Jump to content
Thamoz

Descartes - I sink, therefore I am.

Recommended Posts

On 25/02/2017 at 0:56 AM, Nazduruk_Bugzappa said:

Given that the new models use "submerged" bases instead of the acrylic wavelurker template, does this mean that some of the other nations' submarines are going to be able to partially submerge?

Although I like the look of the submerged bases, it's a shame that it means they take up that much more space on the board.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I wait for my shiny new boats to arrive, here's a thought potential argument: The Descartes MkI 'Harrier' Battleship is, despite her classification, the only true battlecruiser in Dystopian Wars.

Whiile DW battlecruisers fulfill a variety of roles- Generator support by the Hippasus, long range gunnery from the Hood- and some even get close to the concept of the battlecruiser, such as the Mizuchi, none of them really take to heart the concept of 'outrun what you can't outgun'. The Descartes, meanwhile, has close to a true battleship's throw weight (by CoA standards), and with a potential 14" move, can certainly outrun most threats. While some Battlecruisers manage nearly BB AD levels, their speed is often the smallest increment necessary to claim to be faster than a battleship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Sebenko said:

While I wait for my shiny new boats to arrive, here's a thought potential argument: The Descartes MkI 'Harrier' Battleship is, despite her classification, the only true battlecruiser in Dystopian Wars.

Whiile DW battlecruisers fulfill a variety of roles- Generator support by the Hippasus, long range gunnery from the Hood- and some even get close to the concept of the battlecruiser, such as the Mizuchi, none of them really take to heart the concept of 'outrun what you can't outgun'. The Descartes, meanwhile, has close to a true battleship's throw weight (by CoA standards), and with a potential 14" move, can certainly outrun most threats. While some Battlecruisers manage nearly BB AD levels, their speed is often the smallest increment necessary to claim to be faster than a battleship.

 

'Great analysis there! I had not really thought yet about BC comparisons, but this is spot on. Previously my favorite BC in terms of role accuracy was Hood due to 10 inch move and "hit and run" MAR. The Italian Minerva running close behind for the same season.....just enough move and I the MAR made them feel right for the traditional role.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hadn't considered the Minerva, and she does seem to fit the role quite well- with firepower, speed and an actual battlecruiser designation, she may be the only ship that could arguably lay better claim to the title of 'true BC'. It could also be considered that battlecruiser thinking applies to the entire Italian fleet, with all their fast, heavily armed designs.

I think the Des MkI does lean closer to that 'ideal' battlecruiser concept, up to looking impressive enough that a less competent admiral might make the mistake of using her as a typical battleship.

Perhaps that idea could allow us to spin an interesting tale about the development of the Descartes- CoA design bureau sets out to design a TRUE BATTLECRUISER, then a year down the line, they step back and what happens to all CoA ships has happened- it's huge and has all the cool things every designer wanted, resulting in something that might just be a battleship. I imagine that in the DW world, something like the Fast Battleship will emerge purely because the CoA did it by accident, not because anyone thought it was a good idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Spartan Josh said:

True story,

During the development of fleet boxes for 2.0 the Diophantus started the design process as a lighter, cheaper carrier than the Pericles! :lol:

Josh

When we were doing the initial tests, it took several tries to get its CV capped permanently at 6

We  wanted each carrier to bring something different to the game  (Pericles brought the numbers, with CV9. Epicurus brought long-range support, with its increased launch radius. Diophantus brought the front-line support with its high DR/CR) then it all got thrown out the window, when the Dio got the CV9 option, and the Epi lost its rule.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 02/03/2017 at 9:28 AM, Sebenko said:

I hadn't considered the Minerva, and she does seem to fit the role quite well- with firepower, speed and an actual battlecruiser designation, she may be the only ship that could arguably lay better claim to the title of 'true BC'. It could also be considered that battlecruiser thinking applies to the entire Italian fleet, with all their fast, heavily armed designs.

I think the Des MkI does lean closer to that 'ideal' battlecruiser concept, up to looking impressive enough that a less competent admiral might make the mistake of using her as a typical battleship.

Perhaps that idea could allow us to spin an interesting tale about the development of the Descartes- CoA design bureau sets out to design a TRUE BATTLECRUISER, then a year down the line, they step back and what happens to all CoA ships has happened- it's huge and has all the cool things every designer wanted, resulting in something that might just be a battleship. I imagine that in the DW world, something like the Fast Battleship will emerge purely because the CoA did it by accident, not because anyone thought it was a good idea.

