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Benchpresser

Finally went for it...

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Well,

Took the plunge and pledge Admiral of the Fleet.  So now.. brainstorming time. My original idea for models was for the Ottomans but that is likely be on hold since I don't know what SG has in store for them- also thinking about Russians.
I definitely want to go with 2 mediums, and am thinking Aerial since that's where the Russians lack a lot of choices.  I already have an idea for 1 of the air ships, but looking for ideas for the 2nd.  I am thinking a heavier gunship to compliment the Saransk- something with 2 smaller turrets (akin to the new naval medium turret) up front and some modest broadsides, but it seems too... plain?

I'm also kicking the idea around of a low level flyer with Mortars?  idea being hug the terrain (islands) throwing out mortar barrages and then pop up full height to engage the enemy air force?

So.. any ideas.. I'll toss it out to the community....

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4 minutes ago, richomack88 said:

Ruskies aye?

Submarine with a drill?

Bomber with special munitions that literally freeze a target?

A partridge amongst the pigeons?

Well done on backing!

Kinda--- I'm thinking a Air ship with a giant drill on front.  Diving out of the sun from stratospheric and ramming other airships :D

 

Still trying to come up with a 2nd.

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What about a medium mine layer. But to make it interesting,  and more Russian, it has some mines and a short range glacier generator, 1 or 2 power. Use it to box them in and control their movement. And they get to pick what they run into.

Not sure for looks. External generator below, ice built up on the wings.

 

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Hmm, it's an interesting challenge. The Russians either have fixed wing aircraft with the big...dome thing on the front, or the stolen Covenant designs. I'd be more tempted to run with the Covenant "flying ship" look than the fixed wing look for non-bombers. 

So my first suggestion would be for your drill ship, make it look like a Saransk ('skyship') with a big-ass underslung drill, rather than a zeppelin air-ship design. Better for ramming, and stays with current Russian themes. (Plus, I think it would just look cooler!)

My second idea was an assault ship. Like, a Saransk that plays like a corvette. In the sky. But maybe you just have high assault stats on the driller, since it's right up in their face anyway.

So then my third idea riffs on your gunship idea. But it occurs to me...I don't recall any factions with an aerial battlecruiser. A 1-ship squadron, sort of over-gunned for a medium chassis. Take the Skyship chassis, or something similar to it, put one of the Azov's guns on top and then one on either side of the lower hull, replacing broadsides. That's a ton of forward firepower and a decent amount of side firepower. Or maybe use 3x Saransk or Tambov guns, so it doesn't outshoot the Tunguska? That feels like a very Russian expansion of the Skyship concept to me.

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3 hours ago, Abakus said:

Hmm, it's an interesting challenge. The Russians either have fixed wing aircraft with the big...dome thing on the front, or the stolen Covenant designs. I'd be more tempted to run with the Covenant "flying ship" look than the fixed wing look for non-bombers. 

So my first suggestion would be for your drill ship, make it look like a Saransk ('skyship') with a big-ass underslung drill, rather than a zeppelin air-ship design. Better for ramming, and stays with current Russian themes. (Plus, I think it would just look cooler!)

My second idea was an assault ship. Like, a Saransk that plays like a corvette. In the sky. But maybe you just have high assault stats on the driller, since it's right up in their face anyway.

So then my third idea riffs on your gunship idea. But it occurs to me...I don't recall any factions with an aerial battlecruiser. A 1-ship squadron, sort of over-gunned for a medium chassis. Take the Skyship chassis, or something similar to it, put one of the Azov's guns on top and then one on either side of the lower hull, replacing broadsides. That's a ton of forward firepower and a decent amount of side firepower. Or maybe use 3x Saransk or Tambov guns, so it doesn't outshoot the Tunguska? That feels like a very Russian expansion of the Skyship concept to me.

Abakus you and I are thinking along similar lines.  For the Driller I started with the Saransk body, chopped off the prow and added a giant single drill.  (I'll scan the drawings tomorrow) My inspiration was the "drill missile" from the old Star Blazers anime.  I originally drew it with 3 smaller drills working in concert but thought there would be a bigger chance of the ship "catching" on it's victim and crashing with them.  I dropped the single Fore Turret and drew in fixed Fore guns around the circumference of the drill.  

Since we will be designing our model but not the rules- I can't really say about the AP values- but I would at least make it akin to the Myshkin.  Definitely give it Straospheric Flyer and Hull Breaker!

