, Lord Nobody said:

Of all the Admirals at Jutland only Hipper did his job. Were the British did win is by having their fleet ready in 2 months. The Germans never did repair all of there ships.

I'm a bit of a Jellicoe fan. His job was not to lose the fleet and therefore the war and therefore the Empire and he managed that.

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20 minutes ago, DorianManhattan said:

How did you do simultaneous turns? 

As described in the Rulebook. One side activates mutliple ships at once (e.g. one per player), and acts normally. Only restriction is to not being allowed to fire at the same target with this multi activation. So the game plays like a 1000 or 1500 point game but with much more stuff on the board.

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