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DorianManhattan

Why did Spartan Games make FSM "politically correct?"

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My opinion:

Having been on the receiving end of racist behaviour I would not want to play a faction which believed in it (yes, I realise it is fictional). I would also question a company which thought writing that sort of fluff 'for fun' is fine. Yes, it can be argued that it mimics beliefs of the time (and that still exist today). But it is not adding anything meaningful to the game.

It is important to incorporate these issues in games which attempt to tackle them. But DW is a game about huge pieces of machinery fighting each other, the geo-political fluff around the factions is second to that.

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9 hours ago, McKinstry said:

Actually it was Antietam. Lincoln had prepared the Emancipation Proclamation and was desperate for a victory to give him the political cover to issue it. McClellan botched a near sure thing and ended up having to call a stalemate achieved despite a 2 to 1 numerical advantage and a copy of Lee's orders a victory but Lincoln took what he could get. The book "Gleam of Bayonets" does a fantastic job on both the battle and the politics.

 

Thank you for the clarification. My wife is the real history buff and corrected me after I posted that.

 

@Ethical Engineer You realize the Confederacy's colors weren't actually grey? Their uniforms were actually Butternut, a tan color. But then each regiment/company had to provide their own uniforms and each one had its own identity. Then the Confederacy had virtually no industry so although they grew most of the cotton they did not have the textile industry to transform it into uniforms so they weren't able to keep their soldiers clothed... Therefore soldiers would often just wear whatever uniform pieces they were able to scrounge up even if they come from Union soldiers. There were many Confederate soldiers fighting in blue uniforms or clothing.

Then they didn't have spare uniforms so they wore out and severely faded.

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In the DW universe the Industrial Revolution started in the 16th century where it talks about Cromwell.

By the 19th century automation is rampant. The early books talked about giant walking machines performing all of the agricultural work.

Without the need for manual labor there really isn't a need for slavery. The slave industry was viewed by virtually everyone as evil.

In the real life there were a lot of southerners who hated slavery but it was thought as the backbone of their society. They didn't think they could produce without it. But in the DW universe they could. The southern states abolished slavery of their own volition just like it happened in England in real life.

 

When people make a decision for themselves they like the results and want to make it work.

In real life the southern states felt abolition and the destruction of their way of life was being forced on them by external forces. That made them defensive and retreat into familiarity.

Then there was the botched reconstruction after Lincoln's assassination. The southern states felt oppressed and punished. That led to more tensions as well.

 

You really can't judge the DW world with your biases from real life. The DW world was slowly differentiating since the 16th century and so many of our biases and situations are developed based on our collective experiences. When those experiences change so do attitudes.

 

If the FSA (or CSA) is more accepting of racial diversity then I'm not going to worry about it. I have wondered why Spartan uses the Union color scheme for the FSA instead of either butternut or grey. 

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Given the joyful atmosphere of this thread, I'd like to thank Spartan for the whitewashing (bad word, I know, but please just hold on for a moment and keep reading) of the Italian hist... whops sorry, I meant "real world fluff" :) .

Seriously.

I mean, in the 1870s we were just a bunch of squabbling small states, united through force ten years before, used to be invaded by... well, let's be honest, by anyone
But, look! In DW we are a bada$$ league with an elitist army (the Italians ELITE?!? Aww, come on, it was WWII and our soldiers still didn't even have shoes!) , half mercenaries, half corsairs, 100% stylish.
Fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. 

Thanks, Spartan. You make us proud, that's why we love you. :wub:

Happy Valentine's Day! Kisses and hugs from Italy (but since after the fall of the Roman Empire, we never had slaves any more, sorry OP :( )

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On 2/12/2017 at 5:36 PM, roadkizzle said:

I'm only responding to your response to the poster you quote because I don't want to get into current events.

The ACW was fought to keep the country united. That is the reason Lincoln and the North didn't let the Confederacy peacefully secede. They understood that the country would be stronger together and they would face position in the future.

