Jump to content
Sniddy

What DOES 2017 hold

Recommended Posts

Are they, I did not know that:o this is more than likely sending out mixed messages, really to look forward, many things need to be done, firstly to help stop confusing people especially new customers, The uncharted seas section of the forum and shop should probably be removed, how can everyone move forward with one foot constantly in the past:)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Spartan Mike said:

@Frans thanks for taking the time to fire up your own sermon! A good one too. Honestly it's tragicly familiar, but I am happy recieve the frustrations and anecdotes, as it's the only way I (being a new comer to trying to help) can attempt change anything, even if you understandably doubt it, but whatever, I can't expect anything out of such base disappointment.

And I would like to take this moment to explicatly illustrate a key factor in my dealings and efforts here. Firstly I don't really think anyone is directly lying to anyone, but while I cannot speak for them or whatever situations you are insinuating, I sure as heck know I plan on avoiding such. Lies are bad. Never touch the stuff!

Second and more importantly, I am not in any way saying that the negetivity on the forums is the cause of the problems here or with the past. It's reactive, repetitive and progressing in intensity, but it's all reactive. I am merely saying it doesn't help and gives the whole thing a worse look and I just ask it gets mellowed out a bit. Wanting to get change is great, part of that change would hopefully having fun new people to interact with, while the situations of the past might be cause for your anger and strong degree of the repulsion, some of the nasty chatter here just needs to tone down. It's just an effort to try to work on things, again not some witch hunt. So please stop pigeonholing my efforts.

All the best guys!

-Mike

Well, when the first new thing in a while get hyped up, then immediately dropped (*cough*Amber*cough*), it's doesn't help the positive message. I want to think none of us want a negative outlook; I remember a couple of years ago I was more than happy to say what a great company Spartan was. Nowadays? I don't mention Spartan, except for where to get the rules. Simply put: We want to get along; it's up to Spartan Games (or in this case, you, Spartan Mike as their representative) to make the first move in fixing that relationship. You've made a good first step, but follow up is needed. At this point, maybe some of the proposed rule changes, new renders, maybe some hints on the new Terran ship shown a while back, something to at least whet our appetite for news, other than " Big news at Adepticon" and "August 2017 folks!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/4/2017 at 11:10 PM, CorroPredo said:

Can you still buy the ships? I see them on the Spartan web site. Contrary to popular belief you don't have to be on the forums to play the game. 

 

 ucs pdfs with rules and stats were taken down     around dec7[see dec 7 post, ucs forum] if not b4 as that is when i noticed it. also i didnt see ucs models for sale in the

shop altho i might have missed em. so if you have ucs you game with what you have and enjoy it............its just the game can no longer grow or draw in new players.  the end of the line might have been handled better.

most folks dont forum anymore there when the ucs forum went mostly dark[at least those that regularly posted] .agreed it probably does need to be removed, as it is indeed a painful reminder.

 

didnt mean to derail the train, sorry :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wasn't going to weigh in here, but I find myself in the uncomfortable position of agreeing with people that I normally am on opposite sides of things with.  So here we go...

Using your own analogy Mike, you waded into a den of starving lions, but brought nothing to actually feed them.  Only a demand that they must express their starvation in more constructive ways.  I do think you can see why that might not be well received by said den of lions.  

I live in Canada.  There is not a store within 100 kilometers of me that will touch Spartan games anymore.  Suppliers got tired of routine delays and issues, and because of them, demand dropped off.  So it is fantastically expensive to ship things in, making it harder to get a player interested in the game.  There were two of us that pushed like hell to get the game to take off.  Got some traction too.  But then the game idles for a year or more.  Again.  Current players drift away, and new players decide to go find another game with regular support.  

One of our largest fleets in the area was just liquidated off on Thursday.  We're talking about a 4000 point fleet sold off for a few hundred bucks because the player saw no real future in the game.  So that's the loss of one of the players I'd have sworn blind was a pillar of the game, and would always be around to pick it back up.  Not a great sign!  

I don't want you to reassure me, we're well past that point.  The abandonment of games for long stretches has become so common now it's honestly really sad.  It's not the first time, the second, or even the third time that the game has been set aside.  And what's worse, if you look at Spartan as a whole, and not just Firestorm Armada, it is constantly happening.  Any time a game gets focus, it's at the expense of another.  DW is going nuts?  Whelp, nothing on FA for a while.  FA gets the love? Check the DW sections, they'll be asking the same questions that we have been.  