I had similar thoughts on the gunship as well.  It occurred to me that the RC air force is very Fore arc heavy also momentum-limited.  What I mean is running up against a aerial force more maneuverable (like say the Sharp Turning EotBS)  they have to rely on their armor to keep them safe as they swing round to bring the target back into the 270 degree front arc- or stagger their forces to protect each others rear.  This may be ok in Europe facing Zeppelins or under-gunned Rotorcraft- but the more operations they take in the Far East- the more the Blazing Sun will run rings around them.

So I'm thinking a Saransk chassis with several of the new smaller turrets from the Onega.  Say 2 on the front (1 with a raised turret so they can both turn broadside) and maybe 1 aft, with some modest broadside cannons as well.   Mix them in with your Saransks and your opponent will be under almost constant bombardment from any angle....

 

 

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If you want an interesting idea for inspiration, did you know that if you place two Krichev hulls side-by-side, the two mounting-points exactly match the 50mm×50mm firestorm armada twin-peg base?

Your flyer could simply be a "double bomber" using existing parts, and only needing modeling done on a "bridging piece"

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Russian aerial units, you say...a topic close to my own heart!

 

My first idea would be an Aerial medium carrier - a baby Sky Fortress. Since the fluff forbids Sky Fortresses/Mobile Airfields to the RC but doesn't offer anything to fill that hole in the OrBat, I would propose a medium flying unit with the Carrier (4) MAR and a squadron size of 1-2. The Russians get their SAS without "wasting" a large hull on the effort.

 

Secondly, I like both the flying drill and flying gunship ideas, although the Onega turret looks exactly like the single-barrel turret already found on the Saransk - so just add more of them! A generator-based Medium flyer could be interesting...

 

I look forward to hearing more from you, sir!

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I'm not sure if there is more info out somewhere, but so far it looks like the only way to deploy the new tiny driller bases is from the Murmansk, which will have very limited availability let alone being cost prohibitive in most games (I imagine).  I've been thinking a medium flyer with squadron support would be an awesome way to deploy them, especially if they can be used on land.  I think the tiny drillers are the best part of the new Russian forces.  Love the idea of an aerial driller though, maybe have the Aerial driller deploy the tiny drillers? or a carrier 4 like said above with no weapons but squadron support (few tiny driller bases).  Anyway good luck and I'm excited your going for Russian aerial, that's what I woulda done if I could swing fleet admiral right now, thanks.

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Nazdyryk, that gives me an idea for a large- bolt 2 Kirchev hulls side by side... in the middle.. a "bridging" area dropping assault subs?  Also underslung each Hull bolt a Tambov turret?

I may not like the RC's 'ban' on Mobile airfields but I'll respect it.

I've attached a rough drawing (using MS paint, sorry for my horrid graphic skills lol) for my driller idea- basicvally a big Drill with some fore guns- maybe bomb bay in back as well?

Also.. uh.. dhf3.. WHAT Tiny driller bases from the Murmansk???????

RC Aerial Drill.png

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The Russian side of the new Kickstarter 2 player starter set.  They are shown in the render for the Russian half of it, but none of the ships in their appear to be able to deploy them.  They look like tiny flyer tokens on the left side of the image.  The Murmansk has them all over so I assumed that's where they are deployed from.  Love the concept for your aerial driller, looks like a big "sky submarine". Definitely adds something unique to our air ORBAT without giving us something with a weapon system besides guns and bombs.  Actually that makes me think of the CF bomber which is an air bombard, and mortar's are kinda our thing too.

And don't sweat your MS Paint skills, that's what your paying Spartan the big bucks for!!

 

Edit (again) Copy of the Murmansk info from the Kickstarter page-

 

Murmansk Fleet Operations VesselThis amazing Russian Coalition vessel may not be as big as her rival, but at 135mm across she still has plenty of impact on a tabletop. designed to support fleet operations, the Murmansk is primarily a repair vessel, but she is also armed to the teeth! Supported by three of her own Escorts, the Murmansk can also launch up to 8 bases loaded with Kavkaz Drillers whichy can board enemy models. The Murmansk model costs £25.

bfa9f1830337ec79f5c227f9bbd1d655_origina
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That will teach me not to read EVERY update!!!!!!

 

Thanks for the input guys.  Originally I envisioned the Driller as diving out of the Sun at targets so I wanted it to have Stratospheric- BUT if stratospheric is becoming more accessible in 2.5 then Yes, Low Level Flyer fits it better!  Also Hull Breaker obviously....