Isn't this what happened when Homer Simpson designed a car with his estranged brother? Hopefully CoA maintain a lil more finesse lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So my Descartes arrived just now (as I finished magnetising my third Aristotle!).

She is beautiful. Very crisp detail. Also, in grey resin rather than the off-white stuff. The wave lurker/modular parts fit a lot more snugly than previous wave lurkers- to the extent that I'm considering not magnetising the top, as they stay on well enough on their own.

Most importantly, lending credence to my 'actually a battlecruiser' theory, the Descartes waterline length is the same as the Hipassus (though the prow overhangs by a couple of mm, and the beam is wider.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sebenko said:

So my Descartes arrived just now (as I finished magnetising my third Aristotle!).

She is beautiful. Very crisp detail. Also, in grey resin rather than the off-white stuff. The wave lurker/modular parts fit a lot more snugly than previous wave lurkers- to the extent that I'm considering not magnetising the top, as they stay on well enough on their own.

Most importantly, lending credence to my 'actually a battlecruiser' theory, the Descartes waterline length is the same as the Hipassus (though the prow overhangs by a couple of mm, and the beam is wider.

Pics or it didn't... Well, just pictures please!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had a chance to mess around with the models somewhat now, and have a couple of quick notes.

@Spartan Mike, I'm hoping this might be useful to Spartan (and not just the derange rambling of a tiresome obsessive)

I think it might be worth taking a look at how renders are done- comparing the physical model to the renders, it's much more long and sleek than the renders make it appear. Considering that my biggest complaint about a lot of the new ships from their renders is how stubby they look, it seems that the renders are doing the designs a disservice.

The turret mounts don't have the pre-existing holes like the old Aristotle (and many other CoA ships with turrets). This makes magnetising the turrets a little less convenient, as it functioned as a useful guide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Considering the size of battleships like the Ruler, perhaps the Descartes will become the CoA's standard battleship, and the Aristotle will be bumped up to heavy BB- the E-turret version already costs as much as one, and a HBB designation would open up the main turret version to be given a statline worth similar points to the E-turret version.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Wolfchild said:

Slight aside - Why is "BB" for battleship? There's only 1 'b'.

Most ships have 2-3 letters for their designation. Some only make sense if you know history and languages. BB is derived partially from needing 2 letters, and partially because "barque" is French for "ship"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I faced a Mk2 today and it was not pleasant... it's tricky to sink when it's wavelurked, and it's blaster is still full attack dice, it's not easy to board, for a covenant ship. It did most of the heavy lifting in the game for my opponent. Thankfully it wasn't an optimised list otherwise it would have been a bloodbath. After this wonderfully large sample of 1 game I think it's possibly a little undercosted ;-) 

It didn't I managed a win against it, so I guess it can't be too bad...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was thinking of a 1000 point list with two MkIs in it, which looks fun. I haven't bothered with two MkIIs, because it sounds too easy. Haven't had a chance to play with my Descartes yet, but I think you could be right @level9red. I've been thinking "Descartes MkI isn't OP, Descartes MkII isn't UP" is as accurate as I can be with balance at the moment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mk2 is very very powerful. I maintain it is squishy and quite killable (especially since level9red tore it in half with a squadron of arminius then eradicated the poor charred remains with an eider)

It is, however, frighteningly powerful with good dice rolls. At range band 2 I think the average should be something like 14 attack dice on an indiscriminate weapon. it is nice to have a weapon system that can hunt big ships at last. Considering that it is a fairly good boarder, tough to board, and has this rare big weapon... I think it may be a little cheap. Like a lot of our stuff, it should be brilliant yet costly. Currently it is brilliant and economic. Will need to try it out a few more times to be sure, but I am thinking 190 points may be a better place for it.

Also why does it have a Guardian gen? This is the coa, everything with more than 2 hull points is Shielded! This is most unnecessary and does not fit us.

Sorry. That bothered me a little.  I am still thrilled with our new pocket battleships, and the model is lovely. It is almost the size of the hippasus which I think lends credence to the mk1-is-actually-a-battlecruiser argument.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.