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Thamoz

Descartes - I sink, therefore I am.

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I am surprised this topic has not appeared yet!

Finally it seems we have some new large models that don't bring drone to the table! Festooned with energy weapons, wavelurking beneath the waves and hopefully filling some new roles for the CoA; its the Descartes mk1 and 2.

http://www.spartangames.co.uk/three-new-dw-modular-battleships-arrive

So... speculation? Comments? Where are the scientific inquiring minds !

Well, I guess I will start it off.

CoA_Web_Duo_580.jpg

The Mk1 Descartes, described as a 'Harrier' battleship, is an interesting proposition. 3 e-turrets, some torps and apparently the most powerful sturginium laced broadside ever devised, all on a light and fast frame with advanced engines. Oh, and a time flow! (Yay! I love to see our rarer generators deployed a little more!). This battleship strikes me as similar to a battle cruiser in role. Lots of speed, fair amount of firepower. I will be interested to see how this ship matches up against the stalwart Aristotle, it would certainly be nice to have a battleship that doesn't have to stay at RB4 for any chance of survival. The omission of a particle accelerator saddens me, but then any ship without a PA saddens me a little. With the talk of its broadsides, I am hoping they will be devastatingly impressive! We have generally got strong broadsides, so to big them up in the fluff makes me think that they will be the main weapon of this ship rather than its turrets.

The Mk2 Descartes, which is even more exciting than the mk1 in my mind, is an assault battleship! Do we finally have a battleship that can actually close with the enemy and remain unprized?! Sporting an massive energy blaster (which should hopefully mean impressive firepower in rb1 and 2) and a "long range target painter" (it will have to be long ranged to make it effective, lets hope it is!) along with presumably the same broadsides as the Mk1, I think this ship will be able to brawl up close quite effectively. Of course, the big headline will apparently be its boarding ability. Something none of our large/massives are terribly efficient at. I guess we can expect elite crew as standard, a decent number of them and the long range assault MAR (which would be a very welcome addition to our fleet.)

So, two new ships which hopefully wont actively outclass the Aristotle (a problem the new mk1 battleships mostly have with their older versions in other nations orbats) but offer us two new roles to deploy in our fleets. I am happy :D I am particularly enjoying the idea of the mk2 replacing the Prometheus in my charge-up-and-boardkill them lists. In fact the potential ability to take a large/massive model that is both effective and not a dreadnought fills me with joy :D

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I am thrilled to finally see a Covenant player make a thread for these beasts!

Playtesting has been going incredibly well and there have been some solid recent revisions under stress testing that I am penning to PDF. 

I REALLY want to get these stats out within the week to the public. Going to put as much pressure on that as possible... so watch this space!

@Thamoz being that you are such a supportive and veteran Pengiun, and since this thread has made my morning, select a Mk for the Descartes and I will plant a little spoiler in here!

-Mike

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This is definitely the new BB I'm most excited for, CoA is my secondary army, but always very dear to my heart. If I'm entirely honest, I am less excited about the automata boarding enemy ships and more, well... That energy cannon seems awesome. That "focusing lens" on the front makes me really curious how the assembly works, since I'd expect any lens to sit squarely in line between the target and the laser turret. Seems strange that the lens is so low on the ship.

I also wonder whether that lens reaches out of the water when it is wavelurked!

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Careful there Mike, you are making far too good an impression here :P It has to be the Mk2 I chose, it is the most different and most interesting! :D

Presidente, I know, it seems so wrong doesn't it! Maybe they could fit a few small PAs in those torp tubes... :P

 

 

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My thoughts on what I'd like to see/am hopefully expecting from the Descartes:

The MkI will hopefully be the cheap large naval option I keep banging on about- The Aristotle will be the ship to bring if you're pouring points into lasers and PAs, but the Descartes MkI will be the ship of choice if you're going medium/small heavy and want to save as many points as possible from your large requirement. I suspect it will be 6AD E-turrets. The hyped-up broadsides make me think Sturginium Rounds and either 12/10/8/6 spread or the cheapest ship to mount 10/8/6/4. Torps could be anywhere from 6-8, depending on where this sits in the points range. Movement, I'm expecting 8", advanced engines (1"), or perhaps Hit & Run, based on the harrier theme.

The MkII is certainly the more interesting of the two, but I expect the MkI to be the one that features in more of my lists.

1 hour ago, Thamoz said:

Do we finally have a battleship that can actually close with the enemy and remain unprized?!

Nah. I'm expecting our specialised boarding BB to be something typically covenant. And judging from the robot assault launchers, I think it will be pretty out there. Elite crew, in CoA numbers, an extended boarding range (8"? 12"? No idea, this is totally new territory), and terror tactics (X) (Holy ****, they're firing robots at us!). Weapon wise.. either the big turret will be a standard E-turret with AD between the MkI and the Aristotle's linked turret AD, or something like the Energy Guns on the Capek/Hyperbius, with great AD at RB1/2 and nothing at RB3/4. I expect the TP gen will have a range of 16", unless the generator activation rules are changing in DW2.5

11 minutes ago, varnos said:

That "focusing lens" on the front makes me really curious how the assembly works,

The blog says it's a Target Painter gen.

EDIT: This is what I get for multitasking forum posting and cooking dinner- an entire thread springs up while I'm not looking!

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Loving this dialogue!

So glad you icy devils are so excited! As per Mr. Thamoz's selection, I hope this little spoiler keeps the excitement going!

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f66o9jww7o0ayie/AABpWiTyjzmQXZbvAnGtIC1fa?dl=0

Sorry I couldn't post a direct imagine. I am having some troubles posting up images and as the Super Bowl is minutes away from kickoff... I just don't have the extra seconds to spare!

Happy Hunting everyone!

-Mike

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Thanks Mike!

I am really liking that combat coordinator! My main opponent already dislikes my Zenos and Thales, I am sure he will be thrilled when that comes powering up the table with them! :D Also happy that specialist defences will make it just a bit more durable after it has thrown its robots onto enemy ships.

 

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Just reread the rules to double check the wording of sustained assault and the boarding rules. I was a little worried that sustained assault might work like sustained fire does for linking attacks. It does not :D So each model with the MAR gets the reroll for its assault group. So 5 Thales would potentially have 5 rerolls.

I am sure we all knew this, but I wanted to be sure. CoA boarding; if at first you don't succeed, write up the results in a peer reviewed journal then send in the death robots again!

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Excellent! 

Glad that little tidbit found you guys well, as you are some serious logical and veteran critics, it does me good to see some perk from you all!

I made some recent modifications to the vessels, one of which is a strong series of changes to the Assault Battleship that I feel will really work a lot better with the rest of the fleet and the models that would like to accompany it, although it does go contrary to my original story text a bit which absolutely guts me!

:wacko:

-Mike

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9 minutes ago, Nazduruk_Bugzappa said:

That sort of thing can happen. The Epicurus went through a number of changes to its Launch Turret. It went from an additional weapon (using drones as ammunition) to being an extended relaunch range, to its current function of hood-ornament.

I miss the drone flechette cannon.

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Ooooh, stats are up. Looks like we get two choices: First, the very sensible MkI, for winning wars and looking like a normal family when the in-laws come to visit. Second, the MkII, which CoA R&D knocked together after too much brandy and everyone's pet research project bolted on. Personally, I love having that choice.

For the MkI, I was pretty much correct on weapons. MARs... I mentioned most of them but certainly wasn't expecting all of them. It's the price of a normal 'light' BB, so will feature in a good chunk of lists just for that reason, and opens up some new possibilities for list building based on more mediums and smalls. With 8" move, AE(+2") and TFgen, it can move up to 14" on a good turn, which is fast enough to really make use of Hit and Run... and get away from at least some of the boarding threats against it. Shooting-wise, it's not going to set the world on fire, but I suspect it will do pretty well against medium squadrons that aren't expecting a pop-up battleship out of nowhere.

The Mk II, meanwhile... every fun toy under the sun. Combat Coordinator, Target Painter, Guardian Generator... and an Energy Blast weapon. Looks set up to support Corvettes and Frigates, and possibly Cleomedes Cruisers. The Guardian and Combat Coordinator in particular make the MkII a tempting model to pair with Corvettes- protect them on the way in, then significantly increase their boarding ability once they get in range. Can't wait to give it a try on the table.

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10 hours ago, draco84oz said:

It wasn't a fletchette cannon - going by the design of the turret, it was probably closer in design to a railgun. 

Phfft.  Everyone knows drones are made from failed hope and broken dreams.  It may have shot like a railgun but by the time the drone arrived on target it was just a fast moving clump of debris.

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As Thamoz main opponent I can confirm that I am not looking forward to meeting the MK2. I imagine it paired with Zenos and Thales and between them sinking one large, PAing smalls and boarding another large in one activation...

For Queen and country...

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I don't play Convent but my brother does so sorry if i missed something but i want to ask before this comes up in game. Does the Energy Blast weapon on the MK II still take the half dice penalty for being wave lurked? I know if it notes raised then it doesn't and lowered it does take the penalty but blast isn't noted either.

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3 minutes ago, pothoc said:

I don't play Convent but my brother does so sorry if i missed something but i want to ask before this comes up in game. Does the Energy Blast weapon on the MK II still take the half dice penalty for being wave lurked? I know if it notes raised then it doesn't and lowered it does take the penalty but blast isn't noted either.

Judging from the position on the very top I would assume it is unaffected and fires at full dice.  That's only going on looks though.

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19 minutes ago, Veldrain said:

Judging from the position on the very top I would assume it is unaffected and fires at full dice.  That's only going on looks though.

That is what I was thinking but hoping for an "official" ruling. In my little group that is how we will probably do it but if a rules layer come up we all know how that can turn for the worse.

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Technically, only specifically 'lower' weapons are partially blocked.

1 minute ago, Nazduruk_Bugzappa said:

As an indiscriminate weapon, it won't be affected by wavelurking

I swear I remember Indiscriminate weapons not being affected by partially blocked, but I cannot find it in the rulebook.

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3 hours ago, Sebenko said:

Technically, only specifically 'lower' weapons are partially blocked.

I swear I remember Indiscriminate weapons not being affected by partially blocked, but I cannot find it in the rulebook.

Sebenko on page 141 it says that they ignore "All To-Hit Modifiers". How can you tell if the weapon is indiscriminate because I don't see where it is a template or noted as indiscriminate?

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