 

Those Kavkaz Drillers give me a great idea for a Fixed winged "gunship".....hopefully we'll have access to themn once we get into our CAD time...

 

 

P.S.-     What if we give it Squadron Support drillers (4) along with Low Level Flyer...That's one hell of a boarding threat.

Edited by Benchpresser
Another thought@
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An alternative to a flying carrier is something like a flying air superiority cruiser. I'm envisioning something bristling with small guns that could sail into a aerial formation and lay down clouds of flak and machine gun fire. Instead of a lot of large guns, this ship would have even more small emplacements!

I'm having trouble figuring out exactly what the rules for this would look like, though. Heavy Ack Ack definitely. But since there's no way to have multiple AA profiles, I can't think of how you'd be able to split fire between SAS squadrons. Ideally, it would also have enough firepower to be useful in clearing enemy smalls or putting some pain on a medium. Hunter?

I also don't know if this is distinct enough from the interceptor. 

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Here's my idea for a fixed-wing Gunship- subtlety the Russian way!  (Not sure on this one but a work in progress!)

Take the Kirchev hull, shrink them a bit and put 2 side by side with a bridge in the middle.   Over-gun it as usual, with fore guns and double barrel turrets.  Then add the thing that's been bugging me - Russia has ONE model with an external Generator and there isn't even a bit for it!
So create a Glacial generator bit, and mount it behind and above the Bridge.
Finally... just to be really subtle.. a Mishkyn style Bomb- a bit smaller under slung in the middle.

Idea being the gunship would jam the steering and or engine of a target before making it's attack run... blasting it with cannon before dropping a rather large bomb as a goodbye present....

Give it Glacial Gen 2 (so it can jam steering), Momentum and Concussive ammo guns.....

Fixed Wing Generator 2.png

Fixed Wing Generator.png

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You could certainly be forgiven for missing the tiny drillers bit, took me a good 10 minutes to find the part I copy and pasted.  Also thinking more maybe there could  be some bays or something incorporated into the model to show it's ability to deploy them but it def should be something that can be added for a cost like the LOIS cruisers can add the torpedo boat squadron support, that way the big driller isn't dead weight in an aerial only game or land game if they end up not being usable on land. ( I hope they are, would love to see the tiny drillers be multipurpose diving and burrowing like the Arronax used to be, if not it would prbly  be preferable for them to be multipurpose diving since burrowing slows them quite a bit and naval is more popular over all) I know Spartan will have the final say on stats, and I'm not sure what your envisioning for size, but if it's the same as the Saransk and squadron size 2-3 then sq. support 4 may be a bit much, 12 bases even at 1 ap and no Terror Tactics is still prbly overly powerful. ( Depending on how much they butcher boarding in 2.5, I think boarding is perfect the way it is now, more complex than another auxiliary weapon with a 4 inch range like it basically feels in fleet action, a powerful and useful tool for most factions, and really the strongest weapon for at least 2 factions, so they better be careful  they don't mess with it too much.  Also my 10  and 12 year old kids picked it up in about 10 minutes, so not sure why it's felt overly complex)

 

I know your wanting to go with 2 mediums, but after seeing the COA small flyer today I can't help but think of a Russian knock-off with the attachment rule (Air or Surface) and good AA plus 360 move to help with our poor escort options and poor AA on everything.

 

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Okay looks like the paragraph I wrote about the gunship was eaten, so here go's again.

Really like the gunship idea and the idea of having another flying glacier gen, but feel like all the systems are pushing it into the "small" large size category.  It has everything the Krichev has plus turrets and a generator. Also with an external generator maybe it could be made to be swappable, possibly with a weak guardian gen which we also lack.  Not sure if the fore guns are piercing if they can link with turrets, if not or to help with balance maybe make them more of a broadside configuration to help with finding  targets after you fly past the enemy fleet following a bombing run.  Also if some systems are reduced maybe it could be made a little faster, would be very useful to have a 12" ish inch move glacier gen we could start effecting movement turn 2 or 1 with advance deploy. 

 

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The cramming of too much into one unit could be an issue.    Here's some things to think of. 

Is this going to be a squad unit. As in more than one per squad.  If so your going to have to tone the individual gen values and make sure a sqaud of them isn't super hard.  If it's meant to be a squad of 1 (ie heavy bomber) then you so working into it and feel it might be better as a larger.    