I want to see something happen.  Actually a lot of somethings.  Taking one of the above points about Amber.  Looked good.  But then Spartan decided it needed a DW kickstarter, and nothing moved.  Taskforce was going to be a stepping stone to get more people into the game.  But we're how long now after release without the actual rules being available, despite constant promises that such is going to happen?  I don't need a hotlinked polished PDF, I'd settle for a scan of the rules being on the site so that they can be used!  Time was taken to set up stats for the patrol fleets of the core races, but nothing to get the main rules out?  Help me understand.  Or better yet, don't, we're past that point.  

You can't get a hype train moving without something to pull it.  And I know that me personally, and form the look of it, a number of others on this board, are tired of trying to push it for Spartan when the engine isn't even running.

If you want to help dissipate the negativity, start building more rapport, getting people interested in things again, then give us a dam.ned reason.  Going back to your starving lions analogy.  Feed them.  Even just a little, something that's been promised, a show that things are actually happening.  

I'm pretty sure it's not your direct responsibility for these things, so I don't hold you responsible for the lack of progress from Spartan.  But you opted to hop into the lions.  So I will hold you responsible for showing up, giving us the same vague promises that things will be different this if only we wait longer.  But we've no reason to trust you, which you yourself have admitted.  

So give me a reason to trust you.  Give us ALL a reason to trust you.  You wouldn't have this many people bent if we didn't want things to go right.  We want this system to evolve and go forward.  We want this company to succeed, so they can bring more and more to gaming.  

But we are so so tired of being told that it'll just be a little longer.  And a little becomes a lot, and then no one has any idea what's going on.  

So don't tell me it's all around the corner.  Heard it before, done hearing it.  If you don't have something concrete, something to offer this group of fine disgruntled gentlefolk, then I don't know why you've stepped into the lions den.  From what I can see, the greatest effect your stepping in has done is to spark the very kind of responses that espouse the kind of bitter detractment that you hope to minimize.  

Sorry for the long wind of that.  

 

Best Regards,

Rage of Aeons

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing wrong with any of it. I get everything you have mentioned, and as I have illustrated in the similar thread of the PF forum (literally minute ago) I expected the doubt and again put out my efforts to communicate who I am and how I hope to help. 

I have been on this rollercoaster for mere days. My eagerness as a long time player of all things SG has empowered me to jump in the den and get to work bridging the gap. Don't think for a minute that I did it expecting anything less than getting torn to shreds! I hope it helps people feel a bit better watching the coliseum get coated in blood! Someone mentioned popcorn before... so at least it's a bit entertaining? ;)

Yes it's all words, but I have just set out to work! Have some fun blogs out, and have enjoyed some spoilers for Dwars being posted etc. not much yet! But it's early for me chief. And I am not the primary effort towards Armada. Although I admit, I wanna help it along as best as I can. Hence my postings and effort here. 

So as I move into the second week of my efforts with Spartan, hopefully I can muster some more concrete solutions for your hunger. Cause there would be nothing more satisfying to me personally than to throw you all some real meat and get the pack purring again!

But don't ever tell me not to try, cause to be honest it would be a waste of your efforts. Cause I plan on doing a lot more than trying for you all. 

Thanks again for taking the time to voice your constructive and passionate opinion. I can assure you, I take it very personally and seriously.

All the best

-Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Spartan Mike said:

And I am not the primary effort towards Armada.

So what is your primary effort, and will Firestorm Armada (rumored to be the top overall Spartan Games revenue stream) be the primary effort for somebody?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for venturing into the Lion's Den, @Spartan Mike.  We, the players of Spartan Games, now need to give you a little time to prove yourself.  With that in mind, a few helpful suggestion that Spartan can take to give something concrete for us FSA players confidence. I hope you pass off to management the next time you talk:

  1. Post the Firestorm Taskforce PDF!  Seriously.  It can't be that hard to PDF the document and add to the download section of the website.  It has been promised repeatedly and you will get little credit for posting it, but you will get some.  Trust is built in steps. Give us this little step.
  2. Release Daedalus Space Station rules before the model releases later this month.  Too many people have been burned by models with no rules, which should never happen again.
  3. How about taking a few minutes out of FSA 3.0 production time for some FSA 2.0 Errata.  A few choice questions can be found in this thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Basically, the rest of 2017 needs to happen. It's a "make or break" year for the Firestorm franchise.