BUT. The reason the southern states seceded was most romantically stated as "states rights". But that really doesn't tell the story. What rights were the states worried about the federal government infringing on? Look at the different states Declaration of Secessions to see. They stated the rights that they were worried about. Most of them explicitly state that they are primarily concerned about the Federal Government removing their rights to their property. Then they explicitly state that the property they are worried about is the slaves that were owned. And they were worried about their "peculiar institution of slavery"

It wasn't until the battle of Gettysburg that Lincoln decided to start fighting to abolish slavery. But even then there was more to it than that.

 

By the way. I have lived in Texas my whole life.

I largely agree

but most historians believe if the acw had not occurred, slavery would have likely faded in the south for economic inefficiency reasons. It persisted as long as it did because southern land owners needed workers for the field, something harder to industrialized than northern factories. In a sci-fi backdrop with robots, the south could have developed machines to harvest and plant, like we have today, and done away with slavery. A war to gain such technology and resources would have been, might have been worthwhile 

 

edit: didn't see your second post, which seems to say same as I just posted.

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7 hours ago, fracas said:

I largely agree

but most historians believe if the acw had not occurred, slavery would have likely faded in the south for economic inefficiency reasons. It persisted as long as it did because southern land owners needed workers for the field, something harder to industrialized than northern factories. In a sci-fi backdrop with robots, the south could have developed machines to harvest and plant, like we have today, and done away with slavery. A war to gain such technology and resources would have been, might have been worthwhile 

 

edit: didn't see your second post, which seems to say same as I just posted.

Definitely slavery would have faded. In fact I was reading a book called "A Soldier's Recollections: Leaves from the Diary of a Young Confederate". It was written by a man who enlisted in the confederate army. From Baltimore and studying at the University of Virginia but dropped out to fight for his country.

It starts out by him talking about how bills to abolish slavery had been getting progressively more votes throughout the South, and that the public opinion of it was quickly turning against the institution...

But the Southern states are very proud and when they felt the Northern states were trying to force abolition on them the Southern states got defensive and entrenched their support for slavery.

 

If left to their own devices slavery probably wouldn't have lasted until probably 1865-1870 and if it was something the states chose for themselves they wouldn't have fought against it. There may have still been Jim Crow laws because even though the Yankees hated slavery they severely disliked people not of their race.

Lincoln emancipated the slaves but his plans when you look at his letters and statements were to kick all of the former slaves out of the United States and ship them all to the Caribbean or back to Africa.

 

But if it was an amicable abolition of slavery there would have been much less resistance and more acceptance providing a much better foundation for future relations.

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On 14/02/2017 at 6:02 AM, Venter said:

Given the joyful atmosphere of this thread, I'd like to thank Spartan for the whitewashing (bad word, I know, but please just hold on for a moment and keep reading) of the Italian hist... whops sorry, I meant "real world fluff" :) .

Seriously.

I mean, in the 1870s we were just a bunch of squabbling small states, united through force ten years before, used to be invaded by... well, let's be honest, by anyone
But, look! In DW we are a bada$$ league with an elitist army (the Italians ELITE?!? Aww, come on, it was WWII and our soldiers still didn't even have shoes!) , half mercenaries, half corsairs, 100% stylish.
Fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. 

Thanks, Spartan. You make us proud, that's why we love you. :wub:

Happy Valentine's Day! Kisses and hugs from Italy (but since after the fall of the Roman Empire, we never had slaves any more, sorry OP :( )

Well, given the current fluff, I'd say its back to squabbling states with you;)

Although you do get to keep the elite soldiers and classy ships, so there's that at least

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11 hours ago, Erwl said:

Well, given the current fluff, I'd say its back to squabbling states with you;)

:(

Good things don't last...

11 hours ago, Erwl said:

Although you do get to keep the elite soldiers and classy ships, so there's that at least

YAY! :D

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