A friend of mine also pledged admiral of the fleet and I was helping with his design. Initially he wanted to make a pair of mediums but we started working with ideas and what he wanted worked so much better as a large unit other than the lone big medium he was orginally thinking. I liked his choice as it made the load out make more sense if the mode was made a large. 

 

Hos idea for reference is a steampunk version of the WWI/WWII monitors. One really big gun some secondary armament and something unique. 

He liked the quad barreled royal oak turret as the big gun. The big gun the unique thing he wants just  fit better on a large. Especially given since it's the same turret and using the same AD spread.  

 

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You guys are reading my mind.  When I was sketching that up yes it felt like a small Large.. which is not what I want.

What I am thinmking is drop the bomb entirely, and drop the fore guns.  I still want to see if a small "Medium sized" dual hull look can be achieved just because I think it looks cool.

I do want to keep the generator but I may bow to RC design and suggest an internal Generator.  

What do you think of dropping the double-barrelled Tambov turrets and going for 4 single barrel turrets, 1 top and bottom of each Hull?  Just make it a pure shooty gunship with a possible Generator?

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Enjoying these ideas so-far, I agree that the Russians need more air love, and I definitely think the Russians need more flying boats with giant cogwheels like the Saransk and Tunguska. We are, after all, one of the nations with access to hover-tech so we should make use of it. And I too want to caution that we should try to stick with "less is more" when it comes to armaments and such. It is easy to get carried away and design a unit without weaknesses that in turn needs to cost a lot of points to be fair.

The leading question I feel should be: "What do the Russians need?"

On the flying drill-ram ship I pondered what happens when trying to hit a battleship or a fortress, and I got the idea, "what if it could dive", that way it could avoid crashing! So every time you hit a surface target you had to switch to another mode. That would certainly be unique, but it would probably preclude having any other weapons besides the obvious. However, there is the potential problem that this flying drill does not appear to have a niche. Why would you chose it over other mediums like a Saransk that can shoot, or a Myshkin that has about the same life expectancy but with a powerful one-use bomb. An offensive generator would go a long way towards fixing this.

For the gunship, I am personally not a fan of the dual-hull thing. Besides, that's feels like a French or Italian gimmick while not having any precedent in the Russian force. I think that if we are going for a Russian designed vessel we should look first to the Tambov, and the Saransk for inspiration. A flying gunship should be to the Saransk what the Tambov is to the Suvorov. That, or if we want it to be a stolen CoA design then we pick one of their fliers and rough it up. A smaller version of the Epicurus could be ideal for this since we already have the Icarus and Daedalus, and if it can drop planes from its belly then it also fills the niche of being a medium flying assault carrier.

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I know its kind of weird, given the setting, but to me the flying drill ship breaks my sense of disbelief.  With all the other things I'm just not sure how that is the bit that does it, but it does.  Maybe a unit of smalls that can suicide themselves into other vessels, and get a bigger than usual amount of dice for it.

I also thought quite a few of the designs were heading into the kitchen sink territory.  Trying to fit everything you could want into a single ship.  When going for mediums and smalls, I tend to think of tight designs with one or two very specific tasks.  And with these being player made, unusual and "outside the norm" sorts of tasks.  A flying gunship just seems like the sort of thing Spartan will be making anyway.

 

And I have been thinking... what about a kinetic bomb.  Rather than explosive bombs, it is basically just a very large dart dropped from the skies, designed to simply smash into its target.  Treated like a bomb but rather than a normal area attack it is treated like a ram with a high IR rating (higher than the size of the dropping ship would normally have).  Maybe is a guaranteed hit at normal flying height, or hits on a 4+ when dropped from stratospheric but it has a higher IR then.  Might even be able to target other flying models, at least ones in the normal height band (and/or maybe only large+ or maybe medium+).  I would give it maybe 4-6 of these and can drop 1-2 a turn.  They could be modeled as very large spikes, or maybe drills, in clamps on the side of the ship.

 

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35 minutes ago, Benchpresser said:

So if we stick with the Saransk hull and drop the fixed wing idea I drew up something like this, but discarded it as.. too plain?

RC Aerial Gunship.png

Bit too Tunguska-y for me. The Tunguska is such a good unit it would probably overshadow most other units in performance and anything you design to rival it would be shaped to fight and fly like a Tunguska.

I had a thought - scorpion from mortal kombat crossed with a battleship. In essence a large drill Lance that fires out and drags the target towards your ship ready for the eager cossacks to board, all the while pounding it with concussive ammo?

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