3 hours ago, alextroy said:

Thanks for venturing into the Lion's Den, @Spartan Mike.  We, the players of Spartan Games, now need to give you a little time to prove yourself.

Absolutely. None of us have lived any further than February 2017 at this point. Let the weeks and months develop, and let's see what happens in those weeks and months.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rage really sums up what A lot of us have faced

We are probably your more vocal players. and we've probably tried to drive this game locally

I've tried to big up invasion fleets, taskforce...planetfall

I can't anymore

Most players look at whats happening and are either downgrading or not expanding fleets or armies, and as nothing changes they're using the same old things and they see all the time and effort go onto Halo and DW and basically say - nah we'll play something else.

Teasers in March for things we won't see till later, topped by rules in August that most people....no longer care about, I think I'll struggle to get traction again as they'll basically go 'ohh yeh this will be like Invasion fleets/taskforce, never supported or revisted - or worse like planetfall and we'll see nothing till 2018 or gone'

I can't see how I can save armada locally - I really don't - planetfall maybe MKII and allied helixs, I could get some people back round, I feel Armada would have to be something special in the rules change, and the way taskforce bombed....I don't know, it's one of my favourite games but, really I think I'll struggle 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's nothing that far wrong with Armada. It doesn't need a stellar special change in rules for it to be mega. It needs pushing and support from SG and the Vanguards. The Vanguards do a great job but when it's not backed up by SG themselves, it can really make it hard to get the game going. Even in it's current form it's still one of the best games out there - and it won't take much to make it even better. PF is by far the weaker game and that needs some serious work in V2.

Quote

Most players look at whats happening and are either downgrading or not expanding fleets or armies, and as nothing changes they're using the same old things and they see all the time and effort go onto Halo and DW and basically say - nah we'll play something else.

The issue I've spotted with how SG expands is that it does it in big chunks. This means we get our hit in one big go (Taskforce boxsets gave us THREE possible units in one go in ONE box!). Good in some perspectives but bad over the long term. Most companies expand with a little bit for a few factions at a time. Infinity for example releases maybe one or two guys per faction at a time, or sometimes just for one or two factions. I'd prefer this route for SG. It would be cheaper for the customer and retailer for a start. As an ex-SG trader getting their systems in can be expensive due to everything being in box sets. It also means less customisation for players who maybe need just 1 or 2 Cruisers instead of 3. They should have stuck to blisters but in sensible numbers (i.e 1 ship per blister or 3 per blister, not 2).

I'm still hopeful and I think this year will be the crunch test but it's going to be tough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, gr1mdan said:

The issue I've spotted with how SG expands is that it does it in big chunks. This means we get our hit in one big go (Taskforce boxsets gave us THREE possible units in one go in ONE box!). Good in some perspectives but bad over the long term. Most companies expand with a little bit for a few factions at a time. Infinity for example releases maybe one or two guys per faction at a time, or sometimes just for one or two factions. I'd prefer this route for SG. It would be cheaper for the customer and retailer for a start. As an ex-SG trader getting their systems in can be expensive due to everything being in box sets. It also means less customisation for players who maybe need just 1 or 2 Cruisers instead of 3. They should have stuck to blisters but in sensible numbers (i.e 1 ship per blister or 3 per blister, not 2).

Agreed! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with everything that has been said so far and I would also say that most of all the retailers in the US and Canada are NOT stocking Spartan's FSA because it takes so long to get them from England. example I ordered Terran frigate group and several other items back in November of 2016 and they are just coming in now in dribs and drabs. it is now February 2017.  How can we as a group expan the game that we love if we can't get what we need. It is time sink or swim the ball is in your court.  I will continue to try to get people interested in the game but not like I use to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I got into Spartan Games, I bought a lot of ships. I really liked the design at that time, and was interested by the number of factions available. That number is, quite frankly even now, still good and the game could stop having new ships and still be successfulL. The game mechanics were solid, even if "bigger" games were taking quite a lot of time and moving ships could be sometimes very tricky when there is a huge cluster of ships in the middle of the board (not talking about 3D terrain).

I must admit that now, I slowly moved away from Firestorm Armada - and Spartan Games in general. Too many broken promises, too much wait, not enough love for retailers, having more and more difficulty to order news products (and more time so that it actually comes), some troubles with orders not having everything and then having a pain to have the missing components back...it was always something little, one at a time and just having a "oh it happens" feeling, but they kept adding to the pile until it became a "ok, now that's getting annoying" feeling.

I also have some wondering about how actually Spartan Games employees are treated, sometimes - passion is good, but it's still work and needs to be rewarded with a proper salary. Volunteers are...well, a delicate thing, especially when so many things seem to be on their shoulders (rules, seriously?). Yes, it matters in this age for some people. But I digress.

The real thing that made me out is that outside of UK, Spartan Games is now nearly inexistent. It's clear to me that everything is centered in the UK - and the UK only. Outside of this, games are really hard to get. The Brexit won't be making things easier either. Retailers outside of UK are really having it hard, and my main shop for Spartan Games just dropped all of their products because the manager wasn't selling enough...and was having too much trouble to have them in times, when the online shop gives so many bundles that he can't compete. Like, at all. Of course, with no official place to gather and play, no need to say the community took a deep hit as well.

I'm hearing the promises. But now, I will only judge on what I see is done. No more waiting in expectation. And no more money for "new projects" that left a bad taste in my mouth (yes, I was stupid enough to believe in that Taskforce thing...Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me).

For now, SG's focus is on Dystopian Wars. I don't expect anything for Firestorm Universe for at least a whole year. That's the conclusion I've made so far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our problem is that my community is full of amazing people and we simply can't find another game that satisfies our needs like FSA does, but the lack of releases and any sort of news has just meant we carry on playing with what we have and pray to the Star Gods that one day - we'll get new stuff (That hopefully isn't a mix of OP/Useless Taskforce ships)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DFC is well off our list, even my stalwart Hawk loving friends have sold their stuff as they really hate the style of game. I've given it a go and it doesn't scratch my space playing itch at all sadly. Models are pretty nice but way too complex for what it is.

Gameplay wise FSA is much more what we prefer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately I can't really fathom how hard it is for you guys but I wish it wasn't!!! It would help immensely towards growing their systems again. Once upon a time I remember DWars being in every war games shop I went in and I heard it was similar in the US. Now I very rarely see any Spartan stock in stores or at gaming conventions (we have LOTS in the UK and I go to most of the big ones).

Numbers must be telling so they must know about it, I just hope Kickstarter isn't their answer to it as stores are still vital for games IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, gr1mdan said:

I just hope Kickstarter isn't their answer to it as stores are still vital for games IMO.

I totally agree. To my mind, stores and clubs are vital to the continuation and expansion of a game, post the initial Kickstarter rush.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My LGS used to carry Armada with a pretty good selection and got in all the Planetfall stuff we wanted in the initial release.  Since then, both have been dropped.  It wasn't so much lack of sales (though that was definitely an issue), but the fact that their main distributors were always either out of stock or back-ordered.  Competition from Spartan's own web store didn't help either, with specials that the store couldn't afford to match.  Though shipping from the UK takes a while, we'd often club up and put in a group order when a sale was on.  In any case, between issues with getting in stock and sales, it couldn't justify it's shelf space any more.  Now we have to go to an online vendor.  While the LGS has no issues with us playing with our stuff, they certainly don't push the game to new customers as there's no benefit to them.  Basically the only time Spartan gets exposure now is on Sundays when we happen to be playing, which isn't even every week as there's lots of other games we play as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Paladin21 I used to manage a FLGS and we were massive stockists of Spartan at one point, and sold it too. It was one of our biggest games in the shop for a long time (mainly because I absolutely loved it and pushed it a lot). We started by going through a distributor (Trolltrader aka Kingsley Distribution) but they slowly ended up not having stock and Spartan were very slow at restocking them (got significantly worse after Halo Fleet releases) to the point where we had to go direct to Spartan. Then we struggled when customers were ordering direct from Spartan due to their epic sales, although they are not the only company to do this either, I believe Warlord and Mantic do heavy sales and deals.

Since the store I worked for went bust, we have no Spartan stockists within 40 miles. My local gaming store, Sanctuary Gaming, aren't interested at all in getting it in, despite having a 4-6 man strong community who'd easily spend a few hundred quid a month if toys were on show. As it stands, we just turn up and play in a corner and folk just walk past :(
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had hoped to get in on the Beta of the rules, but won't be able to due to the requirements listed.  Between a full time job, part time job, taking PhD classes, having a newborn, and playing more games than just Spartan stuff, there's no way I can commit to one game a week with pictures and a batrep.  I hope everyone who does get in actually has their feedback taken seriously, and I hope that they'll at least ask for periodic commentary from the community at large on the developmental rules